Psalms37:4

And I'll be waving palm branches as well while I'm praising Him on that Day.

Doggone it, you beat me to the punch. Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord! Matthew 23:39 New King James Version (NKJV) for I say to you, you shall see Me no more till you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!’

I wanna bring up a topic on a particular bible translation not intended to be a debate but as a warning to all unfamiliar with this version of the bible, the Aramaic Bible in Plain English. However you guys can debate amongst yourselves, I could use a bump to keep this thread on the first page so more viewers are made aware. Dr. Rocco Errico is a near eastern theologian and Aramaic expert. He teaches from the Holy Bible, a translation from Aramaic to English by his mentor Dr. George Lamsa. He is the man in the video, the author and translator of the "Aramaic Bible in Plain English" translation in the video link below. While no one will argue that Jesus and his disciples spoke some Aramaic, and there is nothing wrong with the Aramaic language, the controversy lies in Errico's interpretation in the Aramaic bible which he translated himself, and in some degree, his understanding of the gospel as you'll see in the video. If you're wondering if Errico is teaching another gospel, that's precisely what he's doing with his Aramaic translation of the bible. Errico does not recognize Jesus' death on the cross as a redemption of our sin. Meaning there's no salvation for sin and that God does not punish us (God does not punish, God does not reward) if we remain in a sinful state. George M. Lamsa, Rocco A. Errico and the Aramaic Argument By: Dr. John Ankerberg, Dr. John Weldon; ©1999 The Aramaic argument claims that Jesus and the Apostles spoke and wrote in Aramaic, not in koine Greek. Translations from the Aramaic to Greek and then into English have left the Bible with “numerous errors,” which must be corrected by someone knowledgeable in the Aramaic language. Reduced to its simplest form, the Aramaic argument may be summarized as follows. Jesus and the Apostles not only spoke in Aramaic (a Semitic language similar to Hebrew, originally of the Syrian Aramaeans), they also wrote in Aramaic. Therefore, the original inspired writings of the Apostles were written in Aramaic, not in koine Greek. Translations from the Aramaic to Greek and then into English have left the Bible with “numerous errors,” which must be corrected by someone knowledgeable in the Aramaic language. Lamsa believed the original Aramaic text was the Syriac Peshitta, and thus he argued, “The Peshitta New Testament text varies considerably from the Greek and Latin versions which were made later for the use of new converts to Christianity. There are hundreds of passages where the meaning is different from that of the Greek version.”[1] Of course, everything depends on the assumption of the primacy of the Peshitta, an assumption we will show is false. Before beginning our analysis, we should point out that no one can lightly dismiss the influence of the Aramaic argument. For instance, Lamsa’s own translation of the Bible and many of his books are regularly found in evangelical bookstores. Lamsa’s translation is published by the A. J. Holman Company, a large publisher of Bibles and Christian books that is now Broadman and Holman. His New Testament has sold hundreds of thousands of copies. Lamsa himself wrote a score of books, among them Key to the Original Gospels; New Testament Origin; Idioms in the Bible Explained; The Hidden Years of Jesus; Gospel Light; Old Testament Light Commentary; and New Testament Commentary. Classes in “Aramaic and the Bible” are taught nationwide by various “Lamsa groups” and others with related interests. Despite all this, in considering his life’s work, four basic points should be stressed: Scholars reject the basic premise of Lamsa’s Aramaic originals. The evidence declares that the Aramaic texts were derived from Greek texts, not vice versa, and therefore the Peshitta is the one with translation errors. Lamsa was not the objective scholar he is made out to be; he ended his life in close agreement to many New Thought heresies (for example, he denied the deity of Christ and the atonement). Aramaic is used by more than a dozen cults to reject biblical doctrines, rather than to elucidate the meaning of the text. Nevertheless, Lamsa argued that the original Aramaic text of the Bible was the Syriac Peshitta, hence his magnum opus comprises an English translation of this document, titled The Holy Bible From Ancient Eastern Manuscripts. There are over a dozen new religious groups (such as Astara, Edgar Cayce study groups and Victor Paul Wierwille’s The Way) which make use of this Bible and Lamsa’s other writings to change the meaning of the biblical text into their own meanings. Lamsa and his co-workers are particularly adept at using an idiomatic argument to deny Scripture: many things in the Bible are (supposedly) mistranslated or misinterpreted because we do not understand Aramaic figures of speech. For over half a century certain scholars theorized about or attempted to make a case for Aramaic originals.[2] C. F. Burney, in The Aramaic Origin of the Fourth Gospel (Oxford, 1922), and C. C. Torrey, in The Four Gospels: A New Translation (1933) and Matthew Black in An Aramaic Approach to the Gospels and Acts (1946) are representative. Even though all attempts to discover Aramaic originals have failed,[3] George Lamsa was convinced he had succeeded, and his friend and confidant, Rocco A. Errico, broadcasts such information widely as a “fact.” Lamsa’s Errors In the introduction to his Bible, Lamsa claims that “Greek was never the language of Palestine” and that teaching it was forbidden by Jewish Rabbis. Elsewhere he says, “Paul did not write in Greek”; and “not a word of the Scriptures was originally written in Greek.” To the contrary, there is abundant evidence that Greek was one of the Palestinian languages, and all doubt has been removed concerning the Greek composition of the original New Testament. Not surprisingly then, historians like Dr. Edwin Yamauchi, a scholar from Miami University, Oxford, Ohio, points out that Lamsa was ignorant of basic facts.[4] Dr. Yamauchi observes that Lamsa stoops to misquoting Josephus’ Antiquities of the Jews xx.12.1 to support his beliefs. Lamsa claimed that Josephus argued that “hardly any” Jews succeeded in learning Greek and he quotes Josephus in the previous passage. But what Josephus actually said is that he, personally, did not attain precision in Greek pronunciation. Lamsa also misunderstood Jewish views about learning Greek in the Mishna, Talmud and Tosefta, which ban teaching Greek to children, not adults.[5] The fact that there are about 1,500 Greek loan words in Talmudic literature is evidence of knowledge of Greek among Rabbis. (Half of Rabbian Gamaliel’s students—500—studied Greek literature.[6]) In his article, “The Language of the New Testament,” J. H. Greenlee of Oxford University provides ample evidence for Greek as a known language in Palestine.[7] For example, when visiting Greeks wished to see Jesus (John 12:20-21), no indication is given that Philip had any problem in communication with them. Neither is there evidence that an interpreter was needed between Pilate and Jesus during His trial. Greenlee argues in detail why the “Aramaic argument” is wrong: It is unlikely that the Roman governor was conversant with Aramaic and even less likely that the Jews knew Latin. The logical assumption is that the entire discussion was carried on in Greek. Paul wrote his Epistle to the church at Rome in Greek, not in Latin or Aramaic. Even the Epistle “to the Hebrews” was written in Greek—indeed, in the most literary Greek of any book of the NT. It was in Greek that the Roman tribune and Paul conversed after the apostle had been rescued from the Jewish mob at the temple (Acts 21:37). Peter’s communication with the Roman centurion Cornelius and his friends (Acts 10) must have been in Greek, and likewise his sermon on the day of Pentecost. It is noteworthy that Greece is not included in the list of lands in whose (foreign) languages the disciples’ praises of God were being heard (Acts 2:5-11). At the same time, local languages were maintained alongside the use of Greek, just as scores of tribal languages are maintained today alongside Spanish, French, and other trade languages. This was clearly the case with the Jews and their use of Aramaic. The fact that certain Aramaic expressions are found in the Gospels… should not therefore be taken to mean that Jesus normally spoke in another language and interjected this Aramaic phrase for some special effect (though it could be thus interpreted if other evidence supported the hypothesis). It appears, rather, that they were words from expressions the NT writers chose to preserve in their original form because of their special significance or the significance of the events in connection with which they are used.[8] Nevertheless, Lamsa declared he was the only competent translator (hence interpreter) of the Bible, summarily dismissing all the exegetes of history! In More Light on the Gospel, he declared: “The author, through God’s grace, is the only one with the knowledge of Aramaic, the Bible customs and idioms, and the knowledge of the English language who has ever translated the Holy Bible from the original Aramaic texts into English and written commentaries on it.”[9] Before we consider specific theological errors from the writings of Lamsa (and Rocco Errico of the Noohra Foundation), we first note the conclusions of Dr. Edwin Yamauchi, a scholar whose academic background eminently qualifies him to assess Lamsa’s claims. Dr. Yamauchi is an authority on Mediterranean studies and a specialist in Mandaic, an Eastern Aramaic dialect and author of Mandaic Incantation Texts, 1967. The material below is excerpted from his article in Bibliotheca Sacra, “Greek, Hebrew, Aramaic or Syriac?: A critique of the claims of G. M. Lamsa for the Syriac Peshitta.” He begins by dismissing Lamsa’s premises, noting his grave errors in assigning authority to the views of the Assyrian Church of Iraq and the primacy of the Syriac Peshitta: It is in fact Lamsa’s faith in the dogma of the Assyrian Church of Iraq which he grandiosely calls “the Church of the East” which serves as the basis of his conviction in the superiority of the Syriac Peshitta Version…. The Syriac of the Peshitta is not the language of coastal Syria around Antioch, which was evangelized in the first century A.D., but of the area in the interior around Edessa, one hundred fifty miles from the coast, which was evangelized between A.D. 116 and 216…. No one but an unquestioning adherent of “The Church of the East” would subscribe to the legendary account of the apostolic roots of the Edessene church. In the light of the claims advanced by Lamsa for Syriac, it should be underlined that Syriac is an eastern and not a western dialect of Aramaic, and indeed that it is “a form of Aramaic that emerges toward the beginning of the third century A.D.” As such it is one of the least suitable of the Aramaic dialects to use for a reconstruction of the Jewish Palestinian Aramaic used by Jesus. As the basis of his translation Lamsa uses the Peshitta Version of the Old and the New Testaments, which serves as the “authorized version” for the Syrian Orthodox Church. The Peshitta was accepted as the official version before the split of the Syrian Church into the West Jacobite and the East Nestorian branches in the fifth century. The Peshitta Canon omitted 2 and 3 John, Jude, and Revelation, which Lamsa therefore translates from unidentified “later Aramaic texts.”[10] Dr. Yamauchi also refutes a number of Lamsa’s additional teachings, including his claim that the Greek Septuagint was never read by Palestinian Jews who spoke Aramaic and read Hebrew. “Lamsa’s contention that the Septuagint ‘was never officially read by the Jews in Palestine who spoke Aramaic and read Hebrew,’ is flatly contradicted by the discovery of Septuagint fragments at Qumran and the quotations from the Septuagint in the New Testament which are more numerous than quotations from the Masoretic [Hebrew] type texts.”[11] Dr. Yamauchi next dismantles Lamsa’s approach to the Old Testament text, noting that his views here are “pure fantasy.” About the New Testament, he observes that Lamsa “willfully disregards” the consensus of sound scholarship in order to uphold his own biases: The suggestion of Lamsa that one can revise the Old Testament text on the basis of the ambiguities in either the consonants or vocalization of the Syriac Peshitta text is pure fantasy. The value of the Peshitta for the text of the New Testament is quite minimal. Lamsa willfully disregards the view of scholars that Sinaitic-Curetonian Syriac texts of the New Testament are older than and superior to the Peshitta New Testament…. Since Lamsa quotes from Kenyon’s (Handbook to the) Textual Criticism of the New Testament, he cannot be ignorant of the evaluation of the Peshitta by scholars but has chosen to deliberately disregard their views. In contrast to Lamsa, all reputable scholars hold the Peshitta New Testament to be based on translations from Greek texts—and from relatively late and inferior Greek texts at that. According to Metzger: “in the Gospels it is closer to the Byzantine type of text than in Acts, where it presents many striking agreements with the Western text.”[12] As Yamauchi contuse, he observes that even Lamsa’s translation of the Peshitta is of poor quality: In spite of Lamsa’s outrageous and mischievous claims for the Peshitta, he might have done a service by offering a usable English translation of the Peshitta. Instead, his translation is defective in many respects. In some cases, Lamsa has slavishly copied the King James Version even where the Syriac could be rendered differently. For example, in Philippians 2:6-7…. Where Lamsa does offer an original rendering, it is at times a misleading [one, e.g.] “Caesar’s court,” in Philippians 1:13 for the Syriac Pretorin, which is simply the transliteration of the Latin praetorium, the emperor’s praetorian guard.[13] Finally, Dr. Yamauchi observes that one may utilize Aramaic if one does so with caution. He discusses the reasons for this and concludes that the “cautious circumspection” of Aramaic scholars is in marked contrast to the “reckless speculation” of Lamsa. Though it is impossible to lend any credence to the fantastic claims of Lamsa, there, …are sources of Aramaic which can be used with caution. In contrast to Lamsa, who minimizes the dialectical differences between late, eastern Syriac and early, western Aramaic, Fitzmyer warns us: “We should be suspicious of philological arguments about the Aramaic substratum when they depend on texts and dialects of Aramaic that come from a later date (e.g., from the third century A.D. or later), precisely because a new phase of the language begins about that time with clear geographical distinctions”…. How far removed is the cautious circumspection of Aramaic scholars from the reckless speculations of G. M. Lamsa![14] With this brief background, we now examine the writings of Lamsa and Errico. To start we should observe that Lamsa claimed he was a Christian. “I pray God this translation will benefit Christians everywhere and will help them toward a better understanding of the greatest and most inspiring book of all ages. After all, sincere faith in Jesus Christ has its own reward and devotion to Christ is the principle of all Christianity.”[15] Lamsa and the Bible Did Lamsa remain faithful to the teachings of Jesus Christ and the Bible in his translation? The plain answer is “no.” In his writings, Lamsa denied the deity of Jesus Christ, the biblical teaching on salvation, the judgment, the personality of Satan and demons and numerous other cardinal doctrines of Christianity. Far from being a careful exegete of the Holy Scriptures, Lamsa played so fast and loose with the biblical text that it becomes obvious why so many different cults that deny the Bible turn to him for inspiration. In his Idioms in the Bible Explained: A Key to the Holy Scriptures, we find a typical example of his approach to the Bible: allegorical and non-literal interpretations abound. The following examples, taken from pages 1-6 and 60-83, in his mind represent the true meaning of the following Scriptures. “Let there be light” in Genesis 1:3 refers to enlightenment or understanding. The Garden of Eden in Genesis 2:8 is a metaphor for a wife or a family. The tree of life in Genesis 2:9 refers to sex or posterity. The angels in Genesis 19:1 indicate God’s counsel, or spirits or God thoughts. Wrestling with an angel in Genesis 32:24 refers to being suspicious of a pious man. In Exodus 3:2, the burning bush means that difficulties lie ahead. In Exodus 3:5, “take off your sandals” means to disregard pagan teachings or to cleanse your heart. In Matthew 2:1-10 the wisemen following the star of Bethlehem is interpreted as “walking in the direction of the stars.” “The only begotten Son” (KJV), referring to Jesus Christ in John 1:18, signifies “the first one who recognized the fatherhood of God” and “the only God-like man, hence a spiritual son of God.” In Matthew 5:22, “fire of hell” means mental suffering or torment. Lamsa in particular did not like the idea of a real devil or demons, and so in Matthew 8:31, “the demons” refers to insane men. In Matthew 12:43 “evil spirit” means an evil inclination or a demented person. In Mark 1:34, “he would not let the demons speak” is interpreted as Jesus not allowing the insane to speak after he had healed them. In Mark 5:9, “My name is Legion,” means that the possessed man had many wrong ideas or that he was a hopeless case. In Luke 4:41, when the demons came out of men, it indicates that many insane men were restored to mental health. In Luke 8:2, “seven demons,” refers to seven bad habits or wrong inclinations. In Luke 10:18, “Satan” expresses the idea of to stray, to slide, to mislead and to slip, and “[I saw] Satan fall” indicates that evil is destroyed. In Lamsa’s book, More Light on the Gospel, he attempts to explain over 400 New Testament passages. Again, typically, we find non-literal renderings. In Matthew 4:8 the term “high mountain” is figurative and “means he took Him to the summit of his highest human imagination” (p. 2). The word “hated” in Romans 9:13, although perhaps used relatively, still means hate, but for Lamsa it is defined as “to put aside” (p. 187). Lamsa states, “God did not hate Esau. God is love and there is no hatred in Him” (p. 188); never mind that Scripture declares that God does hate (Psa. 5:5; Zech. 8:17; Mal. 2:16; Rev. 2:6). He denies that God hardened Pharaoh’s heart, in spite of Romans 9:17-18 and Exodus 4:21, and he rejects that God judged the Canaanites, in spite of the clear testimony of the book of Joshua (p. 189). He also denies eternal punishment, despite Jesus’ clear teaching in Luke 16:19-31, which he calls “wholly allegorical.”[16] In relation to 2 Corinthians 5:10, which refers to the judgment seat of Christ, Lamsa misinterprets the verse and states, “God and Jesus punish no one. People bring punishment upon themselves through their own evil deeds” (p. 227). This is in direct contrast to 2 Thessalonians 1:6-8 and many other verses. In Revelation 20:13-14, where death and hell are cast into the lake of fire, Lamsa says that “these sayings are used metaphorically,” and he again implies there is no eternal punishment (p. 363). Lamsa also has an unorthodox view of the second coming.[17] Lamsa and Jesus Christ Even more disturbing are Lamsa’s view on Jesus Christ. In The Hidden Years of Jesus, Lamsa expresses a characteristic New Thought and Mind Science view of Jesus Christ: “Jesus” was the man; “Christ” was the God-part of him (cf. 1 John 2:22). “Jesus was born a man. He died on the cross a man, but Christ, God dwelling in him—his divinity, was not subject to human suffering nor to birth nor death” (pp. 10-11). The following statements by Lamsa, in More Light on the Gospels, also document his false view of Jesus Christ. “Jesus did not believe in the power of death” (p. 37). “Jesus… was the first to restore man’s divinity… he became the begotten son of God” (p. 120, emphasis added). “As Jesus advanced in his studies, he discovered that he himself was the man [the messiah] who was to take this mantle of the prophets” (emphasis added).[18] Further, in his 400 page text Gospel Light, Lamsa states that Jesus was never worshipped as God (p. 353), and that Jesus was not the Son of God as Christians understand the term (p. 148). “Any claim which Jesus might have made to be greater than God or even to be God himself would certainly have caused misunderstanding even among his own followers. He always declared that he was in accord with God who was greater than he” (p. 369). Lamsa and Salvation Lamsa’s views on salvation are also heretical. In More Light on the Gospels (pp. 117-120), commenting on John 3:16, Lamsa rejects the clear meaning for his own biased interpretation. He actually denies that on the Cross Jesus atoned for the sin of the world: No verse in the Holy Bible is more quoted than this one and yet none is probably more theologically misunderstood. This is because the Western reader does not understand Eastern customs and mannerisms of speech…. It is often said that Jesus Christ died for our sins, and that our sins could never have been forgiven without his death. The Aramaic word mitol means “because, or on account of or for” but the preferred meaning is “because.” I am inclined to believe that Jesus died because of our sins, because of man’s transgression against God’s law [i.e., not in an atoning sense but as a victim because evil men killed him]. God, being the living father, does not need to be appeased by his children [i.e., Jesus]. No human father would try to appease his wrath by putting one of his sons to death…. Assuredly the death of Jesus on the cross was predicted by the prophet Isaiah…. The prophet did not at any time say that Jesus’ death would reconcile God…. The Scripture says “God is love.” Indeed, love could not demand human sacrifices because there is nothing in love to be appeased. Jesus died on the cross not to appease God or the evil forces, but to prove that [all human] life is indestructible and everlasting because God is indestructible and everlasting. Thus, “Jesus, through his death, became an everlasting example of meekness and loving kindness” (p. 228). “We do not mean that Jesus died to pay a price to the forces of evil for the sins of the people, but that he risked his life to rescue them from sin” (p. 229). “Jesus through his resurrection saved all mankind in that he gave to them an assurance of life here after” (p. 249). In the quote above, Lamsa claims Jesus’ death did not atone for our sins or reconcile us to God. But one only need read Isaiah 53 to see how wrong Lamsa was. Finally, rejecting the biblical meaning of the term regeneration, he says that, “to be born again means to start over, to become like a child, receptive, like the first Adam before the transgression” (p. 310). From all of this it is clear that Lamsa’s theology was not Christian, despite his claims. It is not surprising then, that his chief disciple, Rocco A. Errico, also denies basic Christian teachings. Rocco A. Errico and the Noohra Foundation The Noohra Foundation is the brainchild of Rocco A. Errico, whose purpose involves a “special emphasis on the teachings of the Hebrew prophets, Jesus, and related subjects.”[19] Errico and Lamsa were close friends. For seven years Errico studied under Lamsa, whom he believed to be a biblical authority and Aramaic expert. By and large, both Errico and Lamsa have taught doctrines close to New Thought teachings in general. In the quarterly publication Noohra, Vol. 4, No. 4, Errico states, “Man is God in disguise” (p. 3) and that false thinking, not sin, is the cause of human misery. “Jesus spoke of true freedom, i.e., freedom from erroneous thinking which is the cause of all human difficulties and enslaving philosophies, politically and religiously.”[20] Errico and Scripture Looking at Errico’s doctrines comprehensively, he denies the biblical nature of God, man, Jesus Christ and salvation as well as the biblical teaching on prayer and many other topics. On page 30 of The Ancient Aramaic Prayer of Jesus—The Lord’s Prayer, he states, “When we say the words ‘our universal Father,’ we are automatically recognizing other people’s sonship with the Father…. This means that the Chinese, the Russians, the Japanese, the Arabs, and all people everywhere are the sons of God!” Because everyone is already one in essence with God, no one needs repentance from sin or the atoning Savior. People only need to realize that they are fully redeemed children of God; nothing else is necessary. Like Lamsa, Errico alters the biblical text to conform it to the purported Aramaic original. For example, in Psalm 7:11 we read, “God is a righteous judge, a God who expresses his wrath every day.” Errico changes this to “Alpha is a just judge and He is not angry every day.”[21] Errico has changed hundreds of Scriptures like this, and he claims that thousands of others need changing! In effect, Errico and others are rewriting the entire Bible in accordance with their own wishes; they are restructuring biblical teachings into New Thought teachings (or whatever) by appealing to “Aramaic originals.” Thus God is defined as “infinite intelligence,” “the essence of all things… the entire cosmic system is alive,” “one power,” “life forces,” “the Source,” “inherent spiritual power” and so on.[22] “He [God] is not someone to be feared.”[23] God cannot be understood intellectually or doctrinally, He can only be perceived intuitively.[24] Errico’s teachings on Jesus Christ are also quite wrong. To him, Jesus is little more than a New Thought practitioner. To pray in Jesus’ name means experiencing the same New Thought awareness that Jesus supposedly felt: that all people are one and God is the universal Father; only the Good exists).[25] In The Ancient Aramaic Prayer of Jesus, Errico offers us his new Christ. We are told that Jesus changed the Old Testament concept of God from a God of fear to a God of love.[26] Errico also states, “Jesus knew that man’s spirit and God’s Spirit are of the same essence…. God and man, then, being of the same spiritual essence, are able to communicate—the infinite with the Infinite.”[27] In John 8:24, where Jesus says, “You [will] die in your sins [if] you do not believe that I am the one I claim to be,” Errico argues, “‘Ye shall die in your sins’ means ‘You will die in your mistaken ideas, not knowing the truth.”[28] John 14:13-14 is translated and given an expanded New Thought meaning from the Aramaic, “And anything you may ask according to my method I will do it for you so that the father may be celebrated through his son. And if you will ask me in my way, I am doing it.”[29] Errico’s views on salvation are also unbiblical. What we need is salvation from our ignorance about our oneness with God. Jesus never had to die on the Cross for sin because no one was ever separated from God. “And yet, we have been taught to approach God as if we were totally degraded, no good, unworthy sinners. Jesus never taught us this! It is a misunderstanding of Scripture!… At no time can there be separation from God! If we believe that we are cut off or separated from Him, then it is we who bring the sense of division. It is not God who does this; it is our own mental attitude. God is! And He is everywhere! He hasn’t changed! We have to change our wrong attitudes!”[30] The Occult Finally, we should note that given their New Thought worldview in general, the teachings of Lamsa and Errico endorse interest in the occult world. Lamsa stated, “Man has unlimited power within himself.”[31] Errico has made an approving, if casual reference, to those who “seek aid and assistance from their personal spirit guides.”[32] This openness to the occult is evident in Noohra Foundation publications. Errico teaches psychic development classes titled “Intuitive Development Workshops” where people are taught psychic meditation and how to develop their “intuition”—psychometry, clairvoyance, clairsentience, clairaudience, “auric” and “pranic” healing and so on. Psychic development is also integrated into Errico’s Bible studies; for example, titles of his studies include “Moses and the Mystery Schools” and “Seers, Kings and Prophets—The First School of Psychic Development and the Methods Used by Samuel.”[33] A Noohra Foundation brochure confuses the supernatural and natural realms when it declares: “Supernatural? Intuitive development will show you just how ‘super’ the natural in you really is. Learn to develop your healing and intuitive forces…. Allow yourself to be receptive; turn within and listen; the voice that speaks to you through you is known as intuition.”[34] However, as we documented in our Encyclopedia of New Age Beliefs in the chapters on New Age Intuition, Inner Work and Channeling, such attempts at psychic development often lead to occult involvement and have been employed by aspiring mediums and occultists for millennia. The end result here can hardly be different.[35] In conclusion, we lament that Errico has not taken his own advice: “We have become too bogged down in outward forms and dogmas and have set aside his [Jesus’] original teachings.”[36] And, “it is the tendency of so many biblical authorities to complicate the obvious and simple meaning of the Scriptures.”[37] https://www.jashow.org/articles/guests-and-authors/dr-john-ankerberg/george-m-lamsa-rocco-a-errico-and-the-aramaic-argument/ In conclusion, the bible warned us about those who would come promote and encourage us to accept another gospel contrary to the bible that Christ taught us. Be on the alert, stay away from them and don't listen to their teachings. Jesus said "I am the way, the truth and the life, no one comes to the Father except through Me." By His death on the cross, Jesus is our redeemer and the only way to God. Acts 20:28-30 New King James Version (NKJV) 28 Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood. 29 For I know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock. 30 Also from among yourselves men will rise up, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after themselves. Galatians 1:6-9 New King James Version (NKJV) 6 I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, 7 which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed. Romans 16:17-18 New King James Version (NKJV) 17 Now I urge you, brethren, note those who cause divisions and offenses, contrary to the doctrine which you learned, and avoid them. 18 For those who are such do not serve our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly, and by smooth words and flattering speech deceive the hearts of the simple. 2 John 9-11 New King James Version (NKJV) 9 Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him; 11 for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds.

I looked up Proverbs 16:27 and also read the surrounding verses in many other translations and this is how I interpret what the verse could potentially be saying from my perspective. "An ungodly person devises destructive gossip that spreads like a wildfire" A combination of two translations: The New Living and the Easy-to-Read version translations helped me form this interpretation. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=proverbs+16%3A27&version=NKJV;TLB;ERV;NLT http://www.biblestudytools.com/proverbs/16-27-compare.html http://biblehub.com/proverbs/16-27.htm I'm no scholar so don't take what I "think" it's saying over creditable sources like the NKJV and the KJV. Just trying to make it easier to understand "if" my interpretation is correct. But idle hands and idle lips? Safe to say the Living Bible is off base on Proverbs 16:27.

I'm against the Aramaic translation. It's why I needed the video approved to show others. But thanks for the approval.

I'll reply to this once I get a video approval.

Dr. Rocco Errico, the man in the video, is the author and translator of the "Aramaic Bible in Plain English" translation. Seeking video approval.

Well duh!!! Than why would you want me to prove Chuck Anesi wrote those passages when all I said was the creator of the website you posted is Chuck Anesi, not R.Joseph. ROFL!!!

Matthew 24:36-39 New King James Version (NKJV) 36 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only. 37 But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. Matthew 24:36-39 is a description of Christ coming for the church during a time when people on earth are conducting normal daily routine activities like celebrating, partying and marriage. The Aramaic translation of that scripture is grossly in error. No other translation uses the word captive in that verse to describe the rapture. A captive is a described as someone taken as a prisoner. Christ isn't coming to imprison anyone, particularly His bride. The bible describes the rapture as the "Blessed Hope" Titus 2:13 and exhorts all to pray always (Luke 21:36) and be watchful (Luke 21:36, Mark 13:37) that he be worthy to partake in the rapture. Christians are not encouraged to watch and pray to become prisoners during the tribulation. You're judging the book by it's cover having no idea what I'm doing. If you did and is obedience to scripture with a faithful heart, you would be doing what I'm doing regardless of persecution. The argument started from page 58, it be a good idea to go back and read everything and not just the last page. Also this, don't be dogmatic about speculation or promote what's clearly an error. There are people on this forum that could be new to Christianity and bible prophecy and can easily become lead astray believing the Aramaic version of Matthew 24:36-39. God holds people responsible for what they promote: good or bad. Psalm 141:8-10 New King James Version (NKJV) 8 But my eyes are upon You, O GOD the Lord; In You I take refuge; Do not leave my soul destitute. 9 Keep me from the snares they have laid for me, And from the traps of the workers of iniquity. 10 Let the wicked fall into their own nets, While I escape safely. Psalm 35:8 New King James Version (NKJV) 8 Let destruction come upon him unexpectedly, And let his net that he has hidden catch himself; Into that very destruction let him fall. Psalm 7:15-16 New King James Version (NKJV) 15 He made a pit and dug it out, And has fallen into the ditchwhich he made. 16 His trouble shall return upon his own head, And his violent dealing shall come down on his own crown. Be observant. You'll notice the many who promote something other than the Pre-Trib rapture are also teaching things contrary to the bible and believe they must go through the tribulation. God has removed His protection from their eyes and allowed the enemy to make them think they must endure the wrath. Best to proclaim what is true, consistent with the bible. Revelation 22:18-19 New King James Version (NKJV) 18 For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; 19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. 2 Thessalonians 2:11 New King James Version (NKJV) 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie,

No! Technically the wraths are a part of the tribulation so post trib is correct. No! You're lost! Not possible to be post trib and pre wrath together. The bowls and the trumpets are ALL the wrath of God. His angels are the ones who sounds all 7 trumpets and pours out all 7 bowls. The trumpets are God's judgments and the bowls are God's execution. You need to learn what they are and not adhere to man made doctrines. And No! Pre wrath is not technically post trib nor pre wrath of the bowls. That's just some ignorant man made doctrine created to mean the beginning of the bowl judgment but it's incorrect. And a bunch of loonies having no idea of on the book of Revelation just jumped on the bandwagon because it sounds good. God's wrath is the entire 7 years. The angels executing the trumpets and bowls are from God doing God's deeds. Of course. The truth is not in you. If it were so, you would jump at the opportunity to partake in the Pre-Trib rapture. No! The Seals are ALL pretrib events. The next prophetic event in Revelation is the 6th Seal, the rapture of the Church. We are currently in the 5th Seal, the time of the martyrs. Christian persecution reached record high in 2015, report says http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/17/world/christian-persecution-2015/index.html Christian Persecution in India Hits Record High in First Half of 2017 http://www.christianpost.com/news/christian-persecution-india-hits-record-high-2017-195252/ Christian Persecution Continues to Rise Worldwide http://www.christianpost.com/news/christian-persecution-continues-to-rise-worldwide-180668/ PERSECUTED CHRISTIANS SUFFER 'WORST YEAR YET,' MOSTLY UNDER ISLAM http://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/266265/persecuted-christians-suffer-worst-year-yet-mostly-raymond-ibrahim Oh brother! No such thing as two 3.5 year tribulations. It's one 7 year tribulation. It's called Daniel's 70th week, not 1st Daniel's 3 1/2 and 2nd Daniel's 3 1/2 weeks. The Lord's Prayer is not about the rapture, the tribulation or the end times. But when you fast, do not sound the alarm like the hypocrites. Matthew 6:8-16 New King James Version (NKJV) 8 “Therefore do not be like them. For your Father knows the things you have need of before you ask Him. 9 In this manner, therefore, pray: Our Father in heaven, Hallowed be Your name. 10 Your kingdom come. Your will be done On earth as it is in heaven. 11 Give us this day our daily bread. 12 And forgive us our debts, As we forgive our debtors. 13 And do not lead us into temptation, But deliver us from the evil one. For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen. 14 “For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15 But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. 16 “Moreover, when you fast, do not be like the hypocrites, with a sad countenance. For they disfigure their faces that they may appear to men to be fasting. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward. Pssst! It still said "heaven (as the abode of God)" I rest my case! Wrong verse......as always. Quote Mark 13:27. On 10/1/2017 at 8:31 AM, inchrist said: Mark 13:27 - And he will send his angels and gather his elect from around the globe from one end to the other

Moses wrote the first 5 books of the bible from Genesis to Deuteronomy, not Chuck Anesi. And Isaiah wrote the book of.....well Isaiah, not Chuck Anesi. Why don't you prove Chuck Anesi wrote those passages. Who are you arguing with on this topic? Certainly not with me because I haven't commented on it and it has nothing related to anything I've said. Oh I get it, you need to post about something - anything - to win an argument. Well here's a brownie point and a pat on you the head for winning an argument against yourself. You mean the prophet Isaiah is not be Jewish? Isaiah 26:20 New International VersionGo, my people, enter your rooms and shut the doors behind you; hide yourselves for a little while until his wrath has passed by. New Living TranslationGo home, my people, and lock your doors! Hide yourselves for a little while until the LORD's anger has passed. English Standard VersionCome, my people, enter your chambers, and shut your doors behind you; hide yourselves for a little while until the fury has passed by. New American Standard Bible Come, my people, enter into your rooms And close your doors behind you; Hide for a little while Until indignation runs its course. King James BibleCome, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast. Holman Christian Standard BibleGo, my people, enter your rooms and close your doors behind you. Hide for a little while until the wrath has passed. International Standard VersionCome, my people, enter your rooms and shut your doors behind you. Hide yourselves for a little while until the fury has passed by. NET BibleGo, my people! Enter your inner rooms! Close your doors behind you! Hide for a little while, until his angry judgment is over! New Heart English BibleCome, my people, enter into your chambers, and shut your doors behind you. Hide yourself for a little moment, until the indignation is past. GOD'S WORD® TranslationMy people, go to your rooms, and shut the doors behind you. Hide for a little while until his fury has ended. JPS Tanakh 1917Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, And shut thy doors about thee; Hide thyself for a little moment, Until the indignation be overpast. New American Standard 1977 Come, my people, enter into your rooms, And close your doors behind you; Hide for a little while, Until indignation runs its course. Jubilee Bible 2000Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself, as it were, for a little moment until the indignation is overpast. King James 2000 BibleCome, my people, enter you into your chambers, and shut your doors about you: hide yourself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation is past. American King James VersionCome, my people, enter you into your chambers, and shut your doors about you: hide yourself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be over. American Standard VersionCome, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast. Douay-Rheims BibleGo, my people, enter into thy chambers, shut thy doors upon thee, hide thyself a little for a moment, until the indignation pass away. Darby Bible TranslationCome, my people, enter into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee; hide thyself just for a little moment, until the indignation be past. English Revised VersionCome, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast. Webster's Bible TranslationCome, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee; hide thyself as it were for a little moment until the indignation shall be overpast. World English BibleCome, my people, enter into your rooms, and shut your doors behind you. Hide yourself for a little moment, until the indignation is past. Young's Literal TranslationCome, My people, enter into thy inner chambers, And shut thy doors behind thee, Hide thyself shortly a moment till the indignation pass over. You mean the Apostle John is not Jewish? John 14:2 New International VersionMy Father's house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? New Living TranslationThere is more than enough room in my Father's home. If this were not so, would I have told you that I am going to prepare a place for you? English Standard VersionIn my Father’s house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you? Berean Study BibleIn My Father's house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? Berean Literal BibleIn My Father's house there are many mansions. And if not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you? New American Standard Bible "In My Father's house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you. King James BibleIn my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. Holman Christian Standard BibleIn My Father's house are many dwelling places; if not, I would have told you. I am going away to prepare a place for you. International Standard VersionThere are many rooms in my Father's house. If there weren't, I wouldn't have told you that I am going away to prepare a place for you, would I? NET BibleThere are many dwelling places in my Father's house. Otherwise, I would have told you, because I am going away to make ready a place for you. New Heart English BibleIn my Father's house are many dwelling places. If it weren't so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you. Aramaic Bible in Plain English“There are many lodgings in my Father's house, and if not, I would have told you, because I go to prepare a place for you.” GOD'S WORD® TranslationMy Father's house has many rooms. If that were not true, would I have told you that I'm going to prepare a place for you? New American Standard 1977 “In My Father’s house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you. Jubilee Bible 2000In my Father's house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. King James 2000 BibleIn my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. American King James VersionIn my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. American Standard VersionIn my Father's house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you. Douay-Rheims BibleIn my Father's house there are many mansions. If not, I would have told you: because I go to prepare a place for you. Darby Bible TranslationIn my Father's house there are many abodes; were it not so, I had told you: for I go to prepare you a place; English Revised VersionIn my Father's house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you. Webster's Bible TranslationIn my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. Weymouth New TestamentIn my Father's house there are many resting-places. Were it otherwise, I would have told you; for I am going to make ready a place for you. World English BibleIn my Father's house are many homes. If it weren't so, I would have told you. I am going to prepare a place for you. Young's Literal Translationin the house of my Father are many mansions; and if not, I would have told you; I go on to prepare a place for you; You mean the Apostle Paul is not Jewish? 2 Corinthians 5:1 New International VersionFor we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands. New Living TranslationFor we know that when this earthly tent we live in is taken down (that is, when we die and leave this earthly body), we will have a house in heaven, an eternal body made for us by God himself and not by human hands. English Standard VersionFor we know that if the tent that is our earthly home is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. Berean Study BibleNow we know that if the earthly tent we live in is dismantled, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands. Berean Literal BibleFor we know that if the tent of our earthly house should be destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. New American Standard Bible For we know that if the earthly tent which is our house is torn down, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. King James BibleFor we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. Holman Christian Standard BibleFor we know that if our temporary, earthly dwelling is destroyed, we have a building from God, an eternal dwelling in the heavens, not made with hands. International Standard VersionWe know that if the earthly tent we live in is torn down, we have a building in heaven that comes from God, an eternal house not built by human hands. NET BibleFor we know that if our earthly house, the tent we live in, is dismantled, we have a building from God, a house not built by human hands, that is eternal in the heavens. New Heart English BibleFor we know that if the earthly house of our tent is dissolved, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal, in the heavens. Aramaic Bible in Plain EnglishFor we know that surely this our bodily house that is in The Earth will be destroyed; but there is a building for us that is from God, a house which is not by the work of hands, in Heaven for eternity. GOD'S WORD® TranslationWe know that if the life we live here on earth is ever taken down like a tent, we still have a building from God. It is an eternal house in heaven that isn't made by human hands. New American Standard 1977 For we know that if the earthly tent which is our house is torn down, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. Jubilee Bible 2000For we know that if the earthly house of this our habitation were dissolved, we have a building of God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. King James 2000 BibleFor we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. American King James VersionFor we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. American Standard VersionFor we know that if the earthly house of our tabernacle be dissolved, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal, in the heavens. Douay-Rheims BibleFor we know, if our earthly house of this habitation be dissolved, that we have a building of God, a house not made with hands, eternal in heaven. Darby Bible TranslationFor we know that if our earthly tabernacle house be destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. English Revised VersionFor we know that if the earthly house of our tabernacle be dissolved, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal, in the heavens. Webster's Bible TranslationFor we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. Weymouth New TestamentFor we know that if this poor tent, our earthly house, is taken down, we have in Heaven a building which God has provided, a house not built by human hands, but eternal. World English BibleFor we know that if the earthly house of our tent is dissolved, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal, in the heavens. Young's Literal TranslationFor we have known that if our earthly house of the tabernacle may be thrown down, a building from God we have, an house not made with hands -- age-during -- in the heavens, I think you just got debunked by your favorite translation: Weymouth New Testament.

The guy in the middle of this picture with the sign "Don't Judge Sin of People" needs a good slap on the head. A lot of Christians need a good wake up call on this matter and need to speak out. It's a sin to stay silent against sin and immoral issues, with dire consequences for those who stay idle not speaking out. On a different slant, one of the most often quoted scriptures is "Judge not, lest ye be judged" (Matthew 7:1 KJV). Taken out of context, the verse has been used to incorrectly justify never taking a stand on anything that would require a judgment to be made. Rather, the verse is referring to hypocritical, self-righteous, unfair kinds of judgment, especially where the confronter is guilty of the same sin as the one being confronted. https://www.gotquestions.org/Christian-correct-Christian.html One of the most misused verses in the Bible is, "Judge not, that ye be not judged" (Matt. 7: 1). Every Scripture verse should be read in its context, if we are to properly understand the true meaning. In vs. 2-5 of this same chapter it is evident that v. 1 is referring to hypocritical judgment. A brother who has a beam in his own eye should not be judging the brother who may have a mote in his eye. The lesson is plain, you cannot judge another for his sin if you are guilty of the same sin. http://www.av1611.org/crock/judbynum.html Today we address one of the most quoted and most commonly misinterpreted passages in the Bible, a verse usually cited to mean that people shouldn’t judge one another but meaning something entirely different: Matthew 7:1–2 Μὴ κρίνετε, ἵνα μὴ κριθῆτε· ἐν ᾧ γὰρ κρίματι κρίνετε κριθήσεσθε, καὶ ἐν ᾧ μέτρῳ μετρεῖτε μετρηθήσεται ὑμῖν. “Do not judge, so that you will not be judged, since you will be judged in the same judgment that you make, and you will be measured by the same standard you apply.” Read more: https://www.jasonstaples.com/bible/misinterpreted/misinterpreted-bible-passages-3-judge-not-lest-you-be-judged/ Top 5 Most Misquoted, Misused, and Misunderstood Bible Verses Yeah you guessed it. Number one on the list is Matthew 7:1. Read more: http://truthbygrace.org/top-5-most-misquoted-misused-and-misunderstood-bible-verses/ 1. Judge not, lest ye be judged. Matthew 7:1 The mother of all Biblical misrepresentations. Let us “twist not a scripture lest we be like the devil” (Paul Washer). The most frequently misused verse in the Bible is without question, Matthew 7:1. Often misstated as “Judge not.” or “Jesus said don’t judge.” The most humorous aspect of the misuse of this verse is that it invariable occurs in such a way that the person misusing the verse, in referencing it, actually declares a judgment on the person they feel is being judgmental. Hypocrisy much? Someone will say, “You’re being judgmental. Jesus said don’t judge.” And in their pronouncing a person as judgmental, they too have judged. Additionally, If you’re perceptive enough you will notice as well that Jesus Himself is passing judgment here on those who improperly judge. Clearly this interpretation of this verse doesn’t make sense. =================================================== =================================================== When Silence Is Sinful by John MacArthur Ignore it and it will go away. That seems to be the tactic the charismatic movement has adopted when it comes to false prophets, heretical theology, and phony miracles. Many charismatics simply turn a blind eye to the corruption in their midst, assuming that if it’s not happening in their church then it’s not their problem. But that’s not the biblical pattern for dealing with sin in the church. In fact, it directly contradicts the apostle Paul’s instructions for dealing with false converts and professing believers whose sin is corrupting the church. To the church at Ephesus he wrote, “Do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead even expose them” (Ephesians 5:11). Our Christian responsibility goes beyond abstaining from the “deeds of darkness.” We are also called to expose them. To ignore evil is to encourage it, and to keep quiet about it is to help promote it. The verb translated as “expose” (from elegchō) can also carry the idea of reproof, correction, punishment, or discipline. We are to confront sin with intolerance. Sometimes such exposure and reproof will be direct and at other times indirect, but it should always be immediate. When we are living in obedience to God, that fact in itself will be a testimony against wrong. When those around us see us helping those in need rather than exploiting them, hear us talking with purity instead of profanity, and observe us speaking truthfully rather than deceitfully, our example will be a rebuke against selfishness, unwholesome talk, and lies. Simply refusing to participate in a dishonest business or social practice will sometimes be such a strong rebuke that it costs us our job or a friendship. Dishonesty is terribly uncomfortable in the presence of honesty, even when there is no verbal or other direct opposition. Often, of course, open rebuke is necessary. Silent testimony will only go so far. Failure to speak out against and oppose evil is a failure to obey God. Believers are to expose the works of darkness with whatever legitimate, biblical means necessary. Love that does not openly expose and oppose sin is not biblical love. Love not only “does not act unbecomingly” but it “does not rejoice in unrighteousness” wherever it might be found (1 Corinthians 13:5–6). Our Lord said, “If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private. . . . If he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you. . . . If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church” (Matthew 18:15–17). This is the responsibility of every Christian (cf. 1 Timothy 5:1, 20; 2 Timothy 4:2; Titus 1:13; 2:15). Unfortunately, many Christians are barely able to keep their own spiritual and moral houses in order that they do not have the discernment, inclination, or power to confront evil in the church or in society at large. We should be so mature in biblical truth, obedience, holiness, and love that the natural course of our life is to expose, rebuke, and offer the remedy for every kind of evil. Sadly, many Christians do not confront evil because they do not take it seriously. They laugh and joke about unadulterated wickedness—things that are immoral and ungodly in the extreme. They recognize the sinfulness of those things and would likely never participate in them; but they enjoy them vicariously. In so doing, they not only fail to be an influence against evil but are instead influenced by it—contaminated to the extent that they think and talk about it without exposing and rebuking it. Whether the sin is isolated to one small group or congregation, or it thrives on a global scale like the corruption in the charismatic movement, God’s people need to be faithful to expose and deal with it biblically. https://www.gty.org/library/blog/B140220 ============================================= ============================================= We're commanded and given all authorities to judge: to speak up against sin and rebuke sharply when needed. 2 Timothy 4:1-4 New King James Version (NKJV) 4 I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom: 2 Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching. 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; 4 and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables. Titus 2:15 New King James Version (NKJV) 15 Speak these things, exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no one despise you. Titus 1:13-14 New King James Version (NKJV) 13 This testimony is true. Therefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith, 14 not giving heed to Jewish fables and commandments of men who turn from the truth. 1 Timothy 5:20-21 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV) 20 Tell those who sin that they are wrong. Do this in front of the whole church so that the others will have a warning. 21 Before God and Jesus Christ and the chosen angels, I tell you to make these judgments without any prejudice. Treat every person the same. 1 Corinthians 2:15 New King James Version (NKJV) 15 But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one. 1 Corinthians 5:1-5 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV) 5 I don’t want to believe what I am hearing—that there is sexual sin among you. And it is such a bad kind of sexual sin that even those who have never known God don’t allow it. People say that a man there has his father’s wife. 2 And still you are proud of yourselves! You should have been filled with sadness. And the man who committed that sin should be put out of your group. 3 I cannot be there with you in person, but I am with you in spirit. And I have already judged the man who did this. I judged him the same as I would if I were really there. 4 Come together in the name of our Lord Jesus. I will be with you in spirit, and you will have the power of our Lord Jesus with you. 5 Then turn this man over to Satan. His sinful self has to be destroyed so that his spirit will be saved on the day when the Lord comes again. Matthew 18:15-17 New King James Version (NKJV) 15 “Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. 16 But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that ‘by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’17 And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector. ================================================ ================================================ Instructions on judging righteously and dealing with liars, aka false teachers, false prophets and other forms of lies. Titus 1:11 New Living Translation (NLT) 11 They must be silenced, because they are turning whole families away from the truth by their false teaching. And they do it only for money. 2 John 9-11 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV) 9 Everyone must continue to follow only the teaching about Christ. Whoever changes that teaching does not have God. But whoever continues to follow the teaching about Christ has both the Father and his Son.10 Don’t accept those who come to you but do not bring this teaching. Don’t invite them into your house. Don’t welcome them in any way. 11 If you do, you are helping them with their evil work. Leviticus 19:15-18 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV) 15 “You must be fair in judgment. You must not show special favor to the poor. And you must not show special favor to important people. You must be fair when you judge your neighbor. 16 You must not go around spreading false stories against other people. Don’t do anything that would put your neighbor’s life in danger. I am the Lord. 17 “Don’t secretly hate any of your neighbors. But tell them openly what they have done wrong so that you will not be just as guilty of sin as they are. 18 Forget about the wrong things people do to you. Don’t try to get even. Love your neighbor as yourself. I am the Lord. Ephesians 5:6-11 New King James Version (NKJV) 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. 7 Therefore do not be partakers with them. 8 For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light 9 (for the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness, righteousness, and truth), 10 finding out what is acceptable to the Lord. 11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them. 2 Thessalonians 3:13-15 New King James Version (NKJV) 13 But as for you, brethren, do not grow weary in doing good. 14 And if anyone does not obey our word in this epistle, note that person and do not keep company with him, that he may be ashamed. 15 Yet do not count him as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother. Romans 16:17-18 New King James Version (NKJV) 17 Now I urge you, brethren, note those who cause divisions and offenses, contrary to the doctrine which you learned, and avoid them. 18 For those who are such do not serve our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly, and by smooth words and flattering speech deceive the hearts of the simple. 1 Corinthians 5:11-13 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV) 11 I meant you must not associate with people who claim to be believers but continue to live in sin. Don’t even eat with a brother or sister who sins sexually, is greedy, worships idols, abuses others with insults, gets drunk, or cheats people. 12-13 It is not my business to judge those who are not part of the group of believers. God will judge them, but you must judge those who are part of your group. The Scriptures say, “Make the evil person leave your group.” Titus 3:9-11 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV) 9 Stay away from those who have foolish arguments, who talk about useless family histories, or who make trouble and fight about what the Law of Moses teaches. These things are useless and will not help anyone. 10 Give a warning to all those who cause arguments. If they continue to cause trouble after a second warning, then don’t associate with them. 11 You know that people like that are evil and sinful. Their sins prove they are wrong. ============================================ ============================================ There are dire consequences of not speaking out against sin. You need to speak out, it's not an option. Ezekiel 3:17-21 New King James Version (NKJV) 17 “Son of man, I have made you a watchman for the house of Israel; therefore hear a word from My mouth, and give them warning from Me: 18 When I say to the wicked, ‘You shall surely die,’ and you give him no warning, nor speak to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life, that same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood I will require at your hand. 19 Yet, if you warn the wicked, and he does not turn from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but you have delivered your soul. 20 “Again, when a righteous man turns from his righteousness and commits iniquity, and I lay a stumbling block before him, he shall die; because you did not give him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he has done shall not be remembered; but his blood I will require at your hand. 21 Nevertheless if you warn the righteous man that the righteous should not sin, and he does not sin, he shall surely live because he took warning; also you will have delivered your soul.” Revelation 21:7-8 New King James Version (NKJV) 7 He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son. 8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” God Hates Cowards: Revelation 21:8. Watch the video Like many other Christian forums, this forum has a lot people who claims to be Christians but are practicing false teachings contrary to the bible. Jesus and the apostles risk their lives and died standing up for the truth, speaking out against sins of all kinds, especially false teachings. Yet here we are hiding safely behind our computers and the worst that can happen to us is get banned from this website. So we continue to say nothing but make friends pleasing those who are perverting others with teachings contrary to the bible. Maybe not everyone on Worthy but I do see many keeping quiet. We're not called to be idle, instead we're told to shepherd His flock till He returns. To speak up and promote the truth. Speak out against deceivers, not letting any of His sheep get lead astray. Acts 20:28-30 New King James Version (NKJV) 28 Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood. 29 For I know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock. 30 Also from among yourselves men will rise up, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after themselves. 1 Peter 5:1-4 New King James Version (NKJV) 5 The elders who are among you I exhort, I who am a fellow elder and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that will be revealed: 2 Shepherd the flock of God which is among you, serving as overseers, not by compulsion but willingly,not for dishonest gain but eagerly; 3 nor as being lords over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock; 4 and when the Chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the crown of glory that does not fade away. Matthew 18:12-14 New King James Version (NKJV) 12 “What do you think? If a man has a hundred sheep, and one of them goes astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine and go to the mountains to seek the one that is straying? 13 And if he should find it, assuredly, I say to you, he rejoices more over that sheep than over the ninety-nine that did not go astray. 14 Even so it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones should perish.

Once again, you're not telling the truth. This is what you wrote. I repeated numerous times show me the translation with the word "globe" in it. On 10/1/2017 at 8:31 AM, inchrist said: Mark 13:27 - And he will send his angels and gather his elect from around the globe from one end to the other This is the translation you gave below. It doesn't have the word "globe" in it. On 10/8/2017 at 2:56 AM, inchrist said: Richard Francis Weymouth NT is free on line http://www.biblestudytools.com/wnt/ 31 And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet-blast, and they will bring together His own People to Him from north, south, east and west--from one extremity of the world to the other. Here's where you're caught lying again. The first quote is on Mark 13:27. The second quote is from the Richard Francis Weymouth NT translation is on Matthew 24:31. Not Mark 13:27. And here you twist the argument adding this "now you wish to argue that world and globe doesnt mean the same thing," when Mark 13:27 indicates a gathering from both heaven and earth. Two different locations. Mark 13:27 New King James Version (NKJV) 27 And then He will send His angels, and gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of heaven. Matthew 24:31 speaks of a gathering only from heaven. One single location. You used the Weymouth NT translation on Matthew 24:31, which only indicates one single location citing that as Mark 13:27. Mark 13:27 shows a gathering from two locations: heaven and earth. Matthew 24:31 New King James Version (NKJV) 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Also this. If Matthew's intention was to tell the readers the angels will gather the elects from earth, Matthew would of used the word earth too just as Mark. It's not an interpretation, it's fabrication as many of your teachings are not consistent but contrary to the bible.

I don't know why you're laughing. If anyone that should be laughing it be all of us laughing at you when you look at the bottom of the link to see who created it. http://www.anesi.com/q0029.htm The person who made that website is Chuck Anesi, not R. Joseph. Even the link is www.anesi.com, not www.RJoseph.com Do you have no idea what post trib means? It means AFTER THE TRIBULATION! If you're promoting this scripture as the rapture, than you're promoting a post trib rapture too. Matthew 24:29-31 New King James Version (NKJV) 29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. What part of "after the tribulation" do you not understand? You don't answer for post trib because truth is you can't prove a post trib rapture exist. The question is not flawed. Anything taken from the bible that doesn't line up with your thinking is considered replacement theology. In the rapture, where do people go, to heaven (where God dwells) or to Jerusalem (on earth)? You seem to think it's the latter. I tell you it's heaven and you accuse me of replacement theology.

Dude, don't tell me I'm anti semitic. That's offensive and you don't know me. God as my witness, I stand behind Israel and the Jewish people 110% and plan to live their after the tribulation.

Cowards or Overcomers? Standing Strong on God’s Word https://billygraham.org/decision-magazine/july-august-2014/cowards-or-overcomers-standing-strong/ Franklin Graham: Heaven Is Not for Cowards! https://www.charismanews.com/opinion/44645-franklin-graham-heaven-is-not-for-cowards Revelation 21:7-8 New King James Version (NKJV) 7 He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son. 8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:7-8 King James Version (KJV) 7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. 8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. Seeking video approval

Interesting you would pick this parable of all the scriptures and parables in the entire bible. The message behind this parable is a dire warning about those being foolish and left behind. An interesting parallel or just a coincidence?

That verse is from the Weymouth NT translation. Why that translation that nobody uses? Why not quote Matthew 24:31 from the two most reliable and credible English translations available? You know, the ones with the least amount of errors. Matthew 24:31 New King James Version (NKJV) 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Matthew 24:31 King James Version (KJV) 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Honestly how long did it take you looking for a translation to say what you wanted it to say and still couldn't find one that uses the word "globe" in it? Is the Weymouth NT version the closest thing out there? If you try looking a little harder, you can see it actually said "heaven (as the abode of God)" from that source you pasted. It's telling you the heaven in Matthew 24:31 can mean heaven where God dwells.

You're not being truthful here. A few days ago you argued that you're not post-trib but here you continue promoting a post-trib rapture. And there's no such thing as two raptures. On 10/6/2017 at 11:18 PM, inchrist said: False - I have not ignored any scriptures you have given me, you are simply asking the wrong questions. I am not POST TRIB..... How many times must I tell you this? ..... I AM PRE BOWL 7th trumpet is the rapture (christs first bride).....then comes 7 bowls of wrath then comes rev 19 the second coming (Christs second bride). For some reason you keep placing me in the post trib box, why? I am not POST TRIB .... I AM PRE BOWL.... ask me questions pertaining to my eschatology. I DO NOT answer for the post tribs. I am not POST TRIB .... I AM PRE BOWL.... ask me questions pertaining to my eschatology. I DO NOT answer for the post tribs. There are several passages telling us angels carrying individuals for various reasons but none of them are rapture scriptures. The parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man is not about the rapture. You're not promoting biblical truth. In the rapture, the elects are "caught up" not "carried up by angels" to meet the Lord in the air. You're imposing upon scripture based on personal speculation, purely eisegesis. In the rapture, Jesus does the gathering from earth. 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 New King James Version (NKJV) 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. In the second coming, the angels does the gathering from heaven. Two completely different events. Matthew 24:31 New King James Version (NKJV) 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. This is false, and a violation of Matthew 7 and the 9th commandment. Matthew 7:1-5 New King James Version (NKJV) 7 “Judge not, that you be not judged. 2 For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you.3 And why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye? 4 Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me remove the speck from your eye’; and look, a plank is in your own eye?5 Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye. Here's the website you copied and pasted from. http://www.anesi.com/q0029.htm This site isn't telling you "No where in Jewish teachings do they understand this to be a rapture verse." You added that yourself. The guy in the link is commenting on Exodus 12:22, not the rapture. And he's also not a Jew. Basically you just posted a wrong website and added your own interpretation. You mean you don't have an answer when questioned about the rapture. But you certainly love to promote a post-trib rapture and debunk your other rapture view at the 7th trumpet. One cannot have two raptures and still be right. Now how hard is it to answer a few simple rapture question? 1) If there's a rapture (regardless of timing), that would mean people will be taken into heaven. Yes or No inchrist? 2) If there's a rapture, that would also mean someone has to go gather them from heaven. Yes or No inchrist? 3) Now if those taken to heaven must wait there till after the indignation (Isaiah 26:20), shouldn't there be somebody going to gather them after the tribulation (Matthew 24:31)? Yes or No inchrist? Isaiah 26:20 New King James Version (NKJV) 20 Come, my people, enter your chambers, And shut your doors behind you; Hide yourself, as it were, for a little moment, Until the indignation is past. Matthew 24:31 New King James Version (NKJV) 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Are you gonna ignore this again inchrist?

Let me guess, this must be your version of exegesis.

Well duh! Than why are you constantly arguing with me when I'm telling everyone Matthew 24:31 and Mark 13:27 is NOT the rapture? None of the other translations say "from the globe" nor "from one end to the other" as you did in your man-made bible of this passage. These are what other translations say. A good majority of them all say "from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven" KJV. http://biblehub.com/mark/13-27.htm Now do you get it? You've been debunked so many times but refuse to acknowledge what the bible clearly tells us. The only one you'll listen to is just yourself. Isaiah 26:19-21 New King James Version (NKJV) 19 Your dead shall live; Together with my dead body they shall arise. Awake and sing, you who dwell in dust; For your dew is like the dew of herbs, And the earth shall cast out the dead. 20 Come, my people, enter your chambers, And shut your doors behind you; Hide yourself, as it were, for a little moment, Until the indignation is past. 21 For behold, the Lord comes out of His place To punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity; The earth will also disclose her blood, And will no more cover her slain. inchrist, why don't you answer this if you don't think you've already been refuted. Now if Christ's angels are not sent to heaven (Matthew 24:31, Mark 13:27) to gather those waiting there till after the indignation, show me scriptures revealing all those being rapture stays in heaven for the next 1000 years during Christ's reign on earth. Who's gonna go get them if they're told to wait in heaven till after the indignation? There has to be a gathering from heaven too. Matthew 24:31 New King James Version (NKJV) 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Mark 13:27 New King James Version (NKJV) 27 And then He will send His angels, and gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of heaven. You're fabricating scriptures. There is no translation that uses the word "the globe" for Mark 13:27. On 10/1/2017 at 8:31 AM, inchrist said: Further in Mark, the context of the phrase four winds is the ends of the Earth & Sky. This is a phrase to describe the globe In short Mark and Matthew are telling us the following: Mark 13:27 - And he will send his angels and gather his elect from around the globe from one end to the other Mark 13:27 specifically indicates the gathering of the elects are from two locations: heaven and earth, which is consistent and in harmony with Isaiah 26:20 telling us those taken into heaven are to wait till after the indignation. You're altering Mark 13:27 trying to make others believe the angels gathers only from the earth leaving those in heaven waiting with no one coming for them, completely ignoring what Isaiah 26:20 say. Why don't you copy and paste from a credible source and provide a link for other readers to see and judge for themselves, unless you got something to hide. Anyone can go buy a software from Walmart and create a website and form their own opinions online. People also create videos daily on Youtube and already think they're pros. If you want an infallible source of information, quote scriptures like these passages that tells us those taken into heaven are waiting for someone to get them after the tribulation, not opinions from some guy you have absolutely no idea who he is. Isaiah 26:20 New King James Version (NKJV) 20 Come, my people, enter your chambers, And shut your doors behind you; Hide yourself, as it were, for a little moment, Until the indignation is past. Matthew 24:29-31 New King James Version (NKJV) 29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. inchrist, answer this question. If no one is being gathered from heaven after the tribulation, than how do you get a rapture? Where do people go when they get rapture? Show me a verse that said there's a U-turn in the sky during the rapture. So than who are those taken into heaven at the rapture? 1) The Israelis? 2) The Muslims? 3) The Atheists? You can't figure out who they are by reading about The Guy who comes down from heaven to judge the world and slay the a/c who calls them my people? Read below, who else can it be that gets taken into heaven before the tribulation? How many guesses do you need? Isaiah 26:19-27:1 New King James Version (NKJV) 19 Your dead shall live; Together with my dead body they shall arise. Awake and sing, you who dwell in dust; For your dew is like the dew of herbs, And the earth shall cast out the dead. 20 Come, my people, enter your chambers, And shut your doors behind you; Hide yourself, as it were, for a little moment, Until the indignation is past. 21 For behold, the Lord comes out of His place To punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity; The earth will also disclose her blood, And will no more cover her slain. 27 In that day the Lord with His severe sword, great and strong, Will punish Leviathan the fleeing serpent, Leviathan that twisted serpent; And He will slay the reptile that is in the sea.

Who exactly do you think you're trying to deceive here, the new readers that haven't read your prior posts not knowing what's going on or the things you're teaching? This is the translation you wrote, or should I say fabricated: On 10/1/2017 at 8:31 AM, inchrist said: Mark 13:27 - And he will send his angels and gather his elect from around the globe from one end to the other These are what other translations say. A good majority of them all say "from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven" KJV. None of them say "from the globe" nor "from one end to the other" as you just did in your man-made bible of this passage. http://biblehub.com/mark/13-27.htm New International VersionAnd he will send his angels and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of the heavens. New Living TranslationAnd he will send out his angels to gather his chosen ones from all over the world--from the farthest ends of the earth and heaven. English Standard VersionAnd then he will send out the angels and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of heaven. Berean Study BibleAnd He will send out the angels to gather His elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of heaven. Berean Literal BibleAnd then He will send the angels and will gather together His elect from the four winds, from the end of earth to the end of heaven. New American Standard Bible "And then He will send forth the angels, and will gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest end of the earth to the farthest end of heaven. King James BibleAnd then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven. Holman Christian Standard BibleHe will send out the angels and gather His elect from the four winds, from the end of the earth to the end of the sky. International Standard VersionHe'll send out his angels and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of heaven." NET BibleThen he will send angels and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of heaven. New Heart English BibleThen he will send out his angels, and will gather together his chosen ones from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of the sky. Aramaic Bible in Plain English“Then he will send his Angels and gather his elect ones from the four winds and the bottom of the earth even unto the top of Heaven.” GOD'S WORD® TranslationHe will send out his angels, and from every direction under the sky, they will gather those whom God has chosen. New American Standard 1977 “And then He will send forth the angels, and will gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest end of the earth, to the farthest end of heaven. Jubilee Bible 2000And then shall he send his angels and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth unto the uttermost part of the heaven. King James 2000 BibleAnd then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven. American King James VersionAnd then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven. American Standard VersionAnd then shall he send forth the angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven. Douay-Rheims BibleAnd then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven. Darby Bible Translationand then shall he send his angels and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from end of earth to end of heaven. English Revised VersionAnd then shall he send forth the angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven. Webster's Bible TranslationAnd then he will send his angels, and will assemble his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven. Weymouth New TestamentThen He will send forth the angels and gather together His chosen People from north, south, east and west, from the remotest parts of the earth and the sky. World English BibleThen he will send out his angels, and will gather together his chosen ones from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of the sky. Young's Literal Translationand then he shall send his messengers, and gather together his chosen from the four winds, from the end of the earth unto the end of heaven. Don't pat yourself on the back too hard making yourself sound like a prophet who can guess how I'll respond next because we've already went through this a few days ago. All you ended up doing was ignore the scriptures I've shown you because you had no answer. You'll have to try harder and smarter, and wake up very early in the morning to fool this old dog. I'll repeat this again, in Mark 13:27 the elects of the church are being gathered from heaven and the elects on earth who are the remnants of Israel are being gathered from all over th world. Mark 13:27 King James Version (KJV) 27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven. The elects of the church are raptured, taken into heaven and told to wait until after the indignation in Isaiah 26:19-20. If Christ doesn't send His angels back up to heaven to bring the elects waiting there till after the indignation, how will Christ come with "ALL" of His saints? Zech 14:5 Did you think the bible meant Jesus will come with some of His saints when it said all? Matthew 24:31 King James Version (KJV) 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Isaiah 26:19-21 King James Version (KJV) 19 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead. 20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast. 21 For, behold, the Lord cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain. Inchrist, how do you get a post-trib rapture if the elects on earth (the remnants of Israel) are being gathered to Christ fleeing and not flying. In a rapture, people are being "caught up" into the air. Shouldn't Zechariah 14:4-5 describe the saints flying instead of fleeing? Do you understand what Zechariah 14:4-5 is telling you? How can there be a rapture during the gathering after the tribulation if no one goes up into the air. Those being gathered on earth are on foot fleeing. Zechariah 14:4-5 New King James Version (NKJV) 4 And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, Which faces Jerusalem on the east. And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two, From east to west, Making a very large valley; Half of the mountain shall move toward the north And half of it toward the south. 5 Then you shall flee through My mountain valley, For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal. Yes, you shall flee As you fled from the earthquake In the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Thus the Lord my God will come, And all the saints with You. Now if there's a post-trib rapture during the second coming, why does it say His saints are fleeing? In a rapture, shouldn't Christians be flying in the air to Jesus instead? This version of the second coming also shows Jesus meeting the saints on the Mount of Olives, not in the air in the rapture found in 1 Thes 4:16-17. They are clearly traveling on land by foot as described in Zechariah 14:4-5. inchrist, how do you get a post-trib rapture when the elects on earth are traveling to Jesus by foot at the second coming? Below are more scriptures on the remnant of Israel being gather after the tribulation, do you see anyone flying in the air or anyone being caught up to meet Jesus in the air? Ezekiel 39:21-29 New King James Version (NKJV) 21 “I will set My glory among the nations; all the nations shall see My judgment which I have executed, and My hand which I have laid on them. 22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the Lord their God from that day forward. 23 The Gentiles shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity; because they were unfaithful to Me, therefore I hid My face from them. I gave them into the hand of their enemies, and they all fell by the sword. 24 According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions I have dealt with them, and hidden My face from them.”’ 25 “Therefore thus says the Lord God: ‘Now I will bring back the captives of Jacob, and have mercy on the whole house of Israel; and I will be jealous for My holy name— 26 after they have borne their shame, and all their unfaithfulness in which they were unfaithful to Me, when they dwelt safely in their own land and no one made them afraid. 27 When I have brought them back from the peoples and gathered them out of their enemies’ lands, and I am hallowed in them in the sight of many nations, 28 then they shall know that I am the Lord their God, who sent them into captivity among the nations, but also brought them back to their land, and left none of them captive any longer. 29 And I will not hide My face from them anymore; for I shall have poured out My Spirit on the house of Israel,’ says the Lord God.” Isaiah 49:8-26 New King James Version (NKJV) 8 Thus says the Lord: “In an acceptable time I have heard You, And in the day of salvation I have helped You; I will preserve You and give You As a covenant to the people, To restore the earth, To cause them to inherit the desolate heritages; 9 That You may say to the prisoners, ‘Go forth,’ To those who are in darkness, ‘Show yourselves.’ “They shall feed along the roads, And their pastures shall be on all desolate heights. 10 They shall neither hunger nor thirst, Neither heat nor sun shall strike them; For He who has mercy on them will lead them, Even by the springs of water He will guide them. 11 I will make each of My mountains a road, And My highways shall be elevated. 12 Surely these shall come from afar; Look! Those from the north and the west, And these from the land of Sinim.” 13 Sing, O heavens! Be joyful, O earth! And break out in singing, O mountains! For the Lord has comforted His people, And will have mercy on His afflicted. 14 But Zion said, “The Lord has forsaken me, And my Lord has forgotten me.” 15 “Can a woman forget her nursing child, And not have compassion on the son of her womb? Surely they may forget, Yet I will not forget you. 16 See, I have inscribed you on the palms of My hands; Your walls are continually before Me. 17 Your sons shall make haste; Your destroyers and those who laid you waste Shall go away from you. 18 Lift up your eyes, look around and see; All these gather together and come to you. As I live,” says the Lord, “You shall surely clothe yourselves with them all as an ornament, And bind them on you as a bride does. 19 “For your waste and desolate places, And the land of your destruction, Will even now be too small for the inhabitants; And those who swallowed you up will be far away. 20 The children you will have, After you have lost the others, Will say again in your ears, ‘The place is too small for me; Give me a place where I may dwell.’ 21 Then you will say in your heart, ‘Who has begotten these for me, Since I have lost my children and am desolate, A captive, and wandering to and fro? And who has brought these up? There I was, left alone; But these, where were they?’” 22 Thus says the Lord God: “Behold, I will lift My hand in an oath to the nations, And set up My standard for the peoples; They shall bring your sons in their arms, And your daughters shall be carried on theirshoulders; 23 Kings shall be your foster fathers, And their queens your nursing mothers; They shall bow down to you with their faces to the earth, And lick up the dust of your feet. Then you will know that I am the Lord, For they shall not be ashamed who wait for Me.” 24 Shall the prey be taken from the mighty, Or the captives of the righteous be delivered? 25 But thus says the Lord: “Even the captives of the mighty shall be taken away, And the prey of the terrible be delivered; For I will contend with him who contends with you, And I will save your children. 26 I will feed those who oppress you with their own flesh, And they shall be drunk with their own blood as with sweet wine. All flesh shall know That I, the Lord, am your Savior, And your Redeemer, the Mighty One of Jacob.” Jeremiah 32:37-42 New King James Version (NKJV) 37 Behold, I will gather them out of all countries where I have driven them in My anger, in My fury, and in great wrath; I will bring them back to this place, and I will cause them to dwell safely. 38 They shall be My people, and I will be their God; 39 then I will give them one heart and one way, that they may fear Me forever, for the good of them and their children after them. 40 And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from doing them good; but I will put My fear in their hearts so that they will not depart from Me. 41 Yes, I will rejoice over them to do them good, and I will assuredly plant them in this land, with all My heart and with all My soul.’ 42 “For thus says the Lord: ‘Just as I have brought all this great calamity on this people, so I will bring on them all the good that I have promised them. Isaiah 27:12-13 New King James Version (NKJV) 12 And it shall come to pass in that day That the Lord will thresh, From the channel of the River to the Brook of Egypt; And you will be gathered one by one, O you children of Israel. 13 So it shall be in that day: The great trumpet will be blown; They will come, who are about to perish in the land of Assyria, And they who are outcasts in the land of Egypt, And shall worship the Lord in the holy mount at Jerusalem. Zephaniah 3:8-20 New King James Version (NKJV) 8 “Therefore wait for Me,” says the Lord, “Until the day I rise up for plunder; My determination is to gather the nations To My assembly of kingdoms, To pour on them My indignation, All My fierce anger; All the earth shall be devoured With the fire of My jealousy. 9 “For then I will restore to the peoples a pure language, That they all may call on the name of the Lord, To serve Him with one accord. 10 From beyond the rivers of Ethiopia My worshipers, The daughter of My dispersed ones, Shall bring My offering. 11 In that day you shall not be shamed for any of your deeds In which you transgress against Me; For then I will take away from your midst Those who rejoice in your pride, And you shall no longer be haughty In My holy mountain. 12 I will leave in your midst A meek and humble people, And they shall trust in the name of the Lord. 13 The remnant of Israel shall do no unrighteousness And speak no lies, Nor shall a deceitful tongue be found in their mouth; For they shall feed their flocks and lie down, And no one shall make them afraid.” 14 Sing, O daughter of Zion! Shout, O Israel! Be glad and rejoice with all your heart, O daughter of Jerusalem! 15 The Lord has taken away your judgments, He has cast out your enemy. The King of Israel, the Lord, is in your midst; You shall see disaster no more. 16 In that day it shall be said to Jerusalem: “Do not fear; Zion, let not your hands be weak. 17 The Lord your God in your midst, The Mighty One, will save; He will rejoice over you with gladness, He will quiet you with His love, He will rejoice over you with singing.” 18 “I will gather those who sorrow over the appointed assembly, Who are among you, To whom its reproach is a burden. 19 Behold, at that time I will deal with all who afflict you; I will save the lame, And gather those who were driven out; I will appoint them for praise and fame In every land where they were put to shame. 20 At that time I will bring you back, Even at the time I gather you; For I will give you fame and praise Among all the peoples of the earth, When I return your captives before your eyes,” Says the Lord. Micah 2:12 New King James Version (NKJV) 12 “I will surely assemble all of you, O Jacob, I will surely gather the remnant of Israel; I will put them together like sheep of the fold, Like a flock in the midst of their pasture; They shall make a loud noise because of so many people. Jeremiah 50:4-5 New King James Version (NKJV) 4 “In those days and in that time,” says the Lord, “The children of Israel shall come, They and the children of Judah together; With continual weeping they shall come, And seek the Lord their God. 5 They shall ask the way to Zion, With their faces toward it, saying, ‘Come and let us join ourselves to the Lord In a perpetual covenant That will not be forgotten.’ Psalm 106:46-47 New King James Version (NKJV) 46 He also made them to be pitied By all those who carried them away captive. 47 Save us, O Lord our God, And gather us from among the Gentiles, To give thanks to Your holy name, To triumph in Your praise. Amos 9:11-15 New King James Version (NKJV) 11 “On that day I will raise up The tabernacle of David, which has fallen down, And repair its damages; I will raise up its ruins, And rebuild it as in the days of old; 12 That they may possess the remnant of Edom, And all the Gentiles who are called by My name,” Says the Lord who does this thing. 13 “Behold, the days are coming,” says the Lord, “When the plowman shall overtake the reaper, And the treader of grapes him who sows seed; The mountains shall drip with sweet wine, And all the hills shall flow with it. 14 I will bring back the captives of My people Israel; They shall build the waste cities and inhabitthem; They shall plant vineyards and drink wine from them; They shall also make gardens and eat fruit from them. 15 I will plant them in their land, And no longer shall they be pulled up From the land I have given them,” Says the Lord your God. You totally stuck your foot in your mouth big time here. It's figuratively comparing the beauty and elegance of the New Jerusalem decked in righteousness as a worthy bride. Do you have any idea what the brightness means in the robe the bride is wearing? I don't think so, even if the answer was staring right in front of you. I'll bet you your man-made bible you'll ignore this question too. Revelation 19:7-8 New King James Version (NKJV) 7 Let us be glad and rejoice and give Him glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has made herself ready.” 8 And to her it was granted to be arrayed in fine linen, clean and bright, for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints. Other than telling us it's describing a city, I'll bet you your man-made bible you don't know what Revelation 21:9-21 is really telling us............so now what? Revelation 21:2 New King James Version (NKJV) 2 Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

Again I'm asking you, which translation is this taken from or are you just fabricating the bible again this time changing the wordings in Mark 13:27? Unbelievable! So now the church is the 12 tribes of Israel. Why don't you just throw the gentile church out the window as if we never existed. We've already conclude your teachings are falsely misleading, sinister and destructive to other readers who are easy preys that don't know any better. Readers beware! Romans 16:17-18 New King James Version (NKJV) 17 Now I urge you, brethren, note those who cause divisions and offenses, contrary to the doctrine which you learned, and avoid them. 18 For those who are such do not serve our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly, and by smooth words and flattering speech deceive the hearts of the simple. Acts 20:29 New King James Version (NKJV) 29 For I know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock. Ephesians 5:11 New King James Version (NKJV) 11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them. 2 John 10 New King James Version (NKJV) 10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him; Titus 1:10-14 New King James Version (NKJV) 10 For there are many insubordinate, both idle talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision, 11 whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole households, teaching things which they ought not, for the sake of dishonest gain. 12 One of them, a prophet of their own, said, “Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons.” 13 This testimony is true. Therefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith, 14 not giving heed to Jewish fables and commandments of men who turn from the truth.

On 10/1/2017 at 8:31 AM, inchrist said: Further in Mark, the context of the phrase four winds is the ends of the Earth & Sky. This is a phrase to describe the globe In short Mark and Matthew are telling us the following: Mark 13:27 - And he will send his angels and gather his elect from around the globe from one end to the other Again, what bible translation on Mark 13:27 is this from? What translation actually say: And he will send his angels and gather his elect from around the globe from one end to the other It doesn't say Christ has two brides here. Again, what's your point?

Are you gonna answer the question or dilly dally like always when confronted with this question? Are you manipulating the bible again? And where in the bible does it say Christ has two brides? So what's your point?