Waggles

Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no more sacrifice remaineth for sins, 10:27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and a fierceness of fire which shall devour the adversaries. 10:28 One that hath set at nought Moses’ law dieth without compassion on the word of two or three witnesses: 10:29 of how much sorer punishment, think ye, shall he be judged worthy, who hath trodden under the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant wherewith he was sanctified common, and hath insulted the Spirit of grace? 10:30 For we know him that said, Vengeance is mine, I will recompense. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. 10:31 Fearful ‘tis to fall into the living God’s hands.

Hebrews 6:1 Wherefore leaving the word of the beginning of the Christ, let us be borne on unto the perfection; not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,- 6:2 the teaching of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. 6:3 And this will we do, if only God permit. 6:4 For as to those who were once enlightened and tasted of the heavenly gift, and became partakers of the Holy Spirit, 6:5 and tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the age to come, 6:6 and fell away, it is impossible to renew them again unto repentance; they crucifying again to themselves and openly shaming the Son of God.

The trouble for you is that your "you" is not in the original Greek (NENT) We are ambassadors therefore on behalf of Christ, as though God were entreating by us: we beseech on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. We = Pentecostal Christians in the body of Christ followed by ... we (Paul and Timothy) beseech you ... those in the church in Corinth.

2Corinthians 5:20 (ESV) Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. (LITV) Then on behalf of Christ, we are ambassadors, as God is exhorting through us, we beseech on behalf of Christ, Be reconciled to God. (NENT) We are ambassadors therefore on behalf of Christ, as though *God were entreating by us: we beseech on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to *God. (WEB) We are therefore ambassadors on behalf of Christ, as though God were entreating by us: we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. (Weymouth) On Christ's behalf therefore we come as ambassadors, God, as it were, making entreaty through our lips: we, on Christ's behalf, beseech men to be reconciled to God. (YLT) in behalf of Christ, then, we are ambassadors, as if God were calling through us, we beseech, in behalf of Christ, 'Be ye reconciled to God;' We are "therefore, if anyone is in Christ" Pentecostal Christians and ye (you all) are again the same > the Spirit-filled church of believers.

Yes you can lose your salvation. @Jaydub I agree with you and err on the side of scripture to learn and grow and to bear much fruit. Apart from wishful reading of scriptures through rose coloured glasses - that is imposing OSAS doctrine upon scripture - the epistles written to the Pentecostal church of the first century are all about how to stay saved, with numerous exhortations and warnings on enduring in faith and righteousness. That may well be true BUT God has not saved robots - his salvation is for free willed and free thinking humans who must make the effort themselves to continue to love both God (for his grace and salvation) and to love other peoples (even nasty ones). In fact the letters to the seven churches clearly debunk any notions of OSAS - to the extent that a disciple can have their name blotted out from the book of life. Salvation is a lifelong commitment and a believer must endure (by their patience, not God's patience, ours) until the end. This is the law of liberty. Luke 9:62 And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God. Hebrews 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. 10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul. 1Tim 1:19 Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck: 1:20 Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.

I guess we ain't writing about water baptism anymore? Anyway last word - given the truth of scripture yes a disciple MUST be baptised in water for the forgiveness of sins. Acts 22:14 And he [Ananias] said, ‘The God of our fathers appointed you to know his will, to see the Righteous One and to hear a voice from his mouth; 22:15 for you will be a witness for him to everyone of what you have seen and heard. 22:16 And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on his name.’ same as Acts 2:38 thank God I know that the Word of God [Jesus] is true.

And I thought water baptism was complicated enough?

Wow this should be interesting!! So tell us of the lies and deceit contained in the word of God - in contrast to what 1Timothy 3:16 claims.

Acts 9:17 So Ananias departed and entered the house. And laying his hands on him he said, “Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus who appeared to you on the road by which you came has sent me so that you may regain your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.” 18 And immediately something like scales fell from his eyes, and he regained his sight. Then he rose and was baptized; Acts 22:15 for you will be a witness for him to everyone of what you have seen and heard. 16 And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on his name.’

That is a denial of the scriptures. And as for your thoughts on Philip and the eunuch - well let me be polite in the nicest way possible - supposition, reading into scripture fanciful doctrine.

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came to them and spake to them, saying, All authority hath been given me in heaven and on earth. 28:19 Go therefore, and disciple all the nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit: 28:20 teaching them to keep all things whatsoever I commanded you: and lo, I am with you all the days till the consummation of the age. and what must I do to become a Christian disciple given the above scripture? Brethren, what shall we do? Acts 2:38 And Peter said unto them, Repent and be baptized each of you in the name of Jesus Christ unto remission of your sins; and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 2:39 For to you is the promise, and to your *children, and to all that are afar off, as many as the Lord our *God shall call unto him. Acts 2:41 They then that received his word were baptized: and in that day were added about three thousand souls. Acts 19:4 And Paul said, John baptized a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe unto him that should come after him, that is, unto Jesus. 19:5 And when they heard this, they were baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus.

Hebrews 6: 1 Wherefore leaving the word of the beginning of the Christ, let us be borne on unto the perfection; not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,- 2 the teaching of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. 3 And this will we do, if only God permit.

NO - God insists on the necessity for water baptism. Baptism is of deep spiritual significance and the scriptures 1: command us to do so 2: inform us that it is for the remission of our sins 3: the Christians that we read of in Acts and the epistles are all baptised in water and baptised in the Holy Spirit 4: Jesus himself was baptised in water to fullfil all righteousness and then baptised in the Holy Spirit. Luke 18:16 But Jesus called them to him, saying, “Let the children come to me, and do not hinder them, for to such belongs the kingdom of God. 17 Truly, I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child shall not enter it.”

Are you proposing OSAS ?

Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? 6:2 By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it? 6:3 Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 6:4 We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life. 6:5 For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his. 6:6 We know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin.

BUT one does believe in Christ Jesus when they are baptised? They publicly declare there faith in the gospel of Jesus Christ and his saving grace. Then when they come up from the waters of baptism they are forgiven their sins. It is in the scriptures.

Not that different - I still lick my fingers after a Red Rooster chicken meal.

The enemy knows a lot more about our sin nature and how to knife us and to lure us away from righteousness. I wish I had no sin nature that could contend with the new man, but alas the dark side of the force only knows too well my many evils before I came to the Lord. And out of the blue from nowhere a memory, a desire, a reaching for the candy comes upon me and I need to sternly utter "Get thee behind me satan in the name of Jesus" for this to pass. And it does pass and I can thank Jesus for his power over the enemy. Romans 7:22 For I delight in the law of God, in my inner being, 23 but I see in my members another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members. 24 Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?

Beware the dark side, Luke.

Water baptism is not done to earn salvation - one undergoes water baptism because God wants us to do this. Water baptism is clearly explained in the scriptures as being done for the remissions [forgiveness] of our sins. Death to our previous lives; burial (dead in Christ); and resurrection to a new life - a clean slate; our sins not remembered by God. Then comes the need for baptism of the Holy Spirit to empower us to achieve this new life in Christ Jesus. Salvation is a promise that we look forward to and achieving through God: to either die in the Lord, or to be transformed and to rise up to meet the Lord in the air when he returns. We do not obtain salvation on a particular day when we believed or whatever, but it is the first day of being saved and walking with God. A lifelong commitment that unfortunately many many Christians fail at. 2Tim 4:6 For I am already being poured out as a drink offering, and the time of my departure has come. 4:7 I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. 4:8 Henceforth there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, will award to me on that day, and not only to me but also to all who have loved his appearing.

Many an opinion on the scriptures but I stand by my man Jesus who himself was water baptised and also baptised in the Holy Spirit. Good enough for me. I am a disciple and so I follow my Master's example. This is the template of obedience in accord with Acts 2: 38 to become a Pentecostal Christian: Matthew 3:13 Then Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan to John, to be baptized by him. 14 John would have prevented him, saying, “I need to be baptized by you, and do you come to me?” 15 But Jesus answered him, “Let it be so now, for thus it is fitting for us to fullfil all righteousness.” Then he consented. 16 And when Jesus was baptized, immediately he went up from the water, and behold, the heavens were opened to him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and coming to rest on him; 17 and behold, a voice from heaven said, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased.” Matthew 4:1 Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. And this is still happening today. People hear the gospel preached to them, they respond hopefully towards repentance and desiring salvation > they get baptised in water confessing their faith in Jesus as Lord and Saviour for the remission of their sins (that is scripture) > they ask/seek for the gift of the Holy Spirit and when they are baptised in the Holy Spirit they do speak in a new tongue as Jesus promised. Then we become sons and daughters of our Father in Heaven and are led by the Spirit unto good works pleasing to God. Stick to the programme.

Baptism - coming up out of water to new life - from the very beginning it is symbolic of new life - Genesis 1:7 And God made the expanse and separated the waters that were under the expanse from the waters that were above the expanse. And it was so. 8 And God called the expanse Heaven. And there was evening and there was morning, the second day. 9 And God said, “Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear.” And it was so. 10 God called the dry land Earth, and the waters that were gathered together he called Seas. And God saw that it was good. followed by new life >> 11 And God said, “Let the earth sprout vegetation, plants yielding seed, and fruit trees bearing fruit in which is their seed, each according to its kind, on the earth.” And it was so. 2Peter 3:5 For they deliberately overlook this fact, that the heavens existed long ago, and the earth was formed out of water and through water by the word of God, 2Pe 3:6 and that by means of these the world that then existed was deluged with water and perished. [immersion = death and burial] then comes new life Genesis 8:15 Then God said to Noah, 16 “Go out from the ark, you and your wife, and your sons and your sons' wives with you. 17 Bring out with you every living thing that is with you of all flesh—birds and animals and every creeping thing that creeps on the earth—that they may swarm on the earth, and be fruitful and multiply on the earth.” 18 So Noah went out, and his sons and his wife and his sons' wives with him. 19 Every beast, every creeping thing, and every bird, everything that moves on the earth, went out by families from the ark.