Waggles

GENESIS ONE The creation of the world 1: Day one The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters. And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. the first day is LIGHT and darkness - this is spiritual light not physical light (the presence of God [Jesus] in space and time. 2: Day two > “sky” or "the heavens" - [Let there be a firmament, an expansion, so the Hebrew word signifies, like a sheet spread, or a curtain drawn out. This includes all that is visible above the earth between it and the third heavens: the air] The second day waters are separated as being below the sky allowing the atmosphere to be above the waters that cover the entire planet. 3: Day three > Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear. And God said, “Let the earth sprout vegetation, plants yielding seed, and fruit trees bearing fruit in which is their seed, each according to its kind, on the earth.” And it was so. Land comes up out of the waters and new life flourishes ( a type of baptism here?) note also that plant life flourished but as yet our Sun has not yet been created. 4: Day four > And God made the two great lights - the greater light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night - and the stars. MADE > H6213 עָשָׂה ‛âśâh A primitive root; to do or make, in the broadest sense and widest application: - accomplish, advance, appoint, apt, be at, become, bear, bestow, bring forth [not to create out of nothing but to make from stuff that already exists] Did the rest of the universe already exist from verse 1 and perhaps just our solar system is made for us? The word for stars - H3556 - could mean the planets. Day 5 > So God created the great sea creatures and every living creature that moves, with which the waters swarm, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. Day 6 > “Let the earth bring forth living creatures according to their kinds - livestock and creeping things and beasts of the earth according to their kinds.” > And God made the beasts of the earth [note that God does not create beasts and animals but rather that he makes them from pre-existing matter; the earth]. As opposed to the following: Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them. Here we are informed that God created men and women at the same time. CREATED > H1254 בָּרָא bârâ' A primitive root; (absolutely) to create; (qualified) to cut down (a wood), select, feed (as formative processes): - choose, create (creator), cut down, dispatch, do, make (fat). Total KJV occurrences: 54 > this is important because it is not the word used in regard to Adam and then Eve in Genesis 2. Note also that the first and second days were periods of time before the making of the Sun and Moon to let them be for signs and for seasons, and for days and years. DAY > H3117 יוֹם yôm From an unused root meaning to be hot; a day (as the warm hours), whether literally (from sunrise to sunset, or from one sunset to the next), or figuratively (a space of time defined by an associated term), (often used adverbially): - age, + always, + chronicles, continually (-ance), daily, ([birth-], each, to) day, (now a, two) days (agone), + elder, X end, + evening, + (for) ever (-lasting, -more), X full, life, as (so) long as (. . . live), (even) now, + old, + outlived, + perpetually, presently, + remaineth, X required, season, X since, space, then, (process of) time, + as at other times, + in trouble, weather, (as) when, (a, the, within a) while (that), X whole (+ age), (full) year (-ly), + younger. Total KJV occurrences: 2295

We digress from the OP - I suggest if others want to chat about Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 then that should be a new thread.

As Dr Michael Heiser teaches learn from reading scripture rather than reading into scripture your beliefs. You should not be scared of me as I am not alone in the knowledge of their being pre-Adamic people; for you cannot derive the diversity of the human races from supposedly two adults alone nor do we want to entertain notions of evolution.

Before Adam (Genesis 2) God created other human beings (Genesis 1). There is a great deal of evidence in archaeology and anthropology to indicate 40,000 is the history of "modern" human beings. So the first peoples of creation were hunters and gatherers and of different racial types. Thus the diversity of humankind is not a story of evolution.

Yes it is called Bible prophecy and us being in the last of last days. Time is running out for everybody. Malachi 4:1 “For behold, the day is coming, burning like an oven, when all the arrogant and all evildoers will be stubble. The day that is coming shall set them ablaze, says the LORD of hosts, so that it will leave them neither root nor branch. 2 But for you who fear my name, the sun of righteousness shall rise with healing in its wings. You shall go out leaping like calves from the stall. 3 And you shall tread down the wicked, for they will be ashes under the soles of your feet, on the day when I act, says the LORD of hosts. Psalm 21:9 You will make them as a blazing oven when you appear. The LORD will swallow them up in his wrath, and fire will consume them. 10 You will destroy their descendants from the earth, and their offspring from among the children of man. Nahum 1:5 The mountains quake before him; the hills melt; the earth heaves before him, the world and all who dwell in it. 6 Who can stand before his indignation? Who can endure the heat of his anger? His wrath is poured out like fire, and the rocks are broken into pieces by him.

Yes some of us have travelled the world and know of Hinduism and Islam and Buddhism first hand. How are you going to make the world better? This world is doomed. Judgement is at the door. This world will burn. You cannot save yourself, let alone the world.

John 14:6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. So where does that leave the Hindu or the Muslim or the Buddhist? 2Thess 1:7 and to grant relief to you who are afflicted as well as to us, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels 8 in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might, 10 when he comes on that day to be glorified in his saints, and to be marvelled at among all who have believed, because our testimony to you was believed. It is not Vishnu, nor Zeus, nor Allah, nor any other god that people need to fear. In the end there is only one God of judgement and salvation - Christ Jesus who died and was raised from the dead and sits on the right hand of God the Father.

You will not find the truth through intellect and academic pursuit. For the truth of God is spiritual and can only be gained by becoming spiritual in God. That is why believers or disciples MUST be born of the Spirit - to have a personal relationship with the God of salvation - God dwelling in the believer and a believer spiritually connected into God - living water - signs, wonders miracles, healings, spiritual prayer language, spiritual gifts, prophecy. Of course Hindus believe Hinduism to be true and Muslims believe in Islam and so on. But just because other world religions exist does not make them true. Freemasons and those into the occult have also spiritual experiences but that does not make this true and of God. Not all spiritual beings are benevolent and have our best interests in mind. There are evil beings in the world and false religion is their game. In 1917 at Fatima in Portugal, one of the most spectacular "miracles" in history took place. Mary the mother of God appeared to 3 small children and gave to them various warnings about world events. On 13th October 1917 some 50,000 people witnessed spectacular supernatural events including the Sun moving erratically in the sky. Thousands fell to their knees and crossed themselves and became rededicated Roman Catholics full of faith. But was this from God? How does Fatima fit in with other Bible prophecy and the essence of the Jesus message? Many would rightly argue that Fatima does not. 2Thess 2:9 The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders, John 8:44 You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies. Jesus referring to 'the adversary' 1Peter 5:8 Be sober-minded; be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour. 1Cor 1:18 For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written, “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and the discernment of the discerning I will thwart.” 20 Where is the one who is wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? Others have posted on this thread some pretty substantial posts concerning your OP; but I get the impression that you have not really bothered to read and study these. Pity.

Rev 18:10 They will stand far off, in fear of her torment, and say, “Alas! Alas! You great city, you mighty city, Babylon! For in a single hour your judgment has come.” 18:16 “Alas, alas, for the great city that was clothed in fine linen, in purple and scarlet, adorned with gold, with jewels, and with pearls! 17 For in a single hour all this wealth has been laid waste.” And all shipmasters and seafaring men, sailors and all whose trade is on the sea, stood far off 18 and cried out as they saw the smoke of her burning, “What city was like the great city?” 18:21 Then a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone and threw it into the sea, saying, “So will Babylon the great city be thrown down with violence, and will be found no more; 18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets and of saints, and of all who have been slain on earth.” The city that sits on seven hills is Rome and her daughter Roman Catholicism is responsible for the blood of prophets and of saints, and those slain by her conquering warriors - remember the Conquistadors, the Crusades, the Jesuits and the Knights Templars?

That is a very secular source and whilst a timeline of religious worship, burials and writings in the end it is irrelevant to the truth of God and Heaven. Proverbs 8:1 Does not wisdom call? Does not understanding raise her voice? 4 “To you, O men, I call, and my cry is to the children of man. 5 O simple ones, learn prudence; O fools, learn sense. 6 Hear, for I will speak noble things, and from my lips will come what is right, 7 for my mouth will utter truth; wickedness is an abomination to my lips. 8 All the words of my mouth are righteous; there is nothing twisted or crooked in them. 9 They are all straight to him who understands, and right to those who find knowledge. 10 Take my instruction instead of silver, and knowledge rather than choice gold, 11 for wisdom is better than jewels, and all that you may desire cannot compare with her. 22 “The LORD possessed me at the beginning of his work, the first of his acts of old. 23 Ages ago I was set up, at the first, before the beginning of the earth. 24 When there were no depths I was brought forth, when there were no springs abounding with water. 25 Before the mountains had been shaped, before the hills, I was brought forth, 26 before he had made the earth with its fields, or the first of the dust of the world. 27 When he established the heavens, I was there; when he drew a circle on the face of the deep, 28 when he made firm the skies above, when he established the fountains of the deep, 29 when he assigned to the sea its limit, so that the waters might not transgress his command, when he marked out the foundations of the earth, 30 then I was beside him, like a master workman, and I was daily his delight, rejoicing before him always, 31 rejoicing in his inhabited world and delighting in the children of man. 32 “And now, O sons, listen to me: blessed are those who keep my ways. 33 Hear instruction and be wise, and do not neglect it. 34 Blessed is the one who listens to me, watching daily at my gates, waiting beside my doors. 35 For whoever finds me finds life and obtains favour from the LORD, 36 but he who fails to find me injures himself; all who hate me love death.”

Who are they?

Just a repost from my blog on page two - the sin unto death is to deny and blaspheme the gospel of salvation by impugning the work of the Holy Spirit as being from satan and demons. And these days many churches accuse Pentecostal faith, speaking in tongues and the working of miracles as not being of God but as diabolic.

Sorry you lost me. What are you writing here?

Yes it performances like this that obscure the real work of the Holy Spirit in Christian life today. Falling down and other weird behaviours are not recorded in the NT. When believers were baptised in the Holy Spirit they spoke in tongues and went on to enjoy miracles and healings from God by his Spirit. And people were transformed in their hearts and minds and learned of righteousness, love unto others, and good works pleasing to God. Not all Pentecostal churches are out of order; and my church would not describe ourselves as charismatic. We operate a prayer line (not just manned by pastors) and people come forward for prayer. There are simply prayers given in English and/or in tongues. No one falls down and certainly no one is slain in the Spirit. People just return to their seats. Some are healed instantly and some are not. Some twenty years ago my wife was in palliative care, on her death bed. On Saturday my sons and I visited her to say our goodbyes. The next day we went to our Pentecostal worship meeting and went out to the prayer line to pray for Angela. On the Monday Angela came home. I can still remember my mouth falling open and gaping as I watched her walk across the lawn towards the front door.

Yes there are disciplined Pentecostals that are sober and restrained following exactly the directions laid out in scripture on proper conduct individually and for orderly worship. And then there are those who do not discipline themselves against the teachings of scripture and believe in transcending the word of God and allowing themselves to become 'free spirits'. Unfortunately, mainstream churches see the circuses and bizarre behaviours of those that have moved on beyond scripture and are appalled. No wonder the truth is spoken evil of in these last days. I was witnessing to a woman who replied, "Oh yes I have come across your church before. You're those people who are in bondage to the Word." But thankfully she being a free spirit was able to resist being drawn into a church that stood on the word of God. But as an outsider I observe that religion in the U.S.A. has always been problematic and weird. The Mormons! The Jehovah Witnesses, Waco, snake handlers, holy rollers, charismatic experiences, along with mega churches that are big business. Where else can you have a man of God becoming a billionaire with a fleet of private jets but in America? But in the midst of all the disorderly and dysfunctional the full gospel of salvation is being preached and men and women throughout the world are experiencing again the book of Acts. Holy Spirit Pentecostal revival is sweeping across the world. Yes even in Islamic nations and India and China.

Well that is simply not true. Of course the sin of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is occurring today; much more than most people realise. Many Christian churches teach that the work of the Holy Spirit today is demonic and of false miracles. While the Jehovah Witnesses may be the most vocal in their denunciation of miracles and healings today, they are not alone. Indeed most mainstream churches attack Pentecostal faith and worship as demonic. Not from God. Even here on Worthy forums many are not shy to denounce praying in tongues and the gifts of the Holy Spirit as fake, false and from the enemy and not of God. Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit - attributing the power and work of God in the body of Christ, his Spirit-filled churches, to satan and of devils is blasphemy. But when worldly Christians see miracles and healings done by Pentecostal Christians they are seeing Jesus in action; the power of God through the indwelling Holy Spirit blessing those who are prayed over and raised up. The claim that such is of satan is to impugn a Pentecostal Christian with having 'an impure spirit' and not the Holy Spirit of Christ Jesus. Praying in tongues is miraculous, a spiritual language of God and the angels given to every true worshipper baptised in the Holy Spirit. We can read of this in Acts and the epistles, and yet many choose to call this out and blaspheme this God given sign spoken of by Jesus himself, as satanic and un-Godly. That is another blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

You must have a different Bible to mine. I do not have a Revelation chapter 24.

But sin is not a specific city.

Rev 17:3 And he carried me away in the Spirit into a wilderness, and I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast that was full of blasphemous names, and it had seven heads and ten horns. 4 The woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and jewels and pearls, holding in her hand a golden cup full of abominations and the impurities of her sexual immorality. 5 And on her forehead was written a name of mystery: “Babylon the great, mother of prostitutes and of earth's abominations.” 6 And I saw the woman, drunk with the blood of the saints, the blood of the martyrs of Jesus. When I saw her, I marvelled greatly. Rev 17:9 This calls for a mind with wisdom: the seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman is seated; [Rome is famous for its seven hills which are all named] Rev 17:18 And the woman that you saw is the great city that has dominion over the kings of the earth. The ten horns refers to the ten "lost" tribes of northern kingdom of Israel dispersed eventually into Europe.

I have a few of his books, which first began with 'The Unseen Realm.' “There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.” – Hamlet I found much that Michael Heiser wrote about was already understood and taught in Pentecostalism. Obviously not as academic with citing Biblical studies, but nevertheless a reasonable acknowledgement that there are many players in the spiritual realm (for and against us).

One of the truths about religions arises out of the rebellion against God by angels (ostensibly lead by Lucifer to use his Latin name). A study of world religions brings up two fundamentals: 1: creation stories by all peoples, can be seen as devolution and corruption of the knowledge about the Creation of the world by God [Jesus] in the beginning. So after some 40,000 years of history and a great deal of interference by these fallen angels original knowledge becomes fanciful stories that anthropologists collect as creation myths. 2: examining the civilization religions of the world, such as Hinduism, Islam, Buddhism, Shintoism, Daoism, Shingyo, there are many commonalities in doctrine and worship that they share. How is this so? And is this proof of truth? Deu 32:6 Do you thus repay the LORD, you foolish and senseless people? Is not he your father, who created you, who made you and established you? 7 Remember the days of old; consider the years of many generations; ask your father, and he will show you, your elders, and they will tell you. 8 When the Most High gave to the nations their inheritance, when he divided mankind, he fixed the borders of the peoples according to the number of the sons of God. [the sons of God = to angels/ spiritual beings] 9 But the LORD's portion is his people, Jacob his allotted heritage. 10 “He found him in a desert land, and in the howling waste of the wilderness; he encircled him, he cared for him, he kept him as the apple of his eye. Here God is telling both his Divine Council in Heaven and us that the world was given over to these fallen angels to rule as this is what they wanted, BUT God shall reserve a portion of the world for himself > Jacob > Israel > Jerusalem > and God will redeem the nations from sin by the atoning sacrifice of his son, Jesus, (and through the saving grace of the gospel). Which is why the gospel of salvation must be preached throughout the entire world - and then the end will come. Hence the calling out of Abraham from Ur (Babylon) to begin this. TRUTH - Jesus is the truth and the way. No other religion has the transforming power of the gospel to convert the un-Godly into God fearing righteous peoples who are zealous of good works. Mark 16:17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: in my name they will cast out demons; they will speak in new tongues; the gospel is proven true and upheld to be of the God of salvation by these signs and the many miracles, healings and blessings that Spirit-filled Christians receive. Spirit-filled Christians have remarkable testimonies of being converted by the gospel and the indwelling Holy Spirit - experiencing a personal relationship with God, not just an intellectual or social/cultural commitment to religion and faith. John 8:32 and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.

Luke 21:34 “But watch yourselves lest your hearts be weighed down with dissipation and drunkenness and cares of this life, and that day come upon you suddenly like a trap. 35 For it will come upon all who dwell on the face of the whole earth. 36 But stay awake at all times, praying that you may have strength to escape all these things that are going to take place, and to stand before the Son of Man.” Dissipation - the act of dissipating. a wasting by misuse: the dissipation of a fortune. mental distraction; amusement; diversion. dissolute way of living, especially excessive drinking of liquor; intemperance.

No this is a warning for disciples to persevere. For the last days will be dreadful (most likely nuclear war) and many will faint and backslide. Our job is to uphold our testimonies and to preach the gospel right up to the last day. Martyrdom for some most likely, but not everybody. Matt 25:1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom. 2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish. 3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them: 4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. 5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept. 6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him. 7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps. 8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out. 9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves. 10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut. 11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us. 12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not. 13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh. 1Cor 15:58 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, be steadfast, unmovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that your toil is not vain in the Lord.

Matt 24:10 And then many will fall away and betray one another and hate one another. 11 And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. 12 And because lawlessness will be increased, the love of many will grow cold. 13 But the one who endures to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come. (Weymouth) but those who stand firm to the End shall be saved. (YLT) but he who did endure to the end, he shall be saved; One day at a time folks, one day at a time.

Here is another clue and indicator of who exactly MYSTERY BABYLON is referring to 17:6 And I saw the woman, drunk with the blood of the saints, the blood of the martyrs of Jesus. When I saw her, I marvelled greatly. No other church has so much blood on their hands as the RCC who have slaughtered heretics, Bible translators, "witches," reformers, Protestants by the millions. Yes that is correct millions of people burnt at the stake, tortured to death, put to the sword St. Bartholomew's Day massacre - the slaughter of French Huguenots protestants by the RCC in in 1572 was a targeted group of assassinations and a wave of Catholic mob violence, directed against the Huguenots (French Calvinist Protestants) during the French Wars of Religion. Traditionally believed to have been instigated by Queen Catherine de' Medici, the mother of King Charles IX, the massacre took place a few days after the wedding day (18 August) of the king's sister Margaret to the Protestant Henry of Navarre (the future Henry IV of France). Many of the most wealthy and prominent Huguenots had gathered in largely Catholic Paris to attend the wedding. Pope Gregory XIII had a gold medallion struck to celebrate the massacre. 1479 the Spanish Inquisition begins ... now there is a tale of butchery. On Friday, October 6th, 1536 William Tyndale was brought to the cross in the middle of the town square and given a chance to recant. That refused, he was given a moment to pray. English historian John Foxe said he cried out, "Lord, open the King of England's eyes!" Then he was bound to the beam, and both an iron chain and a rope were put around his neck. Gunpowder was added to the brush and logs. At the signal of a local official, the executioner, standing behind Tyndale, quickly tightened the noose, strangling him. Then an official took up a lighted torch and handed it to the executioner, who set the wood ablaze. - His crime was translating the Bible into English so that the people could read it. When Mary became Queen of England, she worked to bring England back to the Roman Catholic Church. One of her first acts was to arrest Bishop Ridley, Bishop Latimer, and Archbishop Thomas Cranmer. After serving time in the Tower of London, the three were taken to Oxford in September of 1555 to be examined by the Lord's Commissioner in Oxford's Divinity School. When Ridley was asked if he believed the Pope was heir to the authority of Peter as the foundation of the Church, he replied that the church was not built on any man but on the truth Peter confessed -- that Christ was the Son of God. Ridley said he could not honour the Pope in Rome since the papacy was seeking its own glory, not the glory of God. Neither Ridley nor Latimer could accept the Roman Catholic mass as a sacrifice of Christ. Latimer told the commissioners, "Christ made one oblation and sacrifice for the sins of the whole world, and that a perfect sacrifice; neither needeth there to be, nor can there be, any other propitiatory sacrifice." These opinions were deeply offensive to Roman Catholic theologians. Both Ridley and Latimer were burned at the stake in Oxford on this day, October 16, 1555. As he was being tied to the stake, Ridley prayed, "Oh, heavenly Father, I give unto thee most hearty thanks that thou hast called me to be a professor of thee, even unto death. I beseech thee, Lord God, have mercy on this realm of England, and deliver it from all her enemies." And the list over history just goes on and on and on and on ....