Still Alive

Though I agree with the general position you hold there, I disagree with one part. You mention death coming into the world after Adam. And I agree. But I believe the word, "world", could also be discussing the age the bible is talking about. The one that started about 6,000 years ago. But if there were any ages before that, it may not apply. That's one of the things I'm talking about. I find that often people don't differ on what the bible says, but differ on interpretation. Since world doesn't necessarily mean "earth", it is possible that "world" in the verse you brought up, death came into THIS world/age through Adam's sin. And as far as we are concerned, that is the only world that matters, from a biblical perspective. In fact, I think a lot of what the bible tells us about the past and future may need an implied suffix, "as far as humans on this planet in this age are concerned." And, most importantly, everything I said above is, IMO, outside the scope of what the bible addresses, so it's really speculation. That is, what happened before He put man on this planet.

By the way, it is argued that this is how the writers of our earliest Bible scripture viewed the earth. It would color the language they used. It's why I must constantly remind myself the bible is not a science book. That is not its function. None of it contains decipherable 24th century science.

In the vein of "science is about how and religion is about why", and understanding from where we get our book of Genesis, I'm pretty unprejudiced about how old the earth is, how Adam and Eve actually came about, the creation of the "heavens and earth", and tend to trust actual scientific discovery. After all, we're looking at pretty old translations from very old translations of mostly, if not literally, dead language. I personally interpret the phrase "the earth" as "the surface of the earth". Or even "the age of man". And I find it interesting that scientific discovery has convinced most of us that we are on a sphere orbiting the sun, which is travelling at a high rate of speed through a galaxy of quite a few other disparate "suns", yet many of us try to literally interpret the translated words of these ancient texts and therefore refuse to accept equally compelling evidence that the earth is a heck of a lot older than 6,000 years. But I'm not saying it is or isn't 6,000 years old. I'm saying the bible leaves room for both opinions and neither prevents me from living under the Grace of God and the salvation and atonement brought through Jesus death and resurrection. One might as well get wrapped around the axle about this age old question: Which is better - Ford or Chevy. So, the bottom line, at least for me, is that I am fascinated by science and it's fun to discover how creation works. But WHY we are here is the higher pursuit. And in that one word is the entire message of Christ and the history of mankind as presented in the library of books and letters spanning many centuries, languages and many diverse authors that we call "the Bible". It's a great teaching tool. But regarding the secondary* issues, it leaves room for all sorts of interpretation, even among experts in the ancient and not-so-ancient languages from which it comes. So by all means, study it, but as one scholar told me, the more a person knows and understands about the bible's message on secondary subjects, the less confident they are in their opinion on such subjects. It could be racked up as a Dunning Kruger thing. *secondary issues, from here: Primary and Secondary Issues The primary purpose of scripture is to make clear the way of salvation, therefore I believe primary beliefs are those vital to the doctrine of salvation – they are gospel issues. Gospel issues include: credal beliefs (covering the nature of God, the person and work of Christ etc.); the normative divine inspiration of Scripture without which we would not know of salvation; the explicit moral law taught in Scripture (Jesus upheld the ten commandments and their implications. The Pauline epistles and others specify sins which will, if persisted in, prevent a person entering the kingdom). I would also include clear issues of justice. I define a secondary issue as one on which numerous Christians, with an equally high view of Scripture, interpret the Bible differently, giving full weight to the traditional interpretation and using sound hermeneutical (interpretative) principles. I believe it is sinful to divide the church, or divide from the church, over secondary issues. We need to be objective about secondary issues. Any of us can subjectively elevate our favourite secondary issue into a primary issue or a shibboleth by which we judge other people’s orthodoxy. But, as we have seen, the purpose of scripture is salvation and primary beliefs are those vital to the doctrine of salvation – they are gospel issues. I am not saying these secondary issues are unimportant, but I am saying that because they are not gospel issues they are not primary.

I just happened on this thread when I logged in today. As I read through a lot of posts, this came to mind: Titus 3:9 But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and strife and disputes about the Law, for they are unprofitable and worthless. 1 Timothy 6:4 he is conceited and understands nothing; but he has a morbid interest in controversial questions and disputes about words, out of which arise envy, strife, abusive language, evil suspicions, 1 Timothy 3:3 not addicted to wine or pugnacious, but gentle, peaceable, free from the love of money. 2 Timothy 2:14 Remind them of these things, and solemnly charge them in the presence of God not to wrangle about words, which is useless and leads to the ruin of the hearers. 2 Timothy 2:24 The Lord’s bond-servant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, able to teach, patient when wronged, Romans 16:17 Now I urge you, brethren, keep your eye on those who cause dissensions and hindrances contrary to the teaching which you learned, and turn away from them. Romans 13:13 Let us behave properly as in the day, not in carousing and drunkenness, not in sexual promiscuity and sensuality, not in strife and jealousy. Proverbs 20:3 Keeping away from strife is an honor for a man, But any fool will quarrel. Source: https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/Avoid-Quarrels

blatant incompetence I'm living in "Atlas Shrugged".

My signature. The stuff that appears below all my posts. (look below)

Yes. It's all covered in detail in the link in my sig.

Regarding the bolded: Jesus did not talk about two destinations. He talked about whether you are alive or dead. It's very clear in John 3:16 among other places. That's why it says do not fear him that can kill the body, but Him that can kill the body AND soul in Gehenna. Gehenna is used as an analogy. The listeners of the day know exactly what Jesus was talking about. We've kind of distorted it over the centuries. Eternity is not about geography. It's about condition. The personality of God is pretty clear in the OT. He eliminates His enemies. Any torture they receive is strictly in this life. That's why I really DO believe a lot of people suffer "hell on earth", but they will know peace after this body ends. Well, actually they won't know anything at all after the resurrection and they are "ended" for good.

I tried once, and she was NOT happy. There was a lot of blood, too.

Actual study is what prevented me from gouging my eye out. Whew! Close one!

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I'm bowing out of this one. I used to argue this ad nausium in the early 2000's. I finally realized I was guilty of this: I was on threads that were thousands of posts long. Not any more.

Yes, the data It all depends on your source: This is also interesting. from here:https://www.drroyspencer.com/2018/09/u-s-major-landfalling-hurricanes-down-50-since-the-1930s/

One of the comedic things about the global warming alarmists was when, A good while back, they warned that storms were gonna get worse - yet the exact opposite happened. Eventually we got into a "more stormy" period, and eventually we'll get back to a less stormy period. The whole thing is cyclical. That is all we're seeing It's all we've ever seen. We didn't cause the little ice age, etc. And we're not causing the current cycles. Enjoy the nice weather, prepare for the storms, and continue to live your life, knowing that if you live to be 100 you will see your local climate go through some minor changes. We're coming out of a very long ice age as I type this. I just keep thinking of the phrase, "correlation does not equal causation." And there really has not been that much correlation anyway. This site is very helpful: https://realclimatescience.com He's been pointed by AGW alarmists to the point that he has to put an "are you human" question up before you enter the site. Apparently he's over the target.

A warmer planet will cause the oceans to evaporate. It's pretty simple. Sure, there are subtle complications, but ultimately, when you increase the temperature where there is a body of water, the water will evaporate more. Oh, and that can cause cloud cover, which will also have a cooling effect. It's a pretty well designed system.