Scott Free

The Washington establishment is preparing for the escalation of the war on Russia's southern border in Central Asia. Concerned they will push it too far and put Eurasia into an existential crisis, causing the nations of the world to justify the collapse of the U.S.. The global population at large already sees the U.S. as the aggressor.

I am enjoying our discourse. Will be happy to respond to a specific question. If I have to lay down in detail the history of Christian natural theology first, why should I want to go down an arduous trial where I have to debate in circles every step of the way my friend?

Do not wish to reiterate the points. It would get very tedious combing through the minutia of a history lesson. I am not seeking validation, only correction to sublimate my opinions. I am not trying to build you up. I want to be torn down to see what remains.

The point is, throughout history Christians that took the Old Testament literal to define nature have been very incorrect. Could we be making those same mistakes?

Seems like it means, do they want to commute in a Lamborghini or tricycle. Riding a Big Wheel wont get them into the country club. Imagine puffing away along the curb as beautiful cars swoosh by. "If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved--even though only as one escaping through the flames." 1 Corinthians 3:15

It is too tiresome to review these problems that have faced Christianity for centuries. Either they are known or not. Going over it and arguing every step of the way would be as fun as pulling teeth.

Putting forth the effort to list and explain references that are not requested is a waist of time. They will not be read and would not change opinions in this case. I am just seeking airtight counterpoints that expose my error or refine my views. Thank you.

The Old Testament definitely needs to be taken with a grain of salt. The New Testament is definitive authoritative scripture that is never compromised. The Gospel is the rock of my harbor. The Old Testament is a passing buoy pointing the way.

So, you are saying my interpretations are to blame and the literal texts is oversimplify a deeper more profound meaning that is alluding me? Here are some scriptures, but further analysis is not appropriate for this thread. "Praise Him, highest heavens, And the waters that are above the heavens!" - Psalm 148:4 "And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters." Genesis 1:6 "In the six hundredth year of the life of Noah in the second month, in the seventeenth day of the month, all the fountains of the great deep were broken up, and the flood gates of heaven were open:" Genesis 7:11 “The pillars of the earth are the Lord’s, and on them He has set the world” - 1 Samuel 2:8 "When the earth and all its people quake, it is I who hold its pillars firm" Psalms 75:3 "He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in." Isaiah 40:22 “Can you pull in Leviathan with a fishhook or tie down its tongue with a rope?"Job 41:1 "There the ships go to and fro, and Leviathan, which you formed to frolic there." Psalm 104:26

Well, the literal translation also includes Earth is a flat table held up by columns or a suspended Earth under a dome of water. How about the giant leviathan that resides in the sea? Must we teach these things as well? If not, why?

Yeah, this thread is a way for me to formulate a response to non-believers who are told to accept the creation stories as literal as condition of faith for salvation. This is a safe place to get positive feed back. Still a work in progress.

Well, we can take away from the Bible that the Earth is a flat table held up by columns or suspended under a dome of water. How about the giant leviathan that resides in the sea? Do you teach these things as well? If not, why?

I see your point. For simplicity it can be said electronics appeared spontaneously from our imagination. The reality is all the materials and possesses where already present on the earth. It took intelligence to mold it onto a form useful to our will.

Yeah, after the transfiguration of the resurrection all of us now will look like a bunch of Neanderthals sharpening rocks and sticks. Even the Bible will be relieved as primitive and elementary. No one has cause to boast.

Yes, but understand, that information is only relevant to Christians. It is pointless to approach a non-believer with this angle. The Bible is to them as the Koran is to you. No argument will convince. People only listen to what they consider authoritative. The Gospel must reach them first.

Mankind is always so proud of their current understanding. For example, our electronics is a very primitive use of electromagnetism. If we understood it's true nature we would be very dangerous. It is good they have only toys to play with.

That may be true, but I do not see you abandoning the benefits. Evolution research has brought gene therapy for cancer. To them Christians seem to only bring judgment and condemnation to the table. Thou, sciences does seem to be evil in nature, their true intent appears to be equality with godhood.

Yes, I agree. The point is science asserts outcomes more than the cause. What is important to them is having a predictive model. It is like we are saying, electronics is a lie because they do not understand what magnetism is or where it comes from.

I feel ya. Jesus seemed to constantly expose the disciples dogmatic views. "And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did? But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of." Luke 9:54-55

I am sorry, the Bible doesn't have books on paleography and social anthropology. Guess I am wrong after all. Silly me for asserting unverifiable information. That is not the first time I did something that cringey.

Yes, I agree. In science it is understood that an idea doesn't need to be true, it just needs to achieve an objective. Like helping in the practice of DNA modification. God as the source of creation is useless information outside of Faith. I do not think they are showing malice, we are simply off their radar.

I think the biblical approach is disassociation. If a campaign is launched to oppose it they end up drawing attention to the other side, attracting more like minded people together. Rock bands in the 80's would capitalize on this by being outrageous to roweled up the opposition groups for boosting sales.

The problem is, the issue strays from affirming God to defending ones own interpretations and knowledge. This enters the realm of the ego displaying, needing to be right at all times, even by force. Far from the qualities demonstrated by Jesus and the Apostles. Therefor, this approach is unlikely furthering the Kingdom of God.

First, we should promote the Gospel and show His Spirit through charity, kindness and understanding toward those who hate us. These other issues are optional being their personal business. It is best to simply make points than to narssisistically demand allegiance to things we don't fully understand.

The unsaved will also see past our outdated erudition's. The majority of Christians do not take the creation stories seriously. To put it up as a barrier demanding allegiance to a different ideology from the Gospel before entering halls of faith in Jesus seem pretty egregious.