luigi

I totally agree with you there dad2. The events and 2nd gathering in Isaiah 11 are during the end of this current world order.

The time, times, and half a time (1,260 days) in Revelation 12:6 & 14, are the same (1) time, (2) times, and (1/2) half time, totaling 3.5 times event found in Daniel 7:25 and 12:7, which are about all the saints (both full blooded Jews and non full blooded Jews) during these end times. Revelation 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days. Revelation 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent. Daniel 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time. Daniel 12:7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

You are 100% correct about those in the land of Israel mourning when they realize who the Lord their ancestors crucified is, which occurs when the Middle East is being desolated by the Abomination of desolation. But please context! We were discussing Isaiah 11 and 12, which includes the whole body of Christ (all who believe in Christs Way, both full blood and non full blood Jews), and you went to Zechariah 12:10, without posting the reference, as if this were what I what I was making reference to. Zechariah 12:10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

It's a remnant from spiritual Israel, which includes a remnant of full blooded Jews, who are among spiritual Israel, whom God will gather from the four corners of the world, and four winds of heaven.

Isaiah 11:11 tells of a second time God will gather His people. Isaiah 11:16, informs us that the first gathering was from Egypt, not Babylon. Keep in mind, Isaiah's time was prior to Israel's expulsion to Babylon, and so Isaiah 11:11 would not be referring to a 2nd gathering, if the return from Babylon represented the first gathering. Isaiah 11:11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea. Isaiah 11:16 And there shall be an highway for the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria; like as it was to Israel in the day that he came up out of the land of Egypt.

What I am seeing on some YouTube videos, is that many nations economies are on the brink of collapse (Argentina and China, among others). While the U.S. is currently not in this predicament;--when a number of these other nations economies collapse, exports from the U.S. to these collapsed economies will then also collapse, thereby putting the US economy on a much worse footing. As such, I then believe that todays current economic woes are a precursor to tomorrows new world order of the beast.

Hi again Rdj, While you believe Isaiah 12 is solely about full blood Jews; I on the other hand believe these to be composed of all who believe in the Way of Christ (the remnant survivors, including full blood Jews), whom the Lord shall have gathered from the four corners of the earth, and four winds of heaven, to place them in the desolated lands of Israel and other desolated Middle Eastern nations, following the Abomination of desolations carnage.

I suspect you are aware that during the first gathering of Israel from Egypt, that included among the Exodus were many others who were not physically born Jews, who were assimilated into the new nation to be. As such, how do you explain these non born of Jacob, Israelites, (including Moses' wife), being of Abraham?

Good morning Rdj, I don't know if all of the faith in Christ who believe in love, truth, and justice, get killed during the beasts 42 month reign, but it certainly is the vast majority, with only a remnant indicated coming away with their skins following the beasts 42 month reign. These remnant believing survivors (including a remnant of full blood Jews), are whom the beast, the false prophet and Satan will come to make war against in Armageddon (Revelation 16). This event occurs after the Lord has gathered these remnant believers from the four corners/winds of the earth, bringing them to the Middle East which will earlier have been desolated by the Abomination of Desolation. Revelation 14 (in retrospect to following chapters of Revelation), indicates the first harvest of the earth being they who believe in love, truth, and justice. I believe these faithful first harvest are those killed in Armageddon. The second harvest is of the nonbelieving, who are unloving, lying, and unjust, who are they in Revelation 16, who experience all of Gods wrath. Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Remnant survivors is from all believers during the great tribulation, which will take many lives (Revelation 6:9-11). Revelation 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? 11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

The first gathering was from Egypt (Isaiah 11:16). The second gathering is forthcoming. And this gathering consists of all circumcised in heart believers, that will include a remnant of full blood Jews. Isaiah 11:16 And there shall be an highway for the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria; like as it was to Israel in the day that he came up out of the land of Egypt.

In the end times, the Lords wrath will fall upon those who have persecuted the circumcised in heart Israel during the 3.5 times (1,260 days) tribulation period. This Israel are the gathered believers from the four corners of the earth, which will include a remnant of full blood Jews.

Your perspective negates Isaiah 65, which states the Lord will slay those to whom He has been stretching out His arms to all day long to observe Him, but who continuously ignore Him.

In Isaiah 65:17, the Lord states that He creates new heavens and a new earth, where the former world under Satan is no longer remembered, nor come into mind. So yes, Isaiah 65 is about the end times. Isaiah 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

The Jews who turn from doing wrong, and become circumcised in their hearts into believing in doing right, the Lord shall forgive. This is the same for every individual. The Lord does not discriminate, and is not a respecter of persons (Romans 2:11). Inversely then, the Jews who do not turn from doing wrong, and remain uncircumcised in their hearts into believing in doing right, the Lord shall not forgive. Just like the Lord will do so for every other individual who is not circumcised in heart. Would the Lord not be preferential to the Jews, and a respecter of their hereditary, if He did otherwise? Romans 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

You are correct, Paul does include believers calling them Gentiles. But then again, Paul also calls believers as true Jews who are circumcised in heart, while Paul also calls physically circumcised Jews who are not circumcised in heart, as not real Jews (Romans 2:28-29). Romans 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Hello AdHoc, From what I read in your statement, it appears you believe "all Jews in the land of Israel", will at the end of the age be forgiven for their sins. If so, your perspective contradicts faith, and is based on flesh inheritance. Your perspective also contradicts what the Lord clearly states in Isaiah 65, where those who are called Jews to whom the Lord stretches out His arms all day for them to recognize Him, but do not (Isaiah 65:1-2);--will upon the Lords return be slain (Isaiah 65:15). Not saved as you claim. Isaiah 65:1 I am sought of them that asked not for me; I am found of them that sought me not: I said, Behold me, behold me, unto a nation that was not called by my name (a Christian nation). 2 I have spread out my hands all the day unto a rebellious people, which walketh in a way that was not good, after their own thoughts; 3 Isaish 65:15 And ye shall leave your name for a curse unto my chosen: for the Lord God shall slay thee, and call his servants by another name:

Another thing I will point out;-- although it is really rather kindergarten. Around the time of Isaiah, circa the 8th century BC, 10 of the 12 tribes of Israel who had sinned were expelled from the land of Israel. What do you think happened to these individuals? Answer: They were assimilated into the nations. With the exception of some indigenous peoples of the world; everyone today has some of these 10 tribes in them. But this is beyond the point, and is the kindergarten part, that everyone here should already be aware of. I would rather be an Eskimo, or any other indigenous person, who hasn't one drop of any of the 12 tribes of Israel blood; but am in my heart circumcised with Christs Way, than being a 100% full blood Jew, who is not circumcised in heart with Christs Way, whom when the Lord returns, He will slay; while His servant indigenous peoples without one drop of Jewish blood, will be rewarded (Isaiah 65:15; Revelation 11:18). Isaish 65:15 And ye shall leave your name for a curse unto my chosen: for the Lord God shall slay thee, and call his servants by another name: Revelation 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

An original definition for a Jew was for an individual who resided in Judea, and thus were known as Judeans. Likewise, Gentiles, does not mean anyone who is not a Jew, but instead is in regards to unbelievers. True believers are not Gentiles. You are nevertheless partially correct;-- believers when gathered from the four winds will be called by another name, other than Jew (Isaiah 65:15). Isaish 65:15 And ye shall leave your name for a curse unto my chosen: for the Lord God shall slay thee, and call his servants by another name:

As a true Jew according to Paul is one who is inwardly so in their heart, and not due to heredity (Romans 2:28-29);--the formation of the land of Israel in 1948 that many individuals claim to be the gathering of the Lords people would then be inaccurate. The gathering of the Lords people from the four winds would then consist of people throughout the world who are inwardly spiritually circumcised in heart who believe in love for their fellow man. Among these individuals will also be full blooded Jews who are inwardly spiritually circumcised in heart, who believe in love for their fellow man, who will be gathered from the four winds of the earth. This gathering of the faithful throughout the world happens following the great tribulation, when most who believe thusly, will have been killed during the beasts reign. Romans 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Hi Tim, I agree with your point that the world having eaten from the wrong tree is Satan's current world systems where people do wrong (sin) to each other.

In my opinion, one reason why there is so much of the end times throughout the bible, is that if this data were to have emerged within the last century or two, it would have been derided and disregarded as if from some lunatic individuals. So these prophesies coming to us from about 2000 to 3000 years ago from multiple authors, eliminates collusion, and also provides greater credibility.

Why does the Lord use people thousands of years ago to provide information of the end times, when in many cases it wasn't relevant to the times it was provided? Example: When Daniel asks of the angel as to the meaning of the visions shown him in Daniel 11 and 12, the angel tells Daniel to go on his way, as the information was sealed until the time of the end when it would then be unsealed (Daniel 12:8-9), and those inquiring of these data throughout the world would then increase in knowledge about what they mean (Daniel 12:4). And this is just one example. In the book of Isaiah, the vast majority of data appears to be about the end times. Daniel 12:8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things? 9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. Daniel 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

I see Joel 3:6, where the people of Judah and the people of Jerusalem are exiled, to correlate with the Olivet discourse in Luke 21:24, where after Israel's desolation, the remnant survivors are carried off to the worlds nations. This time also correlates with when the two witnesses will be prophesying in Jerusalem following its desolation, when the gentiles and the beast are allowed forty two months to tread Jerusalem underfoot (Revelation 11:2). Luke 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. Revelation 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

Good day Revelation Man, When Daniel inquires of the angel as to the meaning of the visions he is shown in Daniel chapters 10 and 11, he is told to go on his way, because the data is sealed for those days, as they are about the end times (Daniel 12:8-9), and at which time in the future, many of us inquiring of these visions meanings, will then increase in knowledge about what they mean (Daniel 12:4). Daniel 12:8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things? 9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. Daniel 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.