unworthyservant

I didn't mean to suggest that turning over a new leaf was a way to be saved. That was nothing more than another way of describing repentance as a turning away from. As I stated, I prefer the broader translation, complete change of heart.

I'm not joking either. I'm simply pointing out all the other things that the exact same Hebrew word was used to describe. So, for instance, along with homosexuality, lying and stealing were also described as an "abomination". So, it's not to minimize the sin of homosexuality but to point out that there are many more sins that were also an "abomination", lest we lose sight of that fact while concentrating on only one or two of those sins. For the record, there are several other words that were translated as "abomination", but the examples that I gave are all the same word you quote from Leviticus.

Yeah, $1000.00 would pay for my gas for a year and then I'd have the other 11 months worth to do something good for some folks who have only the $1000.00 to live on.

Again, the Lord labeled nothing "abomination". That's an English translation that is used for several Hebrew words of which just one of those words "toeba" can be found in the following iterations, 1. Idolatry; Deuteronomy 7:35, 13:14 Isiah 44:19. 2. All types of illicit sex; Ezekiel 16:22, 16:58, 22:11, 33:26 3. Homosexuality; several places in Leviticus as you note. 4. Temple prostitution; 1Kings 14:24 5. Deuteronomy 23:18; "You shall not bring the hire of a harlot or the wages of a dog into the house of the Lord your God for any votive offering, for both of these are an abomination to the Lord your God". This one, while it is believed that the wages of a dog refer to money made as a male prostitute, doesn't differentiate between a male and female prostitute and could also more broadly be seen to imply that any ill gotten, sinful gain is not pleasing to God and thus giving of it would be an abomination. 6. Cheating; specifically by using rigged weights; Deuteronomy 25:13-19, Proverbs 11:1 7. Lying or dishonesty; Proverbs 12:22 8. Stealing, murder and idolatry; Jeremiah 7:9,10 9. Robbery, sleeping with the neighbor's wife, oppressing the poor and needy, violence, idolatry, usury; Ezekiel 18:10-13 These are just a sampling of the use of a single word that became "abomination" in our English Bibles. There are many more examples but all I'm saying is that when we point to only those few examples that we wish to condemn then we run the risk of thinking that somehow those are worse than every other "abomination". So, I'm just providing the other examples of "abomination" or "vileness" just in case those other examples might be closer to someone's situation than just the couple that folks seem so adamant about pointing out.

I've already posted on translation and meaning issues in another post so won't go into detail here other than to say that anyway you slice it "repentance" can generally be seen as turning over a new leaf. That said, it seems that it requires two distinct acts. One of turning away from the old and one of turning to the new. In this case from sin to light.

And all I'm saying is that there are a lot more "abominations" a lot closer to home so I'm pointing them out as well, not to take away from those you mention but to simply add to them those that might be a little more personal for a lot of us(the numbers do support the fact that we're much more likely to run into them on a daily basis as we are homosexuals). As far as exaltation goes, it's ironic that one of the several words that's translated in the English Bibles as "abomination" actually has to do with the exaltation or acceptance by other groups of certain acts which were considered sins under God's law for the Israelites. Believe me, I understand the need to call out sin and the repercussions associated with it. And as for what names I might be called for calling out sin, it's pretty mild compared to those that Christ was called as He was being put to death for MY sins (as well as those of the homosexuals and everyone else). You also mention that "it" even happens in the church. I take it that "it" is condemnation for calling homosexuality a sin and if so then those churches where that might happen have strayed far from the teachings of Christ anyway, so I don't worry about their condemnation as much as I do about their souls.

It doesn't say and I'm not speculating other than to say it's probably your sinful ways.

I didn't attempt to translate anything. I simply gave the references where the word was used so as to add context to the post about where it isn't. As for literal translation, in the English New Testament translations, "metanoia" a transliteration of a Greek word is what became "repent" in our Bibles. I've heard folks say the word "repent" means to "turn away from" and while that might have been the intent of the English writers most scholars believe that the Greek word meant more specifically to change ones heart or ones motivation for doing the things they do. So, I guess that "turning to God" would indeed be a change of heart.

When I think of vileness I think of SIN! Vileness is just one of many English words used to describe many Hebrew and Greek words for SIN. There are too many translations to go into here but in God's eyes SIN is SIN, no matter what we call it. I'm perplexed by the current trend of singling out Homosexuality and Abortion whenever a descriptive word like vile or abomination appears. It's just a little too convenient to call out those vile sins of Heathen Witch Doctors but you don't hear nearly as much condemnation of some of the sins that hit a little closer to our own lives. Depending on whose numbers you use (some use only those who actually identify while others estimate those who haven't) there are approximately between 5 million and 9 million Americans who are gay or bisexual and there are less than 1 million abortions per year according to the latest numbers. That doesn't in any way diminish the severity of those SINS on an individual basis but it also doesn't put a dent in the 80 million who are living in SINful 2nd or 3rd or 4th marriages. It should also be noted that when approximately 40% of births these days are to single mothers, there's also a pretty big heterosexual fornication problem as well. With those numbers as a guide, it seems that we are at least 8 times more likely to encounter these sins as we are to encounter a homosexual or someone who is undergoing an abortion. So, just for the record, I think all these things could be considered "VILENESS" along with a host of other stuff but I don't think it wise to debate which sins are vileness and categorize those as any worse than any other sin. It's one thing to point out the sins of those with whom we have little contact but I think we should always address those sins which are closest to our selves because they are usually the ones which we might actually have more ability to influence.

You mention where repent is NOT mentioned so here's a few instances where it IS mentioned by Christ as well as John the Baptist and Peter, just to put things into proper perspective. A statement pointing out where a word does not appear could leave one with the impression that there is something behind it's absence and that would be pure speculation without context. I'm not sure the logic behind drawing conclusions from references where a certain word is absent since it's absence could be attributed to various circumstances, so only when a word IS used can you have any context from which to draw conclusions. Luke 13:3 I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish. Acts 2:38 “Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”. Mark 1:14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, 15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel. Matthew 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. Matthew 3:1 In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea, 2And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

I found this album version of the story and it has much better audio so since I don't know how to replace the other one I'm putting this up for anyone who couldn't understand some parts of the live one.

BTW, I apologize for the sound quality on these but it's the best I can find.

Actually thought about posing this in Music section but thought better of that so here it is.

The teachings of Christ said it all! and I'm just trying to bring as much as I can to the light of those teachings while I'm on this earth. I imagine we'll all be amazed at what comes to light in that day when God reveals all.

I have my own solution to that conundrum. It's simple, I don't give cash money to anyone when I don't know how they will spend it so I'll simply either ask them what they need the money for and offer to buy that thing (if it's reasonable) or offer to buy them a burger or something. While Christ didn't actually teach that we should worry about how someone got into a condition of need it is true that some out there are taking advantage of the goodness of people when they are not of necessity poor so we must be sure that our gifts are not being used to perpetrate the same behaviors that got them in their condition in the first place. And on the point of folks like Mr. Copeland making millions for themselves and building earthly treasures for themselves the Bible tells us that to whom more is given more is expected, so they'll have to answer to the same God as you and I and then we'll see what God meant by more is expected. Until then, I'm going with the theory "If I'm wrong, so what, but if they're wrong, then what?"

It was a bit of both. Ironically, while I rarely discuss politics because these days either way I would lean would alienate about half the country and thus possibly affect any attempt to witness to them because of it, when rereading your post, it got me to thinking about going to the politics section and discussing the one exception to that rule as my views are so radical on it that it's pretty well nondenominational (I mean non partisan, Freudian slip). But I think my better Angels may be leading me to leave it alone for now.

Hi, Gandalf, I just went through here and reread your text and my reply and I want to apologize to you. I jumped on you wrongly for getting political but when I reread your entire text, I realized that wasn't your intention. All I can say is I guess I just focused on the end and given my strong views on the matter took it out on you when you didn't deserve it. There's no excuse for such shortsightedness on my part. All I'll say is that "While Honesty is Always the best policy, sometimes insanity is a better defense" so I'll go with that. Sorry and God Bless.

I miss the Gospel Singing Caravan

Hallelujah! I refrained from actual naming anyone by name only to address a general issue but kudos to you. I could add a long list of names to that but I think you state the point very well and God bless you for your Spiritually sound admonition.

I too, checked into a few places before I came across this one recently, even got run out on a rail from one (it's OK, Christ warned that might happen) and on here I've found that while I still ruffle some feathers on occasion for the most part there's more meaningful discourse as opposed to craziness here than in the other places I saw. (I will admit my sample size is minute so my experience can only reflect that)

I would suggest one simple thing, pray! God will give the answer that I can't because I don't know your situation.

Why do you feel the need to take such a wonderful sentiment such as the one put forth in the original post and make it into something political much less question who really does and doesn't deserve our help? Christ didn't tell us to grumble about where the Government spends our money nor can I find where he told us to choose which of the poor are really worthy of the help He taught us to give so freely. So, while I believe that in a Democracy, we have the right to vote for our leaders and should do so based on how we feel they stand on the things that Christ taught, I just think it ruins the sound Scriptural based sentiment that was the beginning of this discussion when you turn it political. My friend, NO politician has the answers, only God! So, since the original intent of this post wasn't in any way political, I would only suggest that the political angles have a place for discussion but this just doesn't seem to me to be it.

And this is why I begged everyone not to make it political, please. I don't care who anyone thought was a better candidate and I'm not even comparing anyone to anyone, it's just about his religious upbringing and nothing else.