lftc

Hi BeauJangles! BTW, I like your screen name. I guess I wasn't clear enough in my original post. The incomplete list of resources I gave was for during the time of Christ. I was not asking about those resources. I was giving that as an example one might quote if one lived at that time. I was interested in what process you use to decide about scriptural issues that are tricky or complex or unclear. Reading through the posts that are prior to this one shows great responses from people. I've read your posts on other topics and am interested in your thought process here. Thanks Brother, and sorry I was not clear. lftc

Greetings to all! This question is intended to spark discussion of what I consider to be an important subject. Naturally, I have an opnion on the subject, but that does not mean I want to pose a question so that I can answer it (although there really is nothing wrong with that). I want to see how other people process this subject. The question: Who gets the final say on issues of understanding scriptures? Said a longer way, As a person seeks to understand scriptures, and comes to a difficulty, to whom should they turn and what level of confidence should they place in that source? For example, In Jesus time we have: the various sect groups - the Pharisees, the Sadducees, the Essenes, etc the positional authorities - the High Priest, the Sanhedrin, the Scribes, the Lawyers, etc the rest of the people the spiritual realm That is just an example to frame the question. I am interested to know how you think about this question when you come across a difficulty in the scriptures. Do you refer to other authorities and how do you decide who to quote? Please do not take this topic off topic by debating doctrinal points that may be brought up to illustrate an answer to the question. Again the question: Who gets the final say on issues of understanding scriptures? Do you refer to other authorities and how do you decide who to quote? lftc

Keep following Jesus, gdemoss. You are a blessing, I am sure. I can sense the Love you have. And that is what Jesus commanded in John 15 "you are my disciples if you keep my commands ... my command is this: Love One Another.

Like the rest of the sermon on the mount, including: Whoever teaches against the law is the least in the kingdom of heaven (remember that the law is far more than the first 10 commandments) Unless your righteousness exceeds that of the Pharisees you will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven If your right hand offends you cut it off - Then contrast that with other words from Jesus: Come to me all you who are weary and heavy laden and I will give you rest. My yoke is easy and my burden is light. All manner of sin will be forgiven men except blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. (remember that blasphemy is a synonym for slander) [his story of the Pharisee and the tax collector]

Unworthyservant, Your story brings some self-answering questions: Is the meaning of life found in caring for each other? Does the presence of money indicate divine blessing? Does a short synopsis of anyone's life show depth by itself? Does life mean anything without heaven waiting? Thanks for posting the story.

Good Question Nickm727 I like it because it opens the door to understanding a little bit. I like several of the reponses. My response : We humans are created beings. The most learned of us cannot even hold in his/her mind all the knowledge they have gained. And all the knowledge we have gained is by definition contained inside of human existence. We can imagine things outside of human existence, but on examination, our imaginations are quite human. Science Fiction books and movies portray human ideas set in outlandish environments. The protagonist is still a person that has a single thought sequence and some very human emotions for us readers to relate with. Some may attempt to get further away (remember the Borg?), but still the result is remarkably human. God, to be God, is NOT human. The existence of God, by necesity, encompasses human existence. Accepting this as fact, leads us to realize that any attempt we make to conceptualize God is inherently limited. So we have difficulty. I believe that the Bible is from God. I see that He describes his attributes in ways that are difficult for us to understand, so then He provides a lot of examples to help with those definitions. I am talking about things like Love, Mercy, Faith, Hope. But He does not even attempt to explain several things about his existence: - We see by inference that He can hear us all at the same time. Currently 7 billionish people, most of whom speak or yell at Him multiple times a day. Each expecting that God is giving them full attention. I believe He is. - We see by inference that there is something beyond us in his essence: He refers to himself as Father, Son and Spirit, sometimes in passages including conversation between those. But He emphatically says there is One God. I believe it. Both parts. - We see by inference that He had no beginning, which is the subject of this question in the forum. Fine with me. Having realized that there is a Being that is outside Human existence, I realize that I can't analyze ANYTHING in that greater existence without Revelation. And I have learned enough to know that revelation that comes from God is trustworth, but there are other beings in that existence that are definitely NOT trustworthy, so I better be careful. A similar question that has been popular in years past: "If God can do anything, can He make a rock so big He can't pick it up?" Which is another excellent starting point, as it leads again to the fundamental issue that our human existence is not the sum of all existence. So to answer the person who asks who made God, the first response is why don't you ask him yourself? It is an excellent journey. lftc

very true. We walk with the Living God. I hope you hear directly from Him today. (me too, please)

friend unworthyservant: nice screen name Your proposition here is difficult to reconcile with scripture. The Law of Moses contains more than 600 commands (depending on the counting method). Many of the commands are generally ignored by most Bible readers. The Law includes the commands that john1 refers to - no sex with close relatives. As another person observed here, that would make the Gensis creation story quite short as the children of Adam and Eve would be without mates. This leads some people to speculate that the LORD created other people for them to mate with. Which, in turn leads to difficulties to understanding the original sin doctrine (in Adam, all died). In the Garden, the LORD gives people all the plants to eat. After the flood, the LORD gives people all animals to eat. Through Moses, the LORD restricts what animals can be eaten. ANd the Apostle Paul said that the Law was added so that SIN MIGHT INCREASE. (not my words). Certainly, we can see that the LORD does expect people to know what is acceptable in the period before the Law of Moses. But we can also see that it changed. The LORD also purposefully recorded His dealings with people before and after the he gave the Law to Moses. He promises and demonstrates His Mercy over and over. My purpose in replying is to point out that careful and thorough study can lead to a more meaningful understanding. lftc

Greetings to all, Great question John1 and excellent points to make about the various sex activities that God specifically recorded for us in that story of Sodom. In response to the other post that said sister and daughter incest was OK: if you take the view that the Law of Moses applied prior to Mount Sinai, then such sex was certainly forbidden, as was male/male sex. I won't give you the chapter and verse, even though I know them. It is very important to read the whole law. But, as John1 alludes to, the Mosaic Law was given more than 400 years after this event. And the Apostle Paul has very definite things to say about the purpose of the Law. But certainly there is some way that God communicated his preferences before the Mosaic Law. I have very defined beliefs about this, but that is off this topic. Why is it off topic? Because the answer to John1's question is very important and takes a different path than the exact details of what behavior is or is not acceptable to the LORD. The LORD, my God, has been very careful to reveal what we need to know in the scriptures. So that we might have the opportunity to know Him. He had his whole plan in place before the foundations of the world. But some things we would have clearly defined He left vague. Why? Maybe so that we humans would have ample opportunity to show our human fraility as we fight about things we don't understand. Maybe so that we would have to dig deep and fall at His feet in desperation. He is so GOD and I am so not. There is much argument about the sin of Sodom - because the LORD carefully made it a research item. He did not specify that it was homosexuality. Why did He not make the root sin perfectly clear? I have my ideas, but again they are off topic. What is on topic is that we can do an exhaustive study of the subject of Sodom and Gomorrah and come to a fairly clear definition. Some highlights: - The commonly quoted Ezekiel passage is not about the Sodom of Genesis destruction. Look at the context in Ezekiel, it is completely allegory. - The Gensis story is about submitting to the God Most High, the name the Sodom story uses refer to him in the context of the King of Salem. This is consistent with the whole scriptures, especially the Gospel. It is always about WHO you believe the LORD to be. And HOW you approach Him. So the reason that Lot and Abraham were not sulpherated along with Sodom (and the other cities) is not because their sex activities were better or worse, but because they Worshipped the God Most High. But this theory then begs the question: Why doesn't God actively destroy many civilisations? That is less clear, but there are some perspectives from scripture that may bring an interesting view on this. Here is blog link that reviews this topic in complete detail: https://soon.school.blog/2019/08/07/sodom-and-gomorrah/ Thanks! Remember our high calling. LookingForTheCity