Gentle-Warrior

I can read, you don't have to shout. By the way, unlike many, I have being reading the book of Revelation for the last 2 years consistently, and I understand great part of it. Why don't you read it and find out where in this book does it say that it was written for an intergalactic future of Never-land. When you find proof, get back to me, otherwise, you have been lied to.

The Millennium is a farce that was fabricated by men who never understood the word of God. I don't read one single word from the lips of Jesus or the writers of the NT where He will return to earth to reign for 1,000 years. The opposite is true because Jesus clearly said that His kingdom is not of this realm (world) in Jn 18:36. So, how do you reconcile this contradiction and the scriptures below? 2 Chronicles 6:18 (NASB95) 18 "“But will God indeed dwell with mankind on the earth? Behold, heaven and the highest heaven cannot contain You; how much less this house which I have built." 1 Kings 8:27 (NASB95) 27 “But will God indeed dwell on the earth? Behold, heaven and the highest heaven cannot contain You, how much less this house which I have built!" John 18:36 (NASB95) 36 "Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, then My servants would be fighting so that I would not be handed over to the Jews; but as it is, My kingdom is not of this realm.”

"Jesus is also the genuine messianic King who makes David's throne eternal. (See Acts 2:30, 32, 36; 3:14, 15; 1 John 5:20.) "The key of David" represents the authority of His royal office. (See Isaiah 22:22.) He already has that authority and was and is already manifesting His royal authority and power by using the key to open doors that no one can shut and shutting doors that no one can open. (See Matthew 28:18.)" Complete Biblical Library Commentary - The Complete Biblical Library – Revelation. Jesus rules as the King of kings and as the Lord of lords. My God is eternal and does not dwell in time-space. He is the eternal King of all creation, and He is God Almighty.

Yes, all that happened, but no in the way most people believe. Jesus reigns in heaven and as always, He is God almighty. He created all things (Col. 1:16) and redeemed all things at the cross. When the word if God says that God reigns, the Son is not excluded, neither the Holy Spirit. There is only one throne in heaven, not two, and Jesus reigns in the the midst of those who oppose Him because He is Lord. Remember that God in His triune self is eternal, so I suggest you don't think of Jesus as being under the subjection of time and space. He is still God omnipotent and all present. Don’t limit the attributes of God the Son. He never ceased to be God.

Absolutely and a resounding YES. Jesus is LORD! When Jesus ascended to heaven, He sat down on the throne. Did you forget Jesus is God???? Isaiah 66:1 (NASB95) "Thus says the Lord, “Heaven is My throne and the earth is My footstool. Where then is a house you could build for Me? And where is a place that I may rest? Matthew 28:18 (NASB95) " "And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth." Mat. 11:27, Phil. 2:9, Col. 2:10, 1Pe. 3:22, Jn 3:35, Mat. 26:64 and much, much more. Meditate on some of these scriptures for a while and then respond.

To sit at the right hand of the Father means to sit on the throne. God does not have a right hand because He is a spirit. Jesus was God before He became man (Jn 1:14), He is God and God rules in heaven, unless you deny the Trinity where God, Father, Son and Spirit make up ONE GOD. Did you read Eph 1:20-23 or are you rejecting the word of God? Ephesians 1:20–23 (NASB95) "Which He brought about in Christ, when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places, 21 far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come. 22 And He put all things in subjection under His feet, and gave Him as head over all things to the church, 23 which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all." As for Ps. 110:1, it took place when Jesus ascended to the throne and sat down to rule because He destroyed the works of the devil, destroyed death with His resurrection and dealt with sin forever. So, how could all things be in subjection to Jesus and not reign at all? To be honest with you what you said doesn't make any sense.

The remnant in Romans 11 were those who believed in Christ, not those who hated Him. Learn to know the difference. In the same token, the remnant of the church are those who are true believers, not those who claim to be Christians but are not. The Lord has His remnant today which are marked by the fact they have the Spirit of Christ within them. Without the Spirit of Christ, no one belongs to the Lord (Ro. 8:9).

Yes, I agree. You should study God's word and stop listening to man's words or teachings. If it is not in the word of God, you should reject it. For me it is Jesus + Nothing.

The Lord reigns now from heaven over all creation. He is our Lord, isn't He? He has the keys of death and Hades, doesn't He? (Rev. 1:18). He is also Lord in the house of David and reigns as both Lord and God (Rev. 3:7, Acts 2:36). Acts 2:36 (NASB95) 36“Therefore let all the house of Israel know for certain that God has made Him both Lord and Christ—this Jesus whom you crucified.” I don't know what raising from the dead has to do with anything. Those who have died in Christ are in heaven or Paradise right now.

Good, I'm glad you said that. I also have zero in common with you because I don't accept or approve man made doctrines. The Millennium is nothing but the result of scriptural manipulation that the word of God denies vehemently. So, either we are for the truth or against the truth. With Jesus there is no middle term.

Marilyn, it is not that the Lord will have rulership, but that He HAS rulership. He who rules in heaven rules over all creation because all creation is subject to God's rule in heaven. He is both God and Savior. Don't we call Him by the title, Lord? He is not just Lord of the church, but Lord of all creation. You quoted Eph. 120-21, but if you read the entire passage, Paul speaks in the past tense, "brought about in Christ", "raised Him from the dead", "seated Him at His right hand in heavenly places", and then he categorically states, "far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age, but also in the age to come." Verse 22 continues on using past preterist by saying, "He (God) put all things in subjection under His feet and so on... Mat. 28:18, Acts. 1:8, back it up by stating that Jesus is Lord of all creation. God is always the present ruler, not the future ruler because He is YHWY (I AM that I AM) Exo. 3:14. Agree?

So, far nothing that you quoted speaks about a Millennial Kingdom. Care to try again? Besides that, you ignored all my points, how come? By the way, don't ever take scriptures out of context. Simple verses do not dictate or support any doctrine. Be wise.

What Millennium, the one dispensationalists invented a few hundred years ago? Nothing in the scriptures warrants such belief. Jesus never mentioned an earthly kingdom, actually, He said the opposite, "My Kingdom IS NOT OF THIS WORLD." (Jn 18:36). None of the writers of the NT ever mentioned an earthly kingdom either, and worse, Rev. 20 which is highly symbolical, says nothing about Jesus reigning on earth. So, how come most Christians believe in extra-biblical teachings?

"I love" it" when people present their case based on presuppositions that are not truly based on God's word. Here is my question to prove what I'm saying. Why do you suppose that there will be an end time (end of history) tribulation? Is it based on what God's word really teaches, or is it based on mere assumptions that cannot be proved biblically speaking? Remember one thing, if you are going to use Mat. 24 to prove your belief, you must prove that Jesus was talking about the end of history, meaning an event that had nothing to do with His disciples or what was going to take place some time in the near future. So, was Jesus talking to His disciples or was He talking over their heads, ignoring who He was addressing His points to which in my understanding, would mean plain deception?

Why do you believe that I'm calling God a liar? By the way, if you take scriptures that strictly belong to the old covenant (OT), you are actually ignoring a biblical principle that states that the NT reveals, completes and fulfills the OT through the redemption in Jesus Christ. So, if you take Ez. 47:13-14 out of a hat and simply use it to prove your point, you fail in not recognizing the cross and the gospel that went forth to announce the good news of salvation. Now, since God judged old covenant Israel in the wars of the Jews against the Romans in AD 66-70, fulfilling the Lord's prediction about Jerusalem, (Mat 23:34-39, Lk 11:49-51), in what way am I saying something that is not true?

Covenant Israel was judged in AD 70. That means that the only people that God has and will ever have are those who are in Christ. Jews who come to Christ become part of us and are also called Christians. It is my opinion that the presuppositions and imaginations of the church about the future have gone off the deep end. Most of it is plain fantasy. I believe in the Second Coming of Christ that will end this era forever in order usher eternity with a new heavens and a new earth where righteousness dwells.

Amen. What saddens me is how many Christians are in favor of secular and political Israel while never mentioning Christian Palestinians or Jewish believers that suffer persecution under their hands. The very name of "Israel" is like honey to many Christians that turn a blind eye to the abuses they commit. I support democracy, but I don't support abuse.

Unconverted Jews persecuted Jewish Christians by calling them traitors. Many believing Jews have lost their families and friends for daring to believe in Jesus. Some of them truly suffer for the sake of the Master.

John had a vision and for the remainder of the book, he saw things from a heavenly perspective. He was in the spirit. What he saw in heaven had nothing to with the far future or the end of history, unless you want to quote scripture where it CLEARLY states that he was about to see future end time events reserved for the end of history. You are manipulating the word of God that states "I will show you what must take place after these things" (Rev. 4:1), as if John meant the end of history! I don't read that at all. Besides that, what you are saying is that book of Revelation was irrelevant to the first century church and has been irrelevant ever since. You are suggesting that this book has meant nothing to anyone since John under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit penned this book which he directed it to the seven churches of Asia Minor 2,000 years ago. So, are you accusing God to give us a book that we can use strictly for future speculation ONLY since none of us will see or CAN PROVE what you imagine this book is talking about?

Where did I said that the church REPLACED Israel, please quote me on that sir? My take is that godly Jews left the sinful nation, left Judaism, and left their world mentality behind in order to become a new creation in Christ and be part of God's kingdom on earth as they received the Spirit as the downpayment of their salvation. Nothing to do with Replacement Theology. You just don't get it because you have made modern Israel your idol and would not allow anyone to touch it. YES, I DENY the physical rule and reign on earth of Jesus because Jesus is GOD and God does not reign on earth but from heaven. BIBLICAL PROOF: 1 Kings 8:27 (NASB95) 27 “But will God indeed dwell on the earth? Behold, heaven and the highest heaven cannot contain You, how much less this house which I have built!" John 18:36–37 (NASB95) 36 "Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, then My servants would be fighting so that I would not be handed over to the Jews; but as it is, My kingdom is not of this realm.” 37 Therefore Pilate said to Him, “So You are a king?” Jesus answered, “You say correctly that I am a king. For this I have been born, and for this I have come into the world, to testify to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth hears My voice.” Ephesians 1:20–23 (NASB95) "Which He brought about in Christ, when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places, 21 far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come. 22 And He put all things in subjection under His feet, and gave Him as head over all things to the church, 23 which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all." CONCLUSSION: Jesus who is God Almighty, King of all creation and Ruler over the nations CANNOT AND WILL NOT reignn on earth ever. His kingdom is in heaven!!!! I have proved through the scriptures the fallacy of a wretched kingdom on earth.

Revelation 4:1 (NASB95) 1 "After these things I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven, and the first voice which I had heard, like the sound of a trumpet speaking with me, said, “Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after these things.” If I took you to an empty warehouse and show you the plans for a new store, you would never think I was talking about a plan that will take place 2,200 years from now. This verse has nothing to do with the future, but an event that was going to take place soon. Read Rev. 1:1, 3, 3:11, 22:7, 10 and 12 in a modern scholarly translation. The kjv is 412 years old and its language is not written in clear, modern English.

Prove that the book of Revelation was written for the future with chapter and verse please.

So what is your point?

People presuppose that the book of Revelation was written in 95 AD. There is no proof to that. There is more proof that it was written before AD. 70 than in 95. I don't know why you posted Rev. 4:1. What does it prove? Your KJ says "hereafter" which in plain English means in a very short time.

You are taking Jesus's words out of context. Jesus was talking about satan coming against Him by stirring up the Jews and the Romans to do what God had predetermined to take place before time began. Acts 2:23 (NASB95) "This Man, delivered over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, you nailed to a cross by the hands of godless men and put Him to death." Jesus is Lord now.