Marathoner

I'm not following you here. Can you elaborate and share relevant scripture? Much appreciated, my friend. Too keep matters focused on the topic, the mercy of the Lord toward the wicked is not necessarily forgiveness. The Lord is specifically merciful toward man which is the context of why I don't agree with eternal, conscious punishment of men and women. The lake of fire is the second death for man.b Satan, on the other hand, will be punished eternally so the lake of fire is not the second death for our accuser.

Understood, but insofar as we in the Body are concerned, many don't. I've encountered preachers of the Law before as well.

Having participated in discussions about this topic in the past, my own understanding hasn't changed. I'm on my phone and otherwise occupied, but I can offer a concise summary of that understanding in this post. Context is critical. The Lord has extended mercy and the permission to repent only to man; nowhere in the scriptural record are the angels permitted the same mercy. Consider Cain, the slayer of his brother, and how the Lord granted his petition even after Cain had lied to Him. The Lord was merciful to Adam and his wife even after they had sinned. The Lord limited the days of man after the flood, which can be seen as yet another example of His mercy toward us. Seeing as how scripture testifies of the mercy of the Lord even toward wicked men, scriptural support of the second death being the end for wicked men exists as well. Only Satan, the beast, and the false prophet will be tormented forever and ever in the lake of fire. That sums up my understanding of the matter.

While I don't agree with dispensational premillennialism, calling it a dangerous "false teaching" is the real danger. No one who adheres to that eschatological view teaches that men or women ought to sin... obey the Law and ordinances... or deny the Son of the living God. It's a false accusation. Pay close attention to your rhetoric, Luther. Refrain from accusing others, for the beloved of the Lord already have an accuser of the brethren. Don't add to that.

Most of the time, it is...

My friend, I was an object of scorn, ridicule, and was rejected for many years. Nothing that man can do has power over me. This is what the fiery trial imparted. I encourage those who find themselves in the same place I was myself, knowing evil that inhabits the hearts of men. Men will profess the name of Christ and work evil under the sun; they will attend to displays of piety and quote scripture; anyone can do these things and not know the Lord. My heart is for the sick, the wounded, the rejected, and the desolate. I will look after their needs and love them just as the Lord loves me, and loved me when I was sick, wounded, rejected, and desolate.

Israel used them in Lebanon in 2024 and recently in Gaza. Their supplier? The United States.

I find striving with one who denies a worthless endeavor. Nothing good comes of it. Regarding my brother where misunderstanding exists, patience and care produces good fruit. If we disagree, I am pleased to permit my brother the last word if he wishes. I will not seek advantage for myself. The Lord sees fit to deal with us in different ways, and that can change over the course of trial and time. I have heard His voice (not always audibly) from the beginning, but He was silent for over 20 years. I considered His silence toward me as hatred. Surely, I had sinned and the Lord wanted nothing to do with me... I deserved it. I was mistaken, of course, but that was part of the fiery trial. A brother here on the forum revealed something from that long trial I had shared with no one else, something that he heard from the Lord. His veracity is beyond question, for only the Lord revealed that to him. He knew exactly what the Lord had said to me. I trust this brother's word and rejoice over what happened. After the trial was over and the Lord lifted me up from ruin, everything changed. He taught me how to speak again (I struggled to speak after that terrible illness which almost ended this flesh), and He was with me night and day. When I was terrified, He would soothe my soul. When all I wanted to do was quit and give up, He seized my attention and encouraged me to try again. When I lamented how I was a horrible man and that He would surely cast me out and into the fire, what did He say? I'm the work of His hand; why would He raise me up only to cast me out? The Lord promised that just as He was with me during His instruction, He would always be with me. He would never be silent toward me again. This has nothing to do with religious belief nor opinions. It's all about dwelling with the Holy One... what some might call our relationship with Christ. What the Lord did to me and for me, I will never be able to repay. I lost everything, and then He gave me more than I had before.

Israel possesses and has used "bunker busters" before.

A great example. It helps that my family disowned me decades ago, so that's one less distraction in life. Just as well, I have no family of my own and I know that it will remain that way. I don't pine for nor yearn for such a thing; I pour myself into the work that Christ places in front of me to do. With regard to hearing the Lord, that's what He deals with: the work I was created for. When I'm not working, I rest and enjoy the fruit of my labors.

There are different ways to hear the Lord's voice. It isn't remotely unscriptural in the least.

Your opinion is noted.

Church attendance is not an indicator of fruit. I understand that church attendance matters where religion is concerned, but the Body of Christ is found everywhere in the world. We are the temple of the Holy Spirit, not a structure built by men; the Lord does not dwell in structures made by man nor is He served by human hands (Acts 17:25).

This is somewhat tangential to the topic, perhaps, but it's worth sharing those times when I have heard His voice audibly, @Vine Abider. When? Visions. The Lord's voice is thunderous, coming from every possible direction, issuing from storm clouds.

I do hope you understand that we're of the same accord, but the content of the devotional you quoted is the issue at hand. I reiterate that it's not uncommon to hear the Lord; I'm aware that you have before, my brother. I didn't distinguish between audible or spiritual for that isn't important. He speaks with His own words. He's spoken to me both ways, my friend. Either way, the Lord sees fit to speak to me as it pleases Him. I don't encounter inclinations or such things; the Lord speaks to me instead. I'm accustomed to all manner of nonsense coming from those who profess the name of Christ who seek to waylay me, as if I'm required to meet their demands when most assuredly, I'm not. I couldn't possibly care less about the esteem of men and their lifeless religions. I will share what concerns me: The young in faith who are preyed upon by the same. The wolves have no power over me but the young in faith are vulnerable to their jealousies, their domineering interrogations and specifically, their defiled religion of the flesh. I say that the beloved of the Lord is not obligated to satisfy the jealous who are offended by how they follow the Spirit of the Lord, something which they don't understand. As the Lord said to Nicodemus, Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless someone is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which has been born of the flesh is flesh, and that which has been born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but you do not know where it is coming from and where it is going; so is everyone who has been born of the Spirit.” (John 3:5-8 NASB) No one here is a "wolf."

The words of the Lord answer your question: My sheep listen to My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give them eternal life, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. (John 10:27-28 NASB) I listen to the voice of the Lord Jesus Christ, and I follow Him. I know His voice, and He knows me.

This isn't a response to my brother; it's to emphasize the Vine, who is Jesus Christ, and how there are no distinctions made regarding this flesh in Him. My brother's words are a testimony of the Spirit of the Lord. What's more, we who are grafted into the Vine do not embroil ourselves in the evils of this world of man and his nations, for we belong to a Kingdom and a royal priesthood that is not of this world. We are here to show forth Christ to those who are sick and perishing --- all men and women regardless of who they are --- and alienating our neighbor by staining ourselves and taking "sides" in endless wars and power-mongering is the antithesis of who we are and what we do. Being an outsider to such matters, I look on while polarization, alienation, hatred, and division manifests among many who profess the name of Jesus Christ. We are to bless and not curse for we are called to the blessing, never returning evil for evil which is the custom of the ungodly and wicked. The apostle quotes Psalm 34:12-16: To sum up, all of you be harmonious, sympathetic, loving, compassionate, and humble; not returning evil for evil or insult for insult, but giving a blessing instead; for you were called for the very purpose that you would inherit a blessing. For, “The one who desires life, to love and see good days, Must keep his tongue from evil and his lips from speaking deceit. He must turn away from evil and do good; He must seek peace and pursue it. For the eyes of the Lord are toward the righteous, And His ears attend to their prayer, But the face of the Lord is against evildoers.” (1 Peter 3:8-12 NASB)

I'll revisit the matter differently in the hope that we will reach an understanding, @Vine Abider. I have isolated the following from the OP as a guide in the interest of harmony: The above is neither scripturally supported nor remotely true. Many of us, do, in fact, hear the Lord for He speaks to us with His voice. We know His voice, for we belong to Him (John 10:27-28). As I wrote earlier, New Covenant scripture testifies of brethren who did indeed hear the voice of the Lord. Stephen witnessed the Lord standing at the right hand of the Father (Acts 7:56). It is common for the beloved of the Lord to hear His voice, not uncommon. This is true. I understand that some do not hear the voice of the Lord. The above is not the voice of the Lord, my friend. That describes a motivating desire, and not His voice. I do not "find" the voice of the Lord through anything of the like; rather, I hear the voice of the Lord when He speaks. What's described in the quote above, and His voice, are not the same at all. When I ask the Lord for direction, He speaks and directs me. When I cry out to the Lord, He answers. He has always done so and as I wrote earlier today, I'm not special in any way. I'm no better than anyone else. I hope that helps.

@purity, I have moved this topic to a forum better suited for your request. I pray that you will find what you are looking for, my friend.

No worries, brother. We'll come to an understanding eventually.

I commented on the doctrine forwarded in your OP. When you wrote that you didn't understand my commentary, I explained it further by emphasizing the doctrine in question for your benefit. It couldn't be illustrated any clearer than that, and you claim that you still don't understand. I even went so far as to anticipate the last paragraph of your post above before you wrote it, being all too familiar with this doctrine and those who teach it. I marvel at how some insist that others meet their standard but are unwilling to extend the same toward others. I understand everything you have written. The teaching espoused in the OP has no foundation nor basis in scripture and yet, you question what I have written as if you understand it when you state that you do not? How do you know what I have written when you ignore concise, simply articulated sentences? It's out of my hands. For the benefit of the reader, the assertion that hearing the voice of the Lord is not common is unscriptural, for the New Testament is filled with examples of brethren hearing Him. There is no mention that the Lord is distant or adheres to "inclinations" or songs, whatsoever, so statements that such is how the Lord communicates with those who belong to Him instead of speaking is error. Is it one way? I will not state that it isn't, and I never did. On the contrary, hearing the voice of the Lord is rather common among those of us who belong to Him. I find the appeal to scripture ironic considering that those who teach that the Lord is distant and manipulates feelings or emotions have no scriptural foundation to stand upon. I expect nothing more than that.

It would be good to illustrate the effect of that wicked doctrine and how it teaches the young to stumble: If hearing His voice is not "normal" and the one so targeted knows what is true (they do indeed hear the Holy One) --- then the notion that they are somehow "special" becomes the cunning snare of the fowler. The Lord permits us all the capacity to choose our own way, and going astray for a time serves to instruct us about the folly of man and the wickedness of our heart. It's the hardest of lessons and can shipwreck the vulnerable. Nothing is impossible to the Lord and such a one will be brought back into the fold, but woe to those who taught them to stumble. No. We who hear His voice are not "special" in any way and the Lord, knowing that I would be the target of fiery darts cast by accusers, assured me that I am hardly alone in the present day. Many of us do indeed hear His voice and there are a number of us present on Worthy who do. I have encountered brethren here who articulated matters that they heard from the Lord Himself, and they know who they are. Does the Lord lead you by inclinations or verses of scripture? Well and good, but do not gnash your teeth upon those who hear His voice. It is not rare at all.

It's your OP, yes? I'll repeat it for you: I emphasized key elements for your sake. There is no scriptural basis for proclaiming that the Lord does not normally speak with His own voice in the New Covenant, relying instead upon inclinations and leadings of the heart. This is neither true nor trustworthy, and this doctrine is utilized by deniers to oppress the young in faith who hear the voice of the Lord, meant to discourage them and lead them into bondage of fleshly wisdom with the appearance of godliness. The hearts of men are wicked (Jeremiah 17:9) and this particular doctrine stands out. Not only does the Lord speak, but He does whatever He pleases; He is not subject to any man nor the religion of man. Herein lies comprehension: note how such a manner of being led by the Spirit is not the issue but rather, the doctrine that hearing His voice is not "normal" in the New Covenant is the matter at hand. If that is understood, then what I have written becomes crystal clear. If not, then it is out of my hands.

I've heard this many times: the Lord doesn't speak to anyone directly. Praise the Lord that I don't suffer from such a malady, that I should ignore the voice of the Lord who has spoken to me from the beginning because others don't believe. It's simple: I speak to the Lord, and He speaks to me. Is He is not capable of doing whatever He pleases? Or, is the Lord defined by the beliefs of men, that He ought to conform to their expectations? Certainly not. Hearing the voice of the Lord is not as rare or uncommon as some insist. On the contrary, many of my brethren do hear His voice... they speak to the Lord, and He speaks to them. For all of the talk about avoiding feelings and the like, that's what a relationship with the Lord is reduced to according to the quote from the OP. It's my heart to encourage those who are the subject of scorn and ridicule, just like I was myself: remember who the Lord is, and who you are. You are His beloved!

The Watchtower is bizarre, to put it mildly.