Speks

I hope your situation improves. It’s very hard sometimes to cope a day at a time. Over the decades I’ve been encouraged and strengthened by God’s Word in 2nd Corinthians 4 and 5. We read there about God’s people being afflicted, unable to find a way out, being mistreated, struck down. But through all that trouble they were not restricted or confined, and they weren’t driven to despair. God had not abandoned them and they weren’t facing destruction and total loss. Sometimes we want to escape all life’s weaknesses and struggles. I’ve felt that myself. There may be times we would rather be “at home with the Lord”. But we walk by faith and not by sight – we don’t need to be controlled by hard circumstances and persistent suffering. Whether we are at home or gone to be with Christ, it's our goal to please him.

Some of us can look back to a time when our faith seemed very small and feeble. The stress of hard circumstances threatened to crush us and each morning we struggled to see God in our lives. We almost fainted with the strain of trying to push through. Perhaps you feel that way today. You may be going through long nights when you are convinced God has stepped back and left you on your own. Through many trials faith can be severely tested. When we are weakened by relentless pressure, surrounded by setbacks and stressful situations, it can feel like we are cut off from Christ. We may even believe we are in the shadow of death itself (see Psalm 23). Sometimes we struggle through one trial only to be hit by another the following day. Some of us will feel suffocated by a darkness that was caused by sin. So we are crushed by regret. Have we allowed our spiritual enemy to get the better of us? Whatever the reasons and circumstances, it’s always possible to learn from life’s experiences and use them to grow stronger. Through the pain, whether emotional or physical, we can be led into a deeper relationship with Christ. Never give up. God’s Word pulls no punches when it comes to the agonies His people will go through. Have you ever read Psalm 88? It’s a desperate and distressed plea from someone who knows that his biggest need through life’s toughest days is the Lord Himself: __ O Lord, God of my salvation, I cry out day and night before you. Let my prayer come before you; incline your ear to my cry! For my soul is full of troubles, and my life draws near to Sheol. I am counted among those who go down to the pit; I am a man who has no strength, like one set loose among the dead, like the slain that lie in the grave, like those whom you remember no more, for they are cut off from your hand. You have put me in the depths of the pit, in the regions dark and deep. Your wrath lies heavy upon me, and you overwhelm me with all your waves. Selah [pause and reflect] You have caused my companions to shun me; you have made me a horror to them. I am shut in so that I cannot escape; my eye grows dim through sorrow. Every day I call upon you, O Lord; I spread out my hands to you. Do you work wonders for the dead? Do the departed rise up to praise you? Selah Is your steadfast love declared in the grave, or your faithfulness in Abaddon? Are your wonders known in the darkness, or your righteousness in the land of forgetfulness? But I, O Lord, cry to you; in the morning my prayer comes before you. O Lord, why do you cast my soul away? Why do you hide your face from me? Afflicted and close to death from my youth up, I suffer your terrors; I am helpless. Your wrath has swept over me; your dreadful assaults destroy me. They surround me like a flood all day long; they close in on me together. You have caused my beloved and my friend to shun me; my companions have become darkness. Psalm 88 (ESV)

Very true. You're exactly right there. And we need to careful how we respond to what we know... and in particular, what we think we know. And some, unfortunately, are much more impressionable than others. That can lead to colourful speculations, flights of fancy and pronouncements that have the ring of authority about them, but are nothing of the kind. Anyway, I'm sure you would agree that we should aim to be wise and very, very cautious...

There are those who would generally have some sympathy with your frustrations. It’s an unfortunate trait in human nature, joining up dots to create a picture of something that may not exist. Some people grow to have personality characteristics that are stubbornly attracted to controversies, conspiracy theories, the supernatural and any amount of outlandish ideas. Interpreting known facts to fit personal bias is a common inclination we should all try to avoid. But these tendencies are of particular concern when it happens among true believers. The impact can be far-reaching. We can find ourselves surrounded by fruitless distractions that result in bickering and cliquey friendships that undermine fellowship. Those who are spiritually undisciplined impose dubious personal opinions and speculations on Scripture with all kinds of chaotic results. Many speak as if their debatable pet theory is an unanswerable fact. “Why can’t you see!” If we get to the stage where we no longer trust ourselves and instead place our total confidence in Christ, we will be less likely to be outspoken and opinionated. (That's not a judgement of this thread.) If it’s our routine prayer to become subject to the mind of Christ, we will more readily know His will and gradually learn how best to conduct ourselves. Fallen human nature always tends to focus on self rather than placing Christ at the centre. If we can recognise when we are being “carnal”, we will be more likely to keep self under control. (I share all this in light of my own persistent shortcomings!) “...asking that you may be filled with the knowledge of his will in all spiritual wisdom and understanding, so as to walk in a manner worthy of the Lord, fully pleasing to him: bearing fruit in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God” (Colossians 1:9, 10, ESV).

May I ask, Chris, why this particular subject is of interest to you? Does it go back to those experiences you shared here earlier in the year? Are you exploring Biblical teaching in some way and the opinion of others is of interest?

Are any of the above quotes relevant to what you mean? "...the Hebrew expression here means what it says: Ham … saw his father's nakedness (v. 22). He was not involved with Noah sexually, for in that case the Hebrew would be translated 'he uncovered (causative form of galâh) his father's nakedness.' Instead Noah had already uncovered himself (wayyitgal, reflexive form, v. 21), and Ham saw him that way"; "In all but one of the verses in Leviticus 18:6–19, Moses used the causative form of the verb galâh to refer to the Canaanites’ (Ham’s descendants) “uncovering” another’s nakedness (rendered in the NIV, “have sexual relations”). This euphemism reports the actual licentious and repulsively immoral behavior of the descendants of Ham (cf. Lev. 18:3). Ham’s disposition toward moral abandon thus bore fruit in the immoral acts of his descendants, the Canaanite"; "Noah 'uncovered himself,' and Ham saw Noah naked. This passage does not say that Ham 'uncovered the nakedness of Noah,' which would be a euphemism for perverted sexual activity (Lv 18:6–19)." There are other sources that take another view, but maybe you can help our understanding further. I'm all for knowing Scripture better.

This reasoning doesn't quite make sense... Yes, it can be a good idea to think things through. But when we "go find it out what it means" aren't we reading the thoughts of those who may well have thought it through themselves anyway? They believe (perhaps) that they have some understanding based on careful thought and study, and extensive background knowledge in various contexts, including languages. In many cases these people are published experts in their fields. That doesn't mean we blindly buy into what they tell us, but it carries weight. Or should we depend more on someone who shares in this thread? We weigh up what we discover and draw conclusions, if we can.

Maybe this doesn't answer your question, Chris, but... The soul is the seat of our personality – the mind's thoughts, our emotions and intentions, our preferences and dislikes, and so on, that also normally govern our bodies. In that context it is dependant on the brain's biology and consciousness. When we are 'knocked out' in some way, the mind is completely unaware because the soul can't function in a physical brain that's been switched off. Salvation in Christ adds a new consciousness, when we willingly abide in Him. A human spirit that has been made alive in Christ, by faith in Him and His sacrificial work, knows both a person's thoughts and the mind of Christ through the Holy Spirit Who dwells within. Our souls will be gradually conformed into His image when we allow the Holy Spirit to work through our spirits. In this way we are properly and effectively subjected to His will. Soul-centric believers are full of themselves rather than being fully aware of the Holy Spirit's guidance within. My head hurts now!

Well, no, not at all. It ain’t what you say, it’s the way that you say it. With countless 10,000s of pastors and teachers out there, by anyone’s reckoning your heading is a fault-finding accusation impossible to quantify. As another has pointed out: “...you talk as if you know what scriptures they avoid?” If our full assurance demands a high view of Scripture, we will certainly stand apart from those who prefer a modified Gospel – one that’s ‘cerebrally’ more comfortable. (We don’t have far to look!) This dilution is similar to those mentioned in Isaiah 30 who preferred to speak “smooth things”. A spineless Gospel is a direct consequence of unbelief, scepticism, incredulity. It’s rooted in a need to conform to society’s expectations. All too often it embraces a Christianised world-view that accommodates secular ideals. Our spiritual enemy works endlessly to contaminate the Truth, often from within. We can’t stop this. It’s as old as the early Church. Local assemblies must remain faithful in preaching the fullness of Scripture, and consistently distance themselves from those who weaken its authority.

For interest's sake, as far as I can discover this seems to be a better definition than "ball": "It is He who sits above the circle of the earth..." [A] vault: only of vault of the heaven; vault, horizon; circle, circuit, compass.

Commentaries may be of interest. __ The basic question concerns what Ham, Noah's youngest son, did (9:22, 24) and why Noah cursed Ham's "son" Canaan (vv. 25–27). Many fanciful ideas have been proposed. The rabbis said Ham castrated Noah, thus explaining why Noah had no other sons. Others claim that Ham slept with his mother, thus uncovering his father's nakedness, and that Canaan was the offspring of that union. Others have said that Ham was involved in a homosexual attack on his father. But the Hebrew expression here means what it says: Ham … saw his father's nakedness (v. 22). He was not involved with Noah sexually, for in that case the Hebrew would be translated "he uncovered (causative form of galâh) his father's nakedness." Instead Noah had already uncovered himself (wayyitgal, reflexive form, v. 21), and Ham saw him that way. To the ancients, however, even seeing one’s father naked was a breach of family ethic. The sanctity of the family was destroyed and the strength of the father was made a mockery. Ham apparently stumbled on this accidentally, but went out and exultingly told his two brothers, as if he had triumphed over his father... In all but one of the verses in Leviticus 18:6–19, Moses used the causative form of the verb galâh to refer to the Canaanites’ (Ham’s descendants) “uncovering” another’s nakedness (rendered in the NIV, “have sexual relations”). This euphemism reports the actual licentious and repulsively immoral behavior of the descendants of Ham (cf. Lev. 18:3). Ham’s disposition toward moral abandon thus bore fruit in the immoral acts of his descendants, the Canaanite. The Bible Knowledge Commentary __ Modern readers fail to see the gravity of Ham's sin and ask what is wrong with gossiping or joking to your brothers about your parents' failings? So attempts have been made to suggest Ham was guilty of incest or other sexual impropriety. But these notions are wrong and fail to appreciate how seriously the OT and other ancient cultures took filial duties. ‘Honour your father and mother' comes next to the Godward commandments in Ex. 20, and striking or cursing your father or mother could be punished by death (Ex. 21:15, 17; cited by Jesus, Mk. 7:10). Why was Canaan cursed for the sin of Ham his father? There is no clear answer. Possibly he participated in his father's sin in some way. Possibly it was a mirroring punishment. As Ham, Noah's youngest son, sinned against his father, so Canaan, Ham's youngest son, was punished. Possibly, it was because Ham's sin foreshadowed that of the Canaanites, who were notorious for their immorality in the OT (Lv. 18:3). The New Bible Commentary __ Noah “uncovered himself,” and Ham saw Noah naked. This passage does not say that Ham “uncovered the nakedness of Noah,” which would be a euphemism for perverted sexual activity (Lv 18:6–19). A parent’s sin often becomes a child’s stumbling block (Ex 34:7). In this case, Ham dishonored his father and thus sinned (Ex 20:12; Dt 5:16) in two ways: First, he dishonored his father by staring at his nakedness (Hab 2:15). Second, he increased both his sin and his father’s shame by reporting his father’s condition to others. Later, the law stipulated curses for dishonoring a parent (Ex 21:17; Dt 27:16). CSB Study Bible

It's certainly a choice many people over a certain age would question. It may well get lost among other names because young adults today (and probably tomorrow!) are fond of more unconventional names. When she's older I bet she gets Maz for short.

There is a very important foundational teaching here. People become sidetracked, imbalanced and even foolish without it. In true spiritual life this mess is the opposite of being free. We are made free by Christ the Word, Who is the truth: "I am the way, and the truth, and the life". If the Son makes us free, we are free indeed. Those who are having truth revealed to them by the Holy Spirit are those who remain in Him and continue to faithfully follow His teaching (2nd John v.9). "He who is of God hears the words of God" (John 8:47).

Doesn't 4:1 make sense in context without reading other meanings into it? Just a few lines earlier we read that the women had fallen into hard times from a place of pride and showiness, and men were few and far between: "Your men will fall by the sword and your mighty men in battle."

There's a lot of truth in that.

"...calling our attention to the fact that we are off the right path..." I can relate to that. Emotional tension is normal in some contexts and needs natural release for spiritual profit. Grief, persecution, false accusation, sin, fear, and so on. It reminds me of passages scattered through the Psalms, like: "In the day of my trouble I seek the Lord; in the night my hand is stretched out without wearying; my soul refuses to be comforted. When I remember God, I moan; when I meditate, my spirit faints... Will the Lord spurn forever, and never again be favorable?" (Psalm 77); "...when I kept silent, my bones wasted away through my groaning all day long. For day and night your hand was heavy upon me; my strength was dried up as by the heat of summer" (Psalm 32). Because of the effects of wrongdoing we can experience deep upset in our emotions that reminds us there is an uncomfortable distance between the Lord and us. Also worth remembering: "In the days of his flesh, Jesus offered up prayers and supplications, with loud cries and tears, to him who was able to save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverence" (Hebrews 5:7, ESV).

Hello there Wayne. You are so right — whatever way we make ourselves the focus holds us back. That's been my experience too (been around that block a few times to be honest!), but by looking to Him and renewing my mind day by day helps to fix me. What you've shared from Colossians is excellent. I've just been reading that passage again to help start my day. Putting sin to death, putting on the new nature, and knowing Him, with all that love and peace bring, "Then vs 16-17, let the richness of the message of Christ fill us and teach and instruct others." Your final comment is an important truth to take into every new day: willfully sinning "is devastating to our sanctification process." Thanks for your refreshing comments.

One of the most interesting and balanced treatments of this general subject comes from Dr Peter Gentry in his video "Who Were the Nephilim?" It's worth searching for and listening to, in my opinion. Another video "Is the Fall of Satan Really Described in the Bible?" is worth thinking over too. At the end of this video he wisely says, "There are many people who would like to fill in the gaps."

Rather than responding through the vageries of spin, I'd certainly agree with Wallace's definition of critical biblical scholarship: "...I believe any good scholar will be a critical scholar — that is, he or she will wrestle with the historical, grammatical, sociological, textual, and lexical data from the perspective of a scientific investigator who is seeking the truth. A non-critical approach simply assumes a position then seeks evidence that will support it." He has also written: "I believe that the Bible is the inspired Word of God. I confess verbal-plenary inspiration and embrace both infallibility and inerrancy... I believe that the NT is the final revelation of God in terms of a revelation for all his people. That is, whether there is the prophetic gift today is not what I am speaking against (or for): the final revelation for the invisible church is found in the NT. Nothing after the completion of the NT can add to the foundation of our credo" (Bible.org). Regardless of the textual base or methodology we espouse, we can each use quality translations of Scripture to grow spiritually in the knowledge of Christ. In faith we can be throughly equipped for good works through the fullness of its teaching.

From the unreasonable and foolish standpoint of a somewhat dizzy cherry-picking fundamentalist, this thread is a telling tale that sends us through a temporal maze of theories wrapped around assumptions built on presumptions that glued together bring us to a conclusion where the only certainty is the dead end of ambiguity. In the words of a song, "I gotta do better than this". Can anyone relate? I hope so...

You've possibly missed my point John? We can't tar all pastors with the same brush, as the thread's title suggests. That said, there are certainly examples of poor teaching that go unchallenged in some assemblies. I've experienced that myself and know those who left their church to move to another. As a result many are mislead, deceived (as you rightly point out) or are held back from spiritual growth.

Don't you think some here may feel a tad aggrieved by the suggestion their pastors would deliberately avoid these scriptures? That's certainly not the case in my experience. Maybe you mean that in some churches today Scripture's authority is being diluted and generally replaced by a lukewarm teaching that doesn't challenge believers to follow Christ more closely. That's certainly true. "Scriptures some pastors might avoid"?

How can this be when every living creature perished? "The end of all flesh has come before Me; for the earth is filled with violence because of them; and behold, I am about to destroy them with the earth... ...every living thing that I have made I will blot out from the face of the ground..."; ...And all flesh died that moved on the earth... He blotted out every living thing that was on the face of the ground... They were blotted out from the earth. Only Noah was left, and those who were with him in the ark... "the intention of man's heart is evil from his youth. Neither will I ever again strike down every living creature as I have done" (from Genesis 6-8).

Hello again. I'm not sure if this is exactly what you had in mind but this page may be of interest: https://biblereasons.com/trinity-in-the-bible/

I was wondering if anyone here used theWord Bible software? After seeing this thread I was thinking again of shifting over to Logos, but I just couldn’t justify it. When I thought it through the tools I use regularly on PC and my tablet conveniently provide all the information I personally ever need. These days we are spoiled for choice. theWord is a very useful way to dig into Scripture in a variety of contexts. “Modules” can be bought to extend your library where necessary. It’s definitely not as slick and far-reaching as Logos, but I’ve found over the decades like most believers there’s a limit to the reaching I need to do anyway! If your focus is primarily God’s Word itself, several quality translations, some Bible language tools, a few key commentaries (some better than others!), dictionaries and a good collection of tables, illustrations and maps are probably all most of us will ever need. theWord allows “My Verse-notes” and “My Subject-notes” to be imported into new versions of the software, and notes’ files can be regularly manually saved out to an external device for safe-keeping should my PC suddenly crash. But I compile notes in a word processor. On my PC/laptop I usually have Kindle software running in another window alongside theWord to conveniently access study Bibles along with other publications such as Vine’s New Testament Word Pictures and Mounce's Complete Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words. I've been estimating the overall cost. In all contexts, the digital tools (including the cost-effective Tecarta app) and other publications I regularly use have cost me £250+. But these days I wonder how much we can save by using Bible Hub: https://www.biblehub.com/