SavedOnebyGrace

The source for my reply is: Biblical Archaeology. Is the biblical Exodus fact or fiction? This is a loaded question. Although biblical scholars and archaeologists argue about various aspects of Israel’s Exodus from Egypt, many of them agree that the Exodus occurred in some form or another. The question “Did the Exodus happen” then becomes “When did the Exodus happen?” This is another heated question. Although there is much debate, most people settle into two camps: They argue for either a 15th-century B.C.E. or 13th-century B.C.E. date for Israel’s Exodus from Egypt. So we can accept God's word as true, or question everything in the Bible. Personally, I believe God's word. A worker’s house from western Thebes also seems to support a 13th-century Exodus. In the 1930s, archaeologists at the University of Chicago were excavating the mortuary Temple of Aya and Horemheb, the last two pharaohs of Egypt’s 18th Dynasty, in western Thebes. The temple was first built by Aya in the 14th-century B.C.E., but Horemheb usurped and expanded the temple when he became pharaoh. (He ruled from the late 14th century through the early 13th century B.C.E.) Horemheb chiseled out every place where Aya’s name had been and replaced it with his own. Later—during the reign of Ramses IV (12th century B.C.E.)—the Temple of Aya and Horemheb was demolished. During their excavations, the University of Chicago uncovered a house and part of another house belonging to the workers who were given the task of demolishing the temple. The plan of the complete house is the same as that of the four-room house characteristic of Israelite dwellings during the Iron Age. However, unlike the Israelite models that were usually constructed of stone, the Theban house was made of wattle and daub. It is significant that this house was built in Egypt at the same time that Israelites were constructing four-room houses in Canaan. The similarities between the two have caused some to speculate that the builders of the Theban house were either proto-Israelites or a group closely related to the Israelites. A third piece of evidence for the Exodus is the Onomasticon Amenope. The Onomasticon Amenope is a list of categorized words from Egypt’s Third Intermediate Period. Written in hieratic, the papyrus includes the Semitic place name b-r-k.t, which refers to the Lakes of Pithom. Even in Egyptian sources, the Semitic name for the Lakes of Pithom was used instead of the original Egyptian name. It is likely that a Semitic-speaking population lived in the region long enough that their name eventually supplanted the original. Read the whole article for additional evidence.

You have twisted my words for your own edification. May God's will be done.

Source: Bruce Waltke Restitution Theory This is from the late Dr. Michael S Heiser's website, "The Naked Bible". I am fortunate to have Merrill F. Unger's 2-Volume OT Commentary referenced above.

(Genesis 1:2) The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters. [ESV] Genesis 1:2 - One of several conservative interpretations of the Genesis account of creation, the creation-reconstruction view, says that between verses 1 and 2 a great catastrophe occurred, perhaps the fall of Satan (see Eze_28:11-19). This caused God's original, perfect creation to become without form and void (t–hû wãv–hû). Since God didn't create the earth waste and empty (see Isa_45:18), only a mighty cataclysm could explain the chaotic condition of verse 2. Proponents of this view point out that the word translated was (hãyethã) could also be translated "had become." Thus the earth "had become waste and empty." [Believer's Bible Commentary]

Basically, I was trying to show how absurd it is to force logic into an argument regarding biblical interpretation. Disregard my post. Sorry.

@FreeGrace Mathematics is an important field of study that supports other scientific fields of study but not bound by them. Logic is a subset of Philosophy, Psychology, Behaviour Science, Game Theory, Probability and Statistics, etc. Interpreting the Bible requires knowledge of the original languages used, vocabulary, parts of speech, colloquial words and their common usuage, etc. How one can elevate logic higher than the inspired words of the Bible, seems absurd and inappropriate to me. As an engineering student at UMR, programming terms like A=A+1 may look absurd but are a necessity.

@FreeGrace So we can eliminate all YEC arguments since I have found ALL to be illogical and devoid of scientific evidence.

From the little I've had a chance to read, great presentation that deserves some serious study. Well done!

So being well-defined in the science of logic is a prerequisite to having a discussion with your brother and sister Christians? So science is only useful when you use it since you balk anytime anyone else does.

People debate because they like to argue. No one benefits from these arguments. Do you need your ego stroked?

What do you think this is a high school debate? If you two people believe this is a debate and not a search for truth, you two should continue the "the debate" on the special debate topic.

The author of the book In the Beginnings, by Steven E Dill, wrote another book in 2018 entitled Nobody Wrote This Book: The Philosophy,Theology, and Science of Creation and Evolution. I've just started reading it, but I suspect I'll be recommending it before too long. just a quick question: Does anyone here use commentaries besides me while they're reading scriptures?

The Psalm writer let's us peak behind-the-scenes. "He judgeth among the gods." Who can do that but God Almighty! The "gods"mentioned here are angels or some other heavenly beings.

I too have to take medications, but that doesn't mean you and I don't have enough faith. No one should put you down for taking meds.

Some church services seem to run them almost simultaneously.

I've spent a great deal of time with Psalm 82. I guess it's my favorite at this point in time. I've spent many an hour researching based The Unseen Realm by the late Dr. Michael S. Heiser.

The problem comes when we try to make Genesis actual Science. Prehistory is only glossed over unless you believe God is a deceiver. (That's the problem I have YEC) Genesis was a stumbling block for me. My parochial school teaching was inconsistent at best and led me to agnosticism for over a decade. Maybe that's why I am so drawn to the Genesis Gap Theory or the Day-Age Theory. Genesis is written for people in an agrarian society. The days may be longer or not in the same order, but the truth of creation remains. But in any case, our salvation does not depend on one view or another. I was taught a literal interpretation and evolution, that Genesis is not literal, all in parochial schools. This drove me to a decade of agnosticism. The creation account is beautifully presented by Moses.

Everybody makes points that cannot be acceptable to everyone who reads it. I hope we (at Worthy Christian Forums) can agree to disagree and move on. I find value in discussions with all the people below. It's important to be able to discuss subjects which we may not ever agree with. That doesn't mean value can't be found in people you disagree with. Make ignore a last action. @teddyv @FreeGrace @BeyondET

We are being seduced by worldly wisdom and treasures that are no treasures at all.

If God is light, darkness would indicate an absence of God right? If God is not present, would chaos reign?

The Grand Canyon is the result of a flood 4000 years ago! All this has been done under God's direction. There's hidden gems in the Psalms.

That 's it. We even corresponded via email when the previous edition of his book came out. This is the first book I recommend to explain the Gap Theory to friends and relatives. There are others since I've been studying this subject since the early '80s. If the Gap Theory doesn't work for you, any book by Dr. Hugh Ross should be good for the Day-Age understanding.

There's a lot of information for Gap people at kjvbible.org (Kenneth Johnson wrote a lot of material on the website besides a illustrated book which I also have.) My favorite book on the Gap Theory is by Dr. Steven Dill entitled called "In the Beginnings". He was an evolutionist earlier in life. Another writer I like is David Snoke. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Snoke He's a physicist. These three are modern writers but there are quite a few more. Michael Behe and Stephen C. Meyer are other scientists I also read. DNA is also a subject of interest for me.

Excellent. I tend to think in terms of geological periods: https://www.geologyin.com/2016/12/10-interesting-facts-about-geological.html . Gap people (like me) tend to view this set of geological periods within Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2.

Let's agree to disagree on that minor part.