Jedi4Yahweh

I am pointing out that Jesus never taught of pre-tribulation rapture when the disciples asked him what will be the sign of the end times. If there was a pre-tribulation rapture event Jesus would have made some mention of a rapture prior to the tribulation events, but there is no mention other then the rapture immediately after the tribulation. To add in this pre-tribulation event prior to tribulation is adding something to scriptures that simple is not there. And to say so is also saying there are two separate raptures one prior to the tribulation and one immediately after, which is not taught in scriptures.

Brother, I agree to a certain degree, but I think there is a difference between quenching the Spirit verses blaspheming the Spirit. Quenching means stopping the flow of the Spirit or suppressing the manifestation of the Spirit. Where as Blaspheme means to speak evil of in this case speaking evil of the manifestations of the Spirit.

It was true that old covenant keeping Jews were considered the elect under the old covenant but under the new covenant now in place anyone who is born again and saved by Messiah (Jew or Gentile) are called 'the elect'. It apples to both to circumcised or uncircumcised. See below stated earlier. :

In Mat 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21. The disciples ask Jesus what will be the sign of the your coming and the end of the world. Jesus gives them a long list of signs to be looking for and not once in the list of signs ever mentions a pre-tribulation rapture event. You would think the rapture being such a huge event, he would had mentioned this as one of the signs leading up to the end of the world. Not one hint of a pre-trib rapture mentioned. The only evidence of a rapture mentioned is the one at the end of the great tribulation at his coming. Mat 24:29-31 ESV - "Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Mar 13:24-27 ESV - "But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will be falling from heaven, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken. And then they will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory. And then he will send out the angels and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of heaven. Luk 21:25-28 ESV - "And there will be signs in sun and moon and stars, and on the earth distress of nations in perplexity because of the roaring of the sea and the waves, people fainting with fear and with foreboding of what is coming on the world. For the powers of the heavens will be shaken. And then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. Now when these things begin to take place, straighten up and raise your heads, because your redemption is drawing near." Please show me where Jesus mentions a pre-tibulation prior to his 2nd coming from Mat 24, Luk 21, or Mark 13 where Jesus is teaching the end-time signs and events? Jason

Anybody that God has chosen for salvation is considered his Elect including Gentiles. Paul writing to Gentiles called them 'the elect'. Col 3:11-12 KJV - Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond [nor] free: but Christ [is] all, and in all. Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, long-suffering; Elect means chosen by God. 1Pe 2:9 ESV - But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light. The word 'chosen' is the same greek work eklektos for 'elect'.

The point of my original post was that some people try to say that the teachings of Jesus do not apply to Gentiles, saying he was under the old covenant and his teaching were old covenant. Some also say that some of the letters of the apostles aside from Paul was written to Jews only. Which I made the point that Jesus told all his disciples/apostles to take all the things he taught them to all the nations not just Jews. So the teachings of Jesus and all the apostles are applicable to all NT believers.

That maybe applicable as well but in context using Jesus example its referring to people who call the manifestation of the gifts of the Holy Spirit as demonic.

Okay explain what John meant when speaking by the Holy Spirit said: Rev 13:8 NKJV - All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. How was Jesus able to forgive sin, heal the sick, set the captives free before the cross ever happened? And then answer: Are we as Christian to follow the teachings and commandments of Jesus?

I gave you an answer just because you dont like it does not mean I did not answer you.

Yes, I did and then you add an addition question which i have not responded to until you answer mine.

Answer my question: Do we follow the teaching and commandments of Jesus?

I answered your question and now answer mine.

Yes, he physically died in Jerusalem 33 AD but was John the Apostle also states that he was spiritually slain from the beginning of creation. Now answer: Do we follow Jesus teachings and commandments?

Let me ask you this are we required to follow and obey the teachings of Jesus?

Your not arguing with me but with scriptures. Its say he was slain from the very foundation of the world. This why God demand a lamb to be sacrificed for sin because it represented the Lamb of God. God had preordained this from the beginning of time.

Rev 13:8 NKJV - All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. Brother, The Lamb of God was slain since the very beginning of creation.

True, so you obey those whom you trust and have faith in. Luk 6:46 NKJV - "But why do you call Me 'Lord, Lord,' and not do the things which I say?

In context of that scripture of sinning against the Holy Spirit was because they said that Jesus was casting out demons using demonic powers and not by God. They were associating the work of the Holy Spirit which Jesus operated in as a demonic spirit. Jesus said this sin can never be forgiven. How is this applicable today? The bible speaks that God gave certain gifts to people by the Holy Spirit such as prophecy, healing, miracles, gift of diverse tongues, gift of discernment, gift of knowledge and wisdom. When people are operating in the Holy Spirit and when people accuse them of operating by demons they have blasphemed the Holy Spirit which gave them that gift. In context: Mar 3:22-30 NLT - But the teachers of religious law who had arrived from Jerusalem said, "He's possessed by Satan, the prince of demons. That's where he gets the power to cast out demons." Jesus called them over and responded with an illustration. "How can Satan cast out Satan?" he asked. "A kingdom divided by civil war will collapse. Similarly, a family splintered by feuding will fall apart. And if Satan is divided and fights against himself, how can he stand? He would never survive. Let me illustrate this further. Who is powerful enough to enter the house of a strong man like Satan and plunder his goods? Only someone even stronger--someone who could tie him up and then plunder his house. "I tell you the truth, all sin and blasphemy can be forgiven, but anyone who blasphemes the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven. This is a sin with eternal consequences." He told them this because they were saying, "He's possessed by an evil spirit." 1Co 12:7-11 NKJV - But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit [of all]: for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit, to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another [different] kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills.

This has been derailed from the original topic...just a bunch off topic bickering.

No tell us. Does Jesus words and teachings apply to Gentiles?

So your saying Jesus teaching dont apply to Gentiles? Mat 28:19-20 KJV - Go ye therefore, and teach all nations (Jews & Gentiles)...teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you

Brother, Jesus never said that he came to set us free from the Law, he came to set us free from sin. In fact he taught us the how to keep the law. The whole sermon on the mount was about how to keep the law of God correctly. Jesus stated, 'you have heard that you shall not murder but I tell dont even hate in your heart or your already guilty of murder. You have heard dont comment adultery but I tell you dont even look at women lustfully or you already have commented adultery', etc... Jesus never once mentioned that he came to set us free from his commandments he taught us to obey them. Read these: Mat 5:19 KJV - Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. Jhn 14:15, 21 KJV - If ye love me, keep my commandments. ... He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. Jhn 15:10 KJV - If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. Jhn 14:15 KJV - If ye love me, keep my commandments. 1Jo 2:3-4 KJV - And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1Jo 3:24 KJV - And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us. 1Jo 5:2 KJV - By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. Rev 12:17 KJV - And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. The new covenant is God putting his law in your hearts for you to obey. God Bless, Jason

Believe me they are on here. They are teaching that everything Jesus taught in the Gospels was Old Covenant and that we are not under that covenant and therefore what ever Jesus taught does not apply to Christians today. Its absurd but I know, but there are people on here teaching that. They also teach that much of the new testament writers outside of Paul are writing to old covenant Jews and not Christians and therefore does not apply to Christians such as the Epistles from John, Peter and James.

This is something I am constantly seeing taught and regurgitated by Christians today and I am frequently seeing this matter brought up here in these forums that: Jesus teachings dont apply to Gentiles only Jews and that we only follow Paul's teachings. I have seen people abandoning the teachings of Jesus (Gospels) and other letters of the bible such as James, John, Hebrews, and Peters and saying they were only writing to Jews and their teaching dont apply to Gentiles. They say we follow Paul's teaching since he was an apostle to the Gentiles. NEWS FLASH: All the Apostles were responsible for taking the teachings of Jesus called the Gospel to all the nations not just Paul. Jesus commanded all his apostles to take everything that he had taught them to all the nations. They were all called to be apostles to both Jews and Gentiles. Jesus told his 11 disciples: Mat 28:19-20 KJV - Go ye therefore, and teach all nations (Jews & Gentiles)...teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen. If you do a little research you find that all the Apostles eventually left Israel and went everywhere preaching the Gospel and teaching followers to keep and obey what Jesus had taught them. James the brother of Jesus was called the Leader of many of the churches in Asia, John the beloved Apostle established many of the churches in Asia minor hence in Revelation he addressed the 7 churches in Asia. Peter the Apostle went all over the place preaching and eventually end up in Rome where he was was killed. Its the same for all the apostles. All the apostles were sent to both Jew and Gentile preaching the same gospel that Jesus taught them. Jesus is the foundation of the New Covenant and it applies to both Jew and Gentile and their is no difference in what Jesus taught and what all the apostles taught. The teachings of Jesus applies to both Jew and Gentile believers equally. The apostle of Jesus did not bring a different gospel to the Gentiles than what Jesus taught them. The New Covenant which Gentile believers are under is a Jewish covenant that was promised to them specifically but was extended to Gentiles out of the goodness and grace of God. The Prophets spoke of this new covenant that was intended for Israel: Jer 31:31-33 KJV - Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day [that] I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: But this [shall be] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. Heb 12:24, 28 KJV - And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than [that of] Abel. ... Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear: The new covenant that was promised to Israel is the same new covenant the we Gentiles are adopted into. Paul confirms this: Eph 2:11-13 KJV - Wherefore remember, that ye [being] in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by those whom are of Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the citizenship of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. Mat 26:28 KJV - For this is my blood of the new testament (covenant), which is shed for many for the remission of sins. The New Covenant that Jesus established and taught to Jews is the same covenant and teachings the apostles have taken to the Gentile nations. So dont deceive yourself and think I dont have to keep and obey what Jesus taught or any of apostles writings. They are for all believers Jews and Gentiles. If you are a believer then you have been brought into the new covenant that was promised to Israel which was established by Jesus the mediator of the New Covenant to the Jew first but now to all Gentiles.

John seems to writing this directly to the Churches in Asia which he oversees. Rev 1:4 NASB - John to the seven churches that are in Asia: Grace to you and peace, from Him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne Notice it does not include a lot of the other churches such as the ones in Rome, Greece, Spain, and certain parts of Asia that Paul established such as Corinthia, Phillipi, Antioch, Rome, Galatia, etc... Sure we can gain some useful knowledge from these messages to the churches but I think we are trying to over spiritualize these into mystical categories of modern day churches. Pauls letters were also written to specific churches he established but also applicable for today's church for instructions in godliness.