Jedi4Yahweh

So what you're saying is that being Israel has more to do with their faith then their genetics. I think this is what lekh l'kha was saying as well. Obviously if some of those called out of Egypt decided not to follow Moses then they where not apart of Israel because they had no faith. Lines right up with what Paul says : Rom 9:25-27 As indeed he says in Hosea, "Those who were not my people I will call 'my people,' and her who was not beloved I will call 'beloved.'" (26) "And in the very place where it was said to them, 'You are not my people,' there they will be called 'sons of the living God.'" (27) And Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: "Though the number of the sons of Israel be as the sand of the sea, only a remnant of them will be saved

Yeah I have heard that before, but I don't think he was speaking in terms of imagination. It says that God will have to cut the time short before all flesh is destroyed. It sounds more literal then imaginary. I don't know how making the time seem shorter in the mind saves lives. I know on days that seem to fly by are the days I got the most done and the days I did nothing kind of creeped by. I would have to assume Jesus is not speaking figuratively. lol Think about it a little more. Is it imagination when time seems to fly by or is reality that we have been so busy to not realize the time? When God says 1,260 days, being specific with the number, I believe Him. I do believe there is another meaning beside the number of days. Yeah I don't know right now. I have a hard time believing he is referring to some figmentational short time. There has to be a better explanation. It could mean that somewhere in the midst of those 3.5 years God intervenes...possibly raptures the church while the world continues in total annihilation. Maybe this happens just prior to the Wrath of God in which believers are not sujected to. So cutting the time short for the elect sake but not for the world.

Yeah I have heard that before, but I don't think he was speaking in terms of imagination. It says that God will have to cut the time short before all flesh is destroyed. It sounds more literal then imaginary. I don't know how making the time seem shorter in the mind saves lives. I know on days that seem to fly by are the days I got the most done and the days I did nothing kind of creeped by. I would have to assume Jesus is not speaking figuratively. lol

I don't mean to make America out to be bad or nothing. I actually love Ameica and sad at the state America has fallen to and it seems to be only getting worse with the type of politicians we elect. I believe America has been a good country and a light and hope to many countries, but that seems to be changing fast. I think Babylon was much like America that was rich with goods and blessed many people but over time became corrupt and evil. Much like the harlot in Rev 17, America is become a whore to other nations and the light she once had is no more or quickly going out. Maybe this is why the nations mourned for her loss so greatly.

Question regarding the 3 1/2 years of great tribulation which Christ spoke of, says that the end times will be shortened for the elects sake or no flesh will be saved. Does this mean God is going to intervene before the 3.5 years of great tribulation ends. Meaning that the great tribulation is not going to last 3.5 years or it could mean that God is going to rapture the Church before the end of the 3.5 years while Gods wrath is poured out on the Anti-Christ and his followers. Whats your take? Mat 24:21-22 for then shall be great tribulation, such as hath not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, nor ever shall be. (22) And except those days had been shortened, no flesh would have been saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

While Jesus says "of that day and hour knoweth no man" (Matthew 24:36), he doesn't say "of that day and hour no man will know". That is, he could have been referring only to the time in which Matthew 24:36 was spoken, not to the future. For elsewhere he says: "Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth... and he will shew you things to come" (John 16:13). That is, the Holy Spirit can show Christians when Jesus will return. This is similar to what Paul says: "even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things" (1 Corinthians 2:11-12). Also, Amos says: "Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets" (Amos 3:7). In Matthew 24:44, Jesus could mean that only if Christians don't watch (stay awake, spiritually), his return will happen when they aren't expecting it; compare: "If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee" (Revelation 3:3). For just prior to Matthew 24:44, Jesus had suggested that it is possible for Christians to know when he will return and to watch for that return: "But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. Therefore be ye also ready" (Matthew 24:43-44), just as Paul says: "ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief" (1 Thessalonians 5:4). Also, Jesus had just finished saying that he won't return and gather together the church until immediately after the tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31). And other scriptures show that Jesus can't return and gather together the church until sometime after there's a falling away (an apostasy) in the church and the Antichrist sits in the temple and declares himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:1-4, Matthew 24:9-31). For when Jesus returns to gather together (and marry) the church he will destroy the Antichrist (2 Thessalonians 2:1,8, Revelation 19:7,20). So before Jesus returns, the church will have to go through the world-reign of the Antichrist (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4, Matthew 24:9-31), which world-reign could begin when the Antichrist's followers set up the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing image of the Antichrist) in the holy place of a third Jewish temple in Jerusalem (Daniel 11:31, Matthew 24:15, Revelation 11:1), and the Antichrist himself sits in the temple and declares himself God (Daniel 11:36, 2 Thessalonians 2:4). Jesus could return on the 1,335th day after the abomination of desolation is set up (Daniel 12:11-12, Revelation 16:15). The saved, whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life, can fail to watch (stay awake, spiritually) during the time of the coming tribulation, just as during any other time. That's why Jesus commands them to make certain that they continue to watch (stay awake, spiritually) all the way up to the second coming (Matthew 24:42-47), immediately after the tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31). One way for the saved to fail to watch (stay awake, spiritually) is for them to continue in unrepentant sin all the way up to the second coming, so that they will end up losing their salvation for unrepentant sin (Matthew 24:48-51, Hebrews 10:26-29, 1 Corinthians 9:27, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, Galatians 5:19-21, 2 Peter 2:20-22, Hebrews 5:9). Another way for the saved to fail to watch (stay awake, spiritually) is for them to fail to patiently continue in good works all the way up to the second coming (Matthew 24:46), so that they will end up losing their salvation for unrepentant laziness (Matthew 25:26,30, John 15:2, Romans 2:6-8, James 2:24, Philippians 2:12, 2 Corinthians 5:9, 2 Peter 1:10-11, Hebrews 6:10-12, Hebrews 5:9). Another way for the saved to fail to watch (stay awake, spiritually) is for them to fail to continue in the faith to the end (Matthew 24:9-13), so that they will will end up losing their salvation for apostasy (Mark 8:35-38, Hebrews 6:4-8, John 15:6, 2 Timothy 2:12, Colossians 1:23, Hebrews 3:6,14). Those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life will end up having their names blotted out of the book of life if they fail to overcome (Revelation 3:5), such as if they fail to be willing to die for Jesus' sake during the coming tribulation (Revelation 12:11, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4). How do you define "close"? For before the second coming and rapture occurs, all of the events of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6-18 have to occur. Regarding what could happen to fulfill the myriad tribulation details of Revelation chapters 6-18, the tribulation could begin in the future with the horrible war (and its aftermath) of the second through fourth seals (Revelation 6:4-8). The way this war could happen is that the U.S. could build up the Iraqi Army until it's huge enough and well-equipped enough to serve as a proxy army (for the U.S. and Israel) for an all-out ground invasion of Iran (to end Iran's nuclear weapons program and extremist regime). As part of the buildup of the Iraqi Army, the U.S. could reinstall some of the former Baathist military hierarchy to run the Iraqi Army more efficiently and ruthlessly. And if the current Shiite-dominated government of Iraq balks at any invasion of fellow-Shiite Iran, the CIA and the Mossad could then help the Baathists (who see non-Arab Iran as an enemy of Arab autonomy) to take back complete control of Iraq via a coup d'etat. But then, right when Iraq is all ready to invade Iran, some ultra-Orthodox Jews in Israel could destroy the Muslim Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa Mosque (the third holiest sites in Islam) on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem, to prepare the site for the building of a third Jewish temple. This could so enrage Muslims worldwide, including the (Muslim) Iraqi Army, that the Iraqi Baathist Generals could see it as a perfect excuse to abandon the plan to invade huge Iran and instead turn and send their huge army against tiny Israel, completely defeating it (Daniel 11:15-17; in verse 17, the Hebrew word translated as "daughter" is "bath"). But this would not be the ultimate reason for the Baathist attack, which could continue on south to also defeat the current Egyptian regime (Daniel 11:15), which the Baathists could see as a puppet of the U.S., just as they could see Israel as a colony of the U.S. The ultimate aim of Baathism is to unite all Arab lands from Oman to Morocco into one massive, powerful United Arab States free of all foreign hegemony. The all-out Iraqi attack on Israel could be joined by the Baathist Syrian Army (with all of its missiles, many tipped with nerve agents), as well as by all of Iran's long-range missiles and all of Hizballah's and Hamas' missiles and guerrillas. Tiny Israel could find itself suddenly attacked from all sides, thousands of missiles raining down all at once on all of its cities and military bases, hundreds of Iraqi tanks (meant to occupy huge Iran) pouring across its borders. As Israel starts to see its tiny sliver of land completely overrun, and sees its defeat as imminent, in retaliation it could drop nuclear bombs on Baghdad, Damascus (Isaiah 17:1), Tehran, and all the other major cities of Iraq, Syria, and Iran. There could be so many nuclear explosions sending so much radioactive dust and ash so high into the atmosphere that it could be blown eastward and fall on hugely-populated South Asia, ruining so many crop fields and immune systems there with radiation that one-fourth of the world could end up dying from the war and its aftermath of famines and epidemics. This could fulfill the horrible war which will begin the coming tribulation, which war will, with its aftermath of famines and epidemics, end up killing one-fourth of the world (Revelation 6:4-8). The "great sword" of this war (Revelation 6:4) could be Israel's nuclear weapons. And this brings us only to the fourth seal of the tribulation (Revelation 6:8). After that there will be a terrible series of natural disasters unprecedented in their magnitude, such as a gigantic volcanic eruption (Revelation 6:12-14), possibly of the Yellowstone Caldera, and then the collapse into the ocean of another volcano (Revelation 8:8-9), possibly one of the Canary Islands, the collapse of which could set up a huge tsunami which could take out the eastern seaboard of the U.S. Then a comet will strike the earth (Revelation 8:10-11), possibly in the U.S. Great Lakes region. As the comet falls from the sky it will look like a great star, or like a burning lamp in the sky (Revelation 8:10). It will strike a region of the earth which contains a third of the world's fresh surface water (Revelation 8:10), and it will contain some poisonous element which will poison that third of the world's fresh surface water so that many who drink from it will die (Revelation 8:11). After that will come a one-two punch of what the world will no doubt try to interpret as being two different "alien" invasions, the first "aliens" being weird locust-like creatures which will suddenly swarm up from the bottomless pit to torment mankind with excruciating stings for five months (Revelation 9:2-10). They will be led by a fallen angel named Abaddon (Revelation 9:11). The world could see the weird locust-like creatures coming up from the ground as aliens which had been hibernating for thousands of years in caverns deep within the earth's crust. The locust-like creatures won't kill anyone, but they will make those they sting want to die the pain will be so bad (Revelation 9:5-6). After the locust-like creatures have stung mankind for five months, the locust-like creatures could be killed off by an army of 200,000,000 weird horse-like creatures who will then come upon the earth and kill a third of mankind (Revelation 9:16-18). This army will be led by four powerful fallen angels who will be released from being bound in the Euphrates (Revelation 9:14-15). If the army of horse-creatures descends from the sky in spaceships, the world could see them as a different race of aliens. The fallen angels could employ the army of horse-like creatures to make mankind completely desperate before its complete takeover by Satan (the dragon) and the Antichrist (the beast) mid-tribulation (Revelation 12:9-13:18). When the army of 200,000,000 weird horse-like creatures starts killing a third of mankind (Revelation 9:16-18), then could also begin the biggest deception ever wrought upon mankind (besides the original one in Eden). For the Antichrist, who by that time could have managed to have been elected as the President of a Mediterranean Union formed by the joining of the European Union with an Arab Union stretching from Oman to Morocco, could announce to the world that he has sent a mental distress call to (what he could call) "My Father, our Lord Lucifer, to come with his legions of angels and rescue mankind from these terrible aliens". It's at his point that Lucifer and his angels could be cast down out of heaven to the earth for good after losing a war in heaven (Revelation 12:7-9). But instead of coming down as a defeated force, they could descend for all the world to see in beautiful, gleaming spaceships onto the "Champ de Mars" (Mars being the same as Marduk, the chief god of ancient Babylon), the large open area in front of the Eiffel Tower in Paris. And Lucifer, a literal, seven-headed dragon (Revelation 12:3) could emerge in great splendor and command his legions of angels to destroy all the horse-like "aliens" slaughtering mankind. Lucifer could say that he has come to rescue mankind because the Antichrist, who he could say is his only-begotten "Son", was able to send out a mental distress call to his "Father" Lucifer in heaven to come to the rescue with his legions of angels (like an Antichrist counterfeit of Matthew 26:53: "Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?"). Lucifer and the Antichrist could then be received by the world as the saviors of mankind. The world could at first see the dragon Lucifer and his angels as merely different aliens, more powerful than the horse-like aliens. The world could think that Lucifer and his angels are (in the world's words) "come to visit the earth and help mankind to survive this awful tribulation. They will bring us to the next level of scientific advancement and to the next level of spiritual enlightenment". The New Agers could even welcome them with open arms as the "Ascended Masters" come in person to bring mankind into "the New Age". Lucifer and his angels themselves could explain to the world that they aren't aliens in the sense of material beings from somewhere else in the galaxy, but are a higher order of (in their words) "wholly-beneficent" spiritual beings come from the third-heaven spiritual realm (outside of the material universe) to rescue mankind. Lucifer and the Antichrist, along with the miracle-working False Prophet of the Antichrist, will then deceive the world into actually worshipping Lucifer (the dragon) and the Antichrist (the beast), and an image of the Antichrist (Revelation 13:4-16, Revelation 19:20, 2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36). And everyone will be made to receive a mark of the Antichrist on their right hand or forehead, consisting of the name of the Antichrist or the number of his name (Revelation 13:16-18). The Antichrist will turn the world against YHWH, the God of the Bible, speaking terrible things against him (Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36). The Antichrist could lie and say that it was YHWH who sent against mankind the awful alien creatures (and all the preceding, natural disasters of the tribulation: Revelation 6:12-14, Revelation 8:7-12), when in fact it could be Lucifer and his fallen angels who did all of that from behind the scenes, so that they could subsequently arrive on the world stage as if they were the good guys come to rescue mankind. They could promise mankind that they will help mankind to defeat YHWH and to escape (what they could call) "YHWH's vile prisonhouse of this material universe, and return to the heavenly, spiritual realm of bliss, the Pleroma, where mankind existed in pure-spirit form from all eternity, before by some mishap mankind fell into YHWH's trap and became enmeshed in the material realm". This lie is what Gnosticism teaches. The Antichrist will be Gnostic, for he will revile YHWH (Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36) and deny that Christ is flesh (1 John 4:3). The Antichrist will at the same time also be Luciferian, for he will bring the world into the worship of Lucifer (Satan) the dragon (Revelation 13:4). The Antichrist could present him to the world as (in his words) "Our Lord Lucifer, the Savior of mankind. He will free us from YHWH's tyranny and lead us back into the Pleroma to live in bliss forever". After Lucifer and the Antichrist have completely deceived the world and ruled it ruthlessly for 42 months (Revelation 13:4-18), YHWH will send his vials of wrath against the unsaved world (Revelation 16). Those in the church who will still be alive on the earth at the time of the vials (Revelation 16:15) will go into protective chambers which they will have built for themselves on the earth (Isaiah 26:20), just as Noah and his family went into the protective ark which they had built for themselves on the earth (Genesis 7:7). Near the end of the vials of wrath, unclean spirits like frogs will come out of the mouths of Lucifer (the dragon), the Antichrist (the beast), and the False Prophet (Revelation 16:13), and these unclean spirits like frogs will go forth and perform amazing miracles to convince all the armies of the world to gather together at Armageddon (Har Megiddo: Mount Megiddo in northern Israel) (Revelation 16:16) in an attempt to fight and defeat YHWH himself (Revelation 16:14, Revelation 19:19). After gathering together at Armageddon, all the armies will then travel south and defeat Jerusalem, right before the real Christ, Jesus Christ (who is YHWH, John 10:30), returns from heaven and defeats them (Zechariah 14:2-15, Revelation 19:21). Jesus will at that time also defeat the Antichrist himself and the False Prophet (Revelation 19:20), and will have Lucifer bound in the bottomless pit for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:1-3). Jesus could return 1,335 days after the abomination of desolation is set up (Daniel 12:11-12). The 75 days between the end of the 1,260 days of the world-reign of the Antichrist (Revelation 12:6) and the return of Jesus (Revelation 19:7-21) could be taken up by the seven vials of God's wrath (Revelation 16), which will be poured out on the Antichrist and his followers (Revelation 16:2-21). Wow...nicely explained. That is pretty in-depth. How long did it take you to prepare this post??? lol Question regarding the 3 1/2 years of great tribulation which Jesus spoke of.. Jesus says that the end times will be shortened for the elects sake or no flesh will be saved. Does this mean God is going to intervene before the 3.5 years of great tribulation ends. Meaning that the great tribulation is not going to last 3.5 years or it could mean that God is going to rapture the Church before the end of the 3.5 years ends while the great tribulation and wrath or poured out on the Anti-Christ and his followers. Whats your take? Mat 24:21-22 for then shall be great tribulation, such as hath not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, nor ever shall be. (22) And except those days had been shortened, no flesh would have been saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. Maybe this should be a new topic.

I agree. They are confusing Tribulation with God's Wrath. Gods Wrath is poured out as the end of the tribulation. Yes we are saved from Gods Wrath but not from tribulation, persecution and martyrdom that comes from the World during the end times This is not to say that God will not give us the ability to endure and overcome tribulation and hardship. A good book to read is called The Pre-Wrath Rapture of the Church by Marvin Rosenthal.

Please show us in scripture where its says precisely that Christians will be taken and those left behind will still have a chance to convert. Please don't quote the left behind series. Where do you get they were beheaded??? It says they were sealed by God. You forgot to mention the multitude from all nations that no man could number. Rev 7:9 After these things I saw, and behold, a great multitude, which no man could number, out of every nation and of all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, arrayed in white robes, and palms in their hands; I agree believing either way is not a salvation issue, but it can be deceiving. Christians need to know what to expect and they need to know that they need to endure until the end or they too can fall away and commit apostasy or be deceived. Jesus warned us of this in Matt 24. Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man lead you astray. Mat 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up unto tribulation, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all the nations for my name's sake. Mat 24:10 And then shall many stumble, and shall deliver up one another, and shall hate one another. (Taking about Christians stumbling and betraying one another.) Mat 24:12 And because iniquity shall be multiplied, the love of the many shall wax cold. Mat 24:13 But he that endureth to the end, the same shall be saved.

Bible2 thanks for the great explanation. If you read the scriptures regarding the end times with out all the pre-tribulation theology floating around our head, then you can clearly see that the pre-trib doctrine holds no water. You would have to add to scripture or bend scripture to make it sound doctrine. If the pre-trib rapture was such an important event why didn't Christ speak of it when explaining the end time event in Matt 24. In fact Christ spoke in a way the seems suggest that believers will be here to see and experiance such things come to pass.

Interesting point...

Joh 14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. Joh 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? Joh 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. Joh 14:11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake. If Christ is a different person then the Father then why did Christ claim he was the Father.

Thats a misunderstanding of the scripture regarding the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Please read it again slowly. Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Notice the word name is singular and not plural. They go by the same name. It's the name above all names by which men are saved. I agree that God has three distinctive entities but so does man. (Spirit, Soul and Body), because we are created like God. Where we disagree is that each aspect of God is three persons rather than forming one person. To believe that God is three different people is the same as saying they are three different gods. Yet scripture plainly shows all three are the same person.

I believe it to be the reverse of what you say. God is one person. The Father, Holy Spirit and Word together make up God not three people or gods. God created us in his image so God created us like himself. Are we three persons? No! That is completely wrong! Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead Paul says that the Godhead can be understood by God's creation. If you want to understand the Godhead look to his creation. Since we are made in the image and likeness of God we can look at how God created us.. It's no mystery as you say. We are made in God's image just as he is? God is not three separate persons or gods either, he is one person. The bible says that the fullness of God dwelled in Christ. Col 2:9 For in him (Christ) dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. So that means Christ was all three in bodily form. Christ is the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit at the same time. One God, One Person.

I think it bares a two-fold meaning. Yes, Yahshua and the Apostles are the foundation of which the Church is built. I don't think Yahshua was just referring to Peter as the single member of this foundation but all the Apostles. Second meaning I believe refers not to Peter but to his statement of faith of who Yahshua is. The church today is built on our confession of Christ.

Yes, I believe the coming of the Lord is soon and maybe in our lfie time, who knows. As far looking for a pre-tribulation rapture...no That is a false misconception. The only rapture we will see is at the end of the tribulation at the Last Trumpet just before the wrath of God is poured out. This is called the second coming of the Lord in which the dead will rise to gather all his saints and punish evil doers. Also, called the great and terrible day of the Lord. 1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. The traditional rapture scripture (1Co15:52) refers to the "rapture" happing at the last trumpet. How can the last trumpet be before the tribulation period if there is another significant trumpet event at end of the tribulation. See next scripture. Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Compare with Joel: Joe 2:30 And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke. Joe 2:31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come. Joe 2:32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.

This one is a no brainer. The Book of Revelation (no 's') uses figures and clips from the Old Testament and from early New Testament letters as well. In this case, John gives a clue as to the city in the last line of the passage. Here is what Jesus said in Matthew 23: Mat 23:35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar. He's rebuking the Jewish leadership for their complicity in the killing of the prophets down through the ages. Where do these people live? J E R U S A L E M. Where is the temple located? J E R U S A L E M. What city was destroyed during THAT generation? J E R U S A L E M. The writer is speaking of Jerusalem. You can't project the past into the future. Learn Church, I beg of you, learn. Good point but most Jews live in America then in Israel. So those scriptures can still point to American. http://www.nationmas...stimated-number Besides according to Rev. Great Babylon ruled over many nations. I don’t see how Jerusalem fits that picture. and another point is Jerusalem is not known for its commerce and music. American music and commerce dominates in most every country.

It's standard to post your own sources, not to tell people to look for them. So, in your world, the BP explosion simply couldn't be the result of lax safety standards and circumstance? It simply has to be a conspiracy? I'll do a little homework for you; BP quit the alliance for Cap and Trade quite a while back. It was not in their best financial interests....according to them. See here:: http://finance.yahoo...801162.html?x=0 BP and Obama are partners. Obama has been by far the biggest recipient of BP donations even though Obama says he is against big oil. BP still supports the Cap and Trade legislation and will use it to drive out all other energy companies. I am not going to go post links but any wise person can simply Google it find out real quickly that BP and Obama are partners in crime for the push for the largest spending bill in all combined history at US tax payers exp

Yes, I dont believe that the gulf oil spill is an accident. Concidering Obamas push for Cap and Trade bill in the Senate and BP is a big supporter of Obamas's Cap and Trade bill and will benefit from its provisions in the future.. Read up on it and dont be fooled. The Oil Spill only enforces Obama's agenda for a Cap and Trade Bill. The cap and trade bill is nothing but a tool for goverment to take control over private business. So...you believe the President is behind this disaster in the Gulf? And that BP would benefit from Cap and Trade? Do you even know what Cap and Trade IS? Waiting for the next installment....you know, the Illuminati, the Bilderbergers and the 'shadowy figures' that are behind every single thing that happens in the world? Don't take my word for it, Google it. BP and Obama are both partners in the push for Cap and Trade take over. The oil rig explosion/spill timing seems much too convenient.

Yes, I dont believe that the gulf oil spill is an accident. Concidering Obamas push for Cap and Trade bill in the Senate and BP is a big supporter of Obamas's Cap and Trade bill and will benefit from its provisions in the future.. Read up on it and dont be fooled. The Oil Spill only enforces Obama's agenda for a Cap and Trade Bill. The cap and trade bill is nothing but a tool for goverment to take control over private business.

Whats your take about who the the Great Babylon spoken of in Revelations is referring too: And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all. And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee; and the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived. And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth. (Revelation 18:21-24) The destruction of this country will be so severe that it will be uninhabitable. Not even the light of one lamp will be found in this place. For in one day it will be reduced to rubble.

It amazes me how the news likes to put a spin on things. Even Foxnews falls for this kind of spin from time to time. Out of all the 1000's of illegals that come across the US border to steal, murder, and rape innocent Americans daily. The news only wants to focus on a single mistake border patrol agents may have caused in the course of thier duties of protecting our borders from these thugs and criminals. When will the news began showing the innocent people murdered by the mexican drug cartel and human smugglers crossing our borders with drugs and weapons. Give the border patrols a break.

No one is saying we shouldn't support Jewish Christians, in fact we should support all believers. They are our family, in Christ. Well the jewish Christians will tell you to stop persecuting their brethren according to the flesh....just as Paul did in chapters 9 through 11 of Romans. Just as Jesus did in Matthew 25:31-46. Just as the Prophet Joel did in chapter 1:1-3 I could go on.... See you assume I am persecuting Jews because I disagree implementing Judaism in our Church. I told you I support Israel but I don't believe Judaism is to be implemented in our Churches. We are to follow Christ not a religion that denies Christ. Paul addressed these issues multiply times though out the bible, but your determined in paint any church that doesn't follow Torah Observations Customs and Rituals as anti-Jew. Read Romans 10

Its the other way around read what Paul wrote in the same chapter Romans 11: Rom 11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled in order that they might fall? Far be the thought: but by their fall there is salvation to the nations to provoke them to jealousy.

No one is saying we shouldn't support Jewish Christians, in fact we should support all believers. They are our family, in Christ.

And if you take away all those things you mentioned above, what of his ethnicity remains? If a Muslim comes to Christ are they still Muslim? And is it ok for them to continue to practice Islam if they are born again? Being Jew is linked more to the religion of Judaism then it does their ethnicity. That's why Jews say when a Jew confesses Christ they are no longer Jew. I personally disagree with that becuase I think one becomes a true Jew when they are born again and not based on who your natural parents are but who your spiritual parents are. Yes Jews who believe are the natural branches but Jew's who don't believe are not apart of the Olivie Tree or Vine. When someone is born again they are not joined with those who do not believe (Judaism). They are joined with those who believe both Jew and Gentile Christians. The Olive tree is not Israel or Jews. The Olive Tree represents Gods Kingdom in which Jews were naturally apart of but taken away from because they did not believe in Christ, but not all Jews. A small remnant were faithful and believed in Christ. Christ ordered them to take the Gospel to the nations. Now believers from all over the world have been grafted in to the Olive tree/Kingdom both Jewish Christians and Gentile Christians together making up the branches of this Olive Tree/ God's Kingdom. Mat 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.