Jedi4Yahweh

Yeah "Repentance and Confession" are few of the topics less preached in most churches. I am not speaking in the Catholics way of practice, where they tell some unknown man behind a little window of what they did last night and in turn say some unbibical "Hail Mary's". I am talking about true confession. True repentance begins with confession, not only to God but to others you have sinned against. For instance if your sin was cheating on your wife but you never told your wife about it. If you truely repented and confessed your sins then you should tell your wife about your sin and ask for her forgiveness regardless of the out come. If you have knowledge that you stole something from someone then confession would be admitting what you did and returning it regardless of the out come. Yeah repentance and confessing sins is no easy street if its true repentance and confession. Yeah repentance is much more then saying I am sorry and keep going the same direction, but turning from it and reversing the situation. Repentance is not a feeling but an action and like others have said repentance and confession is not a one time deal.

Zotah, That was a good explaination. Another explaination of how God can be in both Heaven and on Earth at the same time is the fact that God is omnipresent. God is not limited to one place. He can be in Heaven, Earth and any other place becuase his Spirit is not confined to one place. Example: Joh 3:13 And no man hath ascended to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man who is in heaven. How do you explain what Jesus said that he was both in Heaven and on Earth at the same time. Jesus is ominpresent even while he was on earth in his mortal body.

So who actually raised Jesus from the grave? Well, some scriptures say the Father, other scriptures say Jesus resurrected himself, then there are other scriptures that say the Holy Spirit did. So either they all are the same person or the bible is contradicting itself. Jesus: Joh 10:17-18 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I may take it again. (18) No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received from my Father. Joh 2:19 Jesus answered them, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." Holy Spirit: Rom 8:11 If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you. Father: Gal 1:1 ... but through Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised Him from the dead, : So we must conclude that the Father, Holy Spirit, and Jesus are the same person or the Bible is contradicting itself. If you don't believe that Jesus and the Father are one then you really don't have a fundamental grasp of who Jesus is. Jesus declared this many times in the bible yet people still refuse to believe. To believe that God is three persons or people is same as saying there are three gods no way around it or to say that God is one possessed with three persons is also just as crazy and unbibical. We are made in the image and likeness of God. Did God make us three persons as well? No God made us Spirit, Soul and Body = 1 whole person, like himself.

Well that's only partially true. Remember not everone that claims to be a christian will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. There are many that call themselves christians but yet chose to live a life of sin and rebellion their end will be much worse then unbelievers that never knew Christ. 2Pe 2:20-22 For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. (21) For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. (22) What the true proverb says has happened to them: "The dog returns to its own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire."

Hi. Hell is mentioned in many dozens of Scriptures throughout the Bible, in fact there are five departments in the underworld of departed Spirits, and not one of these places is associated with or is the grave where bodies are buried. These five departments are; One). Paradise; In Luke 16:19-31; 23:43, we have pictured total comfort and water in this prison because the rich man saw Lazarus afar off in comfort and bliss and asked him to dip his finger in water and cool his tongue (Luke 16:19-31). This was the abode of the righteous souls from Adam after dying and leaving their bodies, being held captive by the devil against their wills till Christ's death and resurrection (Heb. 2:14-15; Eph. 4:7-11). Before Jesus Christ conqured the power of death and Hell, the devil had these powers. (Col. 2:14-17; Heb. 2:14-15; Rev. 1:18). It was into this prison the repentant thief went with Christ the day they both died (Luke 23:43). This prison is located in the heart of the Earth as is clear from Matt. 12:40 and Eph. 4:7-11. Jesus not only went into this prison but He also went into another prison, "Tartarus," and preached to the fallen angels being held there in their own special prison. Jesus having conqured Hell and death and the grave during His crucifiction and during the three days He was in the underworld, He captured all the righteous souls that were in Paradise and took them to Heaven when He ascended on high (Eph. 4:7-11). Jesus now has the keys to Hell and death (Rev. 1:18). Two). Tartarus; This prison is the special prison for the fallen angels that sinned both before and after the flood. There is nothing recorded in Scripture that teaches demons or human beings ever go into this prison. In these passages it is clear that there is a real Hell that is not the grave and that Spirit beings are confined in chains until judgment (1 Pet. 3:19; 2 Pet. 2:4; Jude 6-7). Three). Hell itself; (Matt. 16:18; Luke 16:19-31). This is the torment part in the unseen world and was, still is, and will yet be the abode of all the wicked souls and spirits of men from Able to the end of the Millennium. Then, at this time all the wicked will be liberated out of this prison and will be given their own immortal bodies and be judged before being cast into the "lake of fire" forever (Rev. 20:11-15; 21:8). Four). The Bottomless Pit or Abyss is the abode or prison of demons and certain angelic beings. No human being is ever thrown into the abyss. It is a very deep chasm in the lower parts of the Earth. It is translated "deep" (Luke 8:26-31; Romans 10:7) and "Bottomless Pit" in Rev. 9:1-3, 11; 11:7; 17:8; 20:1-10). All these Scriptures prove that there are prisons in the lower parts of the Earth for departed sinning spirits, and they are not and could never be the same as a grave on the surface of the Earth. And Five). The Lake of Fire, is the eternal Hell and perdition of wicked men, demons, fallen angels, and all rebellious creatures of all ages who have ever rebelled against God, and who have refused to repent when they could have. It is called "The Gehenna of Fire" and is always translated Hell (Matt. 5:22, 29, 30; 10:28; 18:9; 23:15, 33; Mark 9:43-45, 47; Luke 12:5; James 3:6). This prison is also called "the second death, which is the lake of fire" (Rev. 2:11; 20:6, 14). This final Hell was prepared for the devil and all his angels (Matt. 25:41-46), and for all other rebells, and it is ETERNAL in duration (Rev. 14:9-14; 20:10-15; Isa. 66:22-24; Matt. 25:46). There is no record in Scripture of anyone being the lake of fire at present. Scripture does show that the beast and the false prophet will be the first to be cast into it. This will happen before the Millennium (Rev. 19:20). They will still be there 1,000 years later when the devil and all other rebells will be cast into it (Rev. 20:10-15). Scripture shows that there will be degrees of punishment in Hell as far as remorse and torment of the conscience is concerned (Matt. 10:15; 11:22; 12:41; 23:14; Mark 6:11; 12:40; Luke 10:14; 11:31, 32; 20:47). These degrees of punishment will be because of the kind of sins comitted by one that were not comitted by another. No man will be punished or could have remorse over something he did not do. They will all regret rebelling against God and man and failing to believe in Jesus, and repenting of sin. Haz. wow...good info. I think its important understand and learn about Hell. Jesus talked and taught a lot about Hell as much as he spoke of Heaven. If you are to warn people of this place if would be important that you have a good understand of what Hell is.

Yeah, I understand what you are saying. I understand that your not trying to rewrite the bible just trying to understand it a little better. Just like some people take 1Cor 13 chapter and replace the word Love with God because God is love to help them understand that Chapter a little better. You have to watch how you word things on here because some people will want to beat you to death with their bible thinking they are doing God some kind of service.

Jesus has a Spirit. When Jesus died on the cross the bible says that he gave up his Spirit. This Spirit is the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Christ as Paul stated in the bible. God is not three different people but one person who has a spirit, soul and body just as he created man in his image and likeness. The spirit that dwelled in Christ is also the Father. Jesus said that his father dwells in him and he in the Father. Meaning he and the father are the same person. To say that God is three different persons/people is to say that there are 3 gods which is completely false and contradicts that bible. When we pray to Jesus you are praying to Holy Spirit and the Father as well and vise versa. All three make up one person just as my spirit, soul, and body make up one person. Yes, they are distinctly differant but never the less they co-exist to make up one whole person. This three person in one is false misconception. God does not have multiply personality disorder. God is one person not three persons.

The way I understand the trinity of God is in Gen. where God said he made man in his own image and likeness. Man is made like God and has three different areas like God: Spirit, Soul, and Body. God has a spirit called the Holy Spirit, he as body called the Son of God, and he has a Soul called the Father. When we pray to God we are not praying to three persons but one. Yashua said, he and the Father are one and the same. If you have seen him you have seen the Father. Yashua and the father are not two different people nor is his Spirit a different person; they are all one person. Just as your spirit, soul, and body are one person. They have different purposes but they are still one person. When you pray to the Holy Spirit your pray to both Yashua and the Father as well for they are the same person. Isa 42:1 Behold my servant (Yashua/Son), whom I uphold; my elect, in whom my soul (Father) delighteth; I have put my spirit (Holy Spirit) upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

Saying I am sorry is not an issue. The problem is your laying blame on the entire body of Christ for something most Christians are not guilty of. To me this is a complete disrepect for the true body of Christ. I am sure many in the Anti-Christian world love for all Christians bow down to them and admit we are the source of the worlds problems and evils, but it isn't true. I love and respect the body of Christ and will not allow people to cast false accusations and blame upon them as whole. Much of the Persecution of Jews through out history was done by the Roman Empire. The Roman Catholic Church was very much involved with persecuting Jews. The Roman Catholic Church persecuted and killed true Christians as well. Read Fox's book of martyrs. The RCC does not represent the Christianity or the Church of God.

Christians are the biggest supporters and friends of Jews and their right to the Land of Israel. in fact they maybe the only supporters and friends they have. I don't know what else your wanting Christians to do. Sounds like you want them to have a "foot washing", but the truth is Christians are washing their feet in their support, love, and friendship. Why do you keep slapping them in the face and demanding more. Christians are consistently reaching out to Jews but I don't see any Jews reaching back.

Are you carrying old wounds from what the Jews did to any Christians past or present? No - but if you ever you find yourself interacting with a Jew, and especially if you are wanting to witness to a Jew, a humble apology in the name of all who were or called themselves Christians to the one you are talking with would be a good idea. There's a better chance of this breaking through their pain and hardness and blindness than anything else. While you are at it, the next time you witness to a black person, be sure to apologize for your ancestors having slaves. There is a better change of this breaking through their pain, hardness and blindness than anything else. Better yet, everybody is a victim of something or someone so lets all get a blame it on the body of Christ mentality.

No I am just making a point. We should all learn to forgive and forget. Yahshua taught us that being persecuted for his name sake is a blessing and not a curse. If I felt that was an issue that was holding them back from believing, then I would educate them that not everyone who claims to be Christian is. I would show them what God teaches us about what a true Christian is and how it is impossible to be Christian and have hatred and resentment toward others. I would show them how the Church is made up of Jews and Non-Jews and how Christ has reconciled us together as one in him the seed of Abraham.

And by the way - What did Jesus tell us to do about our enemies and persecuters? Would Jesus have you demand an apology from them? I simiply stated that if you want to bring up old wounds why not bring up old wounds from both sides. You have demanded an apology from All Christians even those that had nothing to do with Jews. What do you tell a new born Christian? Do you demand they go apologize for something that had nothing do with? What do you tell a Korean Christian? Do you demand they apologize to Jews whom they never knew? Do you see how rediculas this blame all Christians thing is. Christianity is not something are we born by flesh into and its not a generational thing passed down from from our fathers. Its an individual choice to follow Christ. Just because some individual or group decides to do something stupid does mean all Christians are guilty of it. Neither do I blame all Jews for persecuting Christians. That would be rediculas because many of them are Christian.

I got a better idea, how about they both serve each other and acknowledge each others wrong doings. Jews admitting their wrong and persecution of Christians and Chrstians admitting their wrong doing of Jews. Even in Israel today, if a Jew turns to Christ he is considered an outcast and cut-off from Isreal. You can be a Jew and be a Atheist, Homosexual, Murderer, and do all manner of evil and still be considered a Jew but once you confess Yahshua as Messiah they are cut-off from their people and are no longer consider to be a Jew. They are considered as "gentile dogs" in the eyes of most Jews. Much of the ideology has crept into many Messianic circles. They don't want to be identified with other gentile Christians. They hold on to this false teaching that salvation can be obtained by being a Jew even with out following Christ. They look at gentile Christians as degenerates who ripped off their religion. They hold to this false doctrine that the Church is only for Gentiles and teach that Jews who are Christians must continue to follow Judaism. When will they acknowlege their mistreatment of Christians?

Jedi - Jesus redeemed the world by standing in the place of the sinners. The only way the Church can heal the wounds inflicted on the Jews by "Christians" or people "claiming to be Christians" is to likewise stand in the place of the sinners. Please forgive me but that makes not sence at all to me. Your going to have to explain yourself. I hope this is not about what I think this is about.

You made the point that you have an ungodly dose of resentment toward Christians. Why do you bother being a Christian if you have so much hatred toward them?

So either we have to swallow our pride and admit that, Yes real Christians were involved, OR we have admit that we are using as the basis for theology, the writings of unsaved men. You can not lay that blame on all Christians as perscutors and tortures of Jews. Yes there may have been those that claimed to be Christian and persecuted Jews. I don't doubt that at all, but to cast blame on the whole body of Christ is ignorant and dangerous especially for those who profess to be of the body of Christ. So know your trying to justify persecution of Christians. The leaders are the representation of the people under them. The problem is this, your lumping all Christians into this false guilt trip of torturing and persecuting Jews. Which is an insult to all believers. Most Christians are not anti-Semitic, and of those who claim to be I really question their Salvation. Yes they may claim to be Christians but that does not mean its so. read up on the Wheat and Tares parable. Most Christians I know love and support Israel, infact Christians are the biggest supporters of Israel, but love and supporting Israel does not mean I have to be over obsessed with their culture and tradition and treat them with a higher degree then my brothers and sisters in Christ. I pray for them often even as I pray for other lost nations of the world to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth. Jews without faith in Christ are lost as any other person and an unsaved Gentile is just as important to God as any unsaved Jew. God's heart and will is to seek and save all that are lost and not just Jews.

I am not much of an historian, but I do know that much of known history is written by those who hate Jews and Christians alike. So I view history in light of this. Also, there has been alot of wrong done in history by those who claim they are "Christian" but that does not mean they are. Example the Roman Catholic Church who ordered Jews and Christians to be killed. Anyone who hates another person is not a servant of Christ. Just to turn the tables for a second. Jews are guilty of persecution as well. They have along recorded history of this. The bible says they are the ones who killed the prophets and demanded the death of Christ. The early church is marred by Jews who persecuted Christians. The book of Acts testifies to this. Paul himself said he persecuted the Church and ordered many to be dragged away and killed prior to his faith in Christ. Mat 23:37 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to it! How often would I have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you would not! What good does it to blame each other and wallow in such peity and negativity. We cant change history. What we as believers should be focusing on what is good and what we have in common not what separates and divides us. Yahshua is the factor that binds all believers together and it doesn't matter if you Jew, Arab, Russian, European, Mexican, or Eskimo.

For the most part, I agree. I beleive there were millions of believeing Jews during those days and I am sure today that number is still very high and growing. God has always had a faithful remiant of Jews. The day of Penticost sparked a huge revival directly in Jerusalem. The bible speaks of thousands coming to Christ each day in Jerusalem, but for the most part Israel still remains blind to truth about the true Messiah...but one day that vail will be taken away. I dont think their blindness is due to european influence.

I agree...and thanks for the reality check. All this debate about race, what color was Yahshua, what color are Jews. Who cares and what does it really matter in light of the work of Christ. Much of this talk leads to doctrines of racism and division. Christ died for all and his work transcends race and skin color. We were all cursed with the wages of sin no matter what skin color or where your from. We should think in terms of what we all have in common.

Exactly! The Church fathers are the Apostles who are Jews and Christ being the head of this chruch...."All are Jews". The Church is founded by Jews who believe. Jews are the first fruits of this new covenant and later the gentiles. The Church is not divided between Jew and Gentile but one in the same and Christ is the head of the Church. God has brougth us together in union with Christ. The blessings of Abraham and the New Covenant are for all those who believe and who put their trust in the seed of Abraham. God has torn down the wall of divison that once existed under the Old Covenant. The same can be said for Gentiles. We are no different from they as far as salvation - and rejection - goes. True...not all Gentiles believe and not all Jews believe. Spiritually God has made us the same and thats all that matters.

Ok great. Advantages over who? and What advantages are there if you deny Christ? Please list them.... I never denied that God will restore Israel in the Last days, but it will be under the New Covenant and not the Old Covenant. God is not going to restore animal sacrifices and Mosaic Law. If that is what your thinking. Yes, the New Covenant was for Israel but not many received it. Only a small portions out of all Israel choose to follow and believe in the New Covenant which is was in Christ their Messiah. Many were called but only few chose to follow, but his was part of Gods ultimate plan to take salvation to the world. Yes we have been joined with Israel who believe, into the New Covenant. We are not joined with those who deny the one who offered the new covenant. A covenant is an agreement between two or more parties both sides must agree to it.

I didn't say the Kingdom of God is separate from Israel. Believing Israel is very much apart of this Kingdom. The foundation of the Church is built upon the Apostles who are Jews. Yahshua himself being the chief cornerstone who is a Jew. All believing Jews are apart of the Kingdom of God. On the other hand unbelieving Jews are not apart of this Kingdom, not to say they cant . Jesus told Jews unless you repent and believe your will not enter the Kingdom of God. They are the branches which were broken off. The Kingdom of God was taken from the them as the scriptures tell us. How can the Olive tree be the nation of Israel if they were broken off from it referring to those that dint have faith in Christ. Mat 21:42-43 Jesus said to them, "Have you never read in the Scriptures: "'The stone that the builders rejected has become the cornerstone; this was the Lord's doing, and it is marvelous in our eyes'? (43) Therefore I tell you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people producing its fruits. No one is born into the Kingdom of God by flesh but by the faith of Abraham. Not all Jews were true Jews. Being a descendant of Abraham does not make you a Child of God. Israel is referring to believing Jews. The gospel was first preached to them. They are the first born of the Kingdom of God, but not all Jews believed. So you can not make blanket statements and say that we are together with unbelievers and those who deny Christ. We are heirs together with believing Israel who follow and believe in Christ I have made the connection your just not seeing it. Israeli believers and Gentile believers are bothers and sisters in Christ. We don't boast ourselves above or better then each other because we are equal in God. God has called us into one body, one Spirit, one church in Christ. There is not division between nationality or race in Christ we are one in him. God's ultimate plan was to save all who believe including Israel and beginning with Israel. I have much respect and love for Israel and pray for them often. BTW: I never questioned your salvation and neither should you question mine.

You made some valid points. Question: Why would Paul tell them to gather their offering on the first day and not the second, third and so forth. It seems that the first day was when they assembled as a whole and brought their offerings (charity). This seems to be inline with their gathering together on the 1st day for fellowship and worship. I understand this section 'that there be no gathering when I come', to mean gathering of offerings not assembly. Basicly what he means was, set aside your offerings on the 1st day of each week, so that when he comes they dont have to worry about collecting chairty and rasing money at that time because it will be already in storage waiting, so that Paul could focus on other issues such as the preaching of the word and fellowship. In my logic. it seems that the best time to take up offering would be when everyone was assembled (1st day of each week).