felix

Hello, Just a question...are you with a church now? What church or churchs have you attended? Yes, I am with a chruch. I have been christain since that time. I have studied the word, and now I teach it. (I go to a pentcostal holiness church, and Church of Gods) Really my concern about this dream is something that is written in the bible. The bible says somewhere in there that Dreams do not really mean anything, or should not be taken litterlly. I think that does not mean everydream, but I was wondering what others thought about it. I have read that dreams should not be used to interupt anything ect. I know also though, the bible says in the end times people will have dreams and visions that do have real meanings. IS there a safe and christian dream study anywhere? I am not going to look into dreams until I know for sure, they can be used as real information for our lives now. Hello sister, I hope my question didn't lead you the wrong way. Dreams can be interpreted by the members of the Body. The Lord speaks to us through these. I think the Lord was speaking to you through this. I had an impression of your dream when I first read it which led me to my question... The house you lived in at the time was built by your father which therefore you felt was very grand. There is a building which our Father in heaven is building and it will be the most grandiose building ever built. You were surprised to see someone who was not your physical dad on the tractor; it was Jesus. The grand home was under Jesus's headship, not man's. The Lord is building up the Body of Christ now. The Church(assembly of the called out ones; gathering together of the believers) is the Body of Christ so that is how Jesus is manifested. When it was spoken "you do not have to be scared of me" the "me" should be the Church -body of Christ. And when it was spoken "this is not how I look" refering to the image of the man on the tractor...the Lord cannot show you Himself but He is manifested through us the Church. So that's why I asked which local churches you go to or who you gather with.

Hello, May God lead you to have this person bear fruit. It is possible for Christian to bear no fruit. A fruit tree requires soil, water, and sun light to grow and eventually bear fruit. This person has soil but is not getting water and sunlight. The soil is the physical things like the bible, sunday service, and church meetings she attends. She has been planted in the Body of Christ like being planted in soil. But she is only receiving the spiritual things (the Word, messages, etc.) with her mind and not through the spirit. She is occupied with her own concepts and philisophies. She is not getting water -the Spirit- who can show truly teach her the spiritual things of God. There is also a lot of things that is not being exposed that makes her bitter and angry; lack of sunlight. The following is a dialogue between Sadhu Singh and a seeker. You should try to share this message with this person! You can build up the Body by sheparding this person and leading her to bear fruit.

Hello, Just a question...are you with a church now? What church or churchs have you attended?

PS 103:12 As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us. IS 43:25 I, even I, am he that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins. It is a sin to ask for forgivines and not belive that HE IS ABLE TO DO IT.HEB 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. Walk by faith even faith that you are forgiven not only for what you have done but for the things you will do till you meet Him. It is all covered by His blood. Love,Suzana So do I understand that you are saying God knows we are going to commit a sin so it is okay to commit sins we know are sins?

This was exactly my question. It answers it directly. Others here had the same answer to this question of whether only the physical aspects of yoga can be isolated. I guess it seems that you can't; that the physical aspect of yoga is intertwined with the spiritual aspect as well.

Sorry...got off track with the "flesh" (sarx) is the body argument and people assuming that I was promoting the Dualism or Gnostic doctrine.... They have all kinds of gizmos now. like MIR scanners CT scanners and endoscopic cameras ultra-sound and x-rays etc, to see the ailments of the body. Why would a christian want to sit cross legged on the floor and go into a trance. when they can cast all their burdens on to Jesus in prayer? Doesn't make sense to me. Sounds a bit like yin and yang. I agree. The reason this was brought to my attention was because of my experience with seeing auras. I had read somewhere that infections are typified by orange with yellow specks which suddenly hit me that what I had known as an infection was indeed that color. The question about seeing auras altogether is another thing I wrote here long ago. As a child I was exposed to qigong, my parents are from Taiwan. I saw this being used in many things like acupuncture and things like that. As a child I had tried practicing qigong with dangerous and bad results. But I have always been keenly interested in healing the body and having a healthy body through natural means. I largely prefer natural remedies over pharmaceutical and over-the-counter drugs. This is one reason I was particularly annoyed when people started to think I believed in Dualism which views all created things as evil: body and all other matter. If I believed in Dualism, I would not be drinking water from our $1k water puriferier at home, taking vitamins, anti-oxidants, or exercising. I am a naturalist and don't believe people should rely on medication (this is my opinion but I know it can't always be the case). I believe largely that eating an organic diet, exercising regularly, and healthy habits can lead to a healthy body void of medicinal drugs. This is why I commented here about Christianity and Yoga. Things like yoga and tai chi are great for the body but would involve some spiritual things apart from the Holy Spirit. I am still not sure about these things.

sorry on how terse and blatant this is but... I know that. I never implied anything contrary. I know that. I never implied anything contrary. This is the reason I am very annoyed. Please read carefully what I am saying. *sigh* Tess... You did not get the analogy. Please read it again. Here is another analogy. A piece of fabric is made with 50% cotton and 50% polyester. Let's say that the cotton is the body and the polyester is sin. So the fabric is what is called the flesh. Do you get what I mean yet???? The salt can be likened to our body and the pepper can be likened to sin in the analogy. This body-and-sin is likened to the "flesh" (sarx). I never implied what you are saying. Such a view is immature. This is what I am saying is immature. Your concepts and views...when one says that the body is "flesh" and you get this notion that what this means is that the body itself is sinful. When I said this (and when the bible is refering to this) it does not mean Flesh = body = sin nature or Body = sin nature = flesh. That's what I've been trying to explain this whole time. Read what is written more carefully.

Do you people not see the point or are you all blind? Let me show you how inane this argument on the flesh is. First of all, if you havent gotten the hint yet.. YES...I DO KNOW THE FLESH IS REFERING TO THE SIN NATURE!!! Please read and reread and reread my analogy. Ephesians 5:29 29For no man ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and carefully protects and cherishes it, as Christ does the church, The word "flesh" here is the same "flesh" we are refering to in romans 8 (sarx). I can't believe this is happening.... The word "flesh" (sarx) in the bible.... Acts 2:26 26Therefore my heart rejoiced and my tongue exulted exceedingly; moreover, my flesh also will dwell in hope [will encamp, pitch its tent, and dwell in hope in anticipation of the resurrection]. Acts 2:31 31He, foreseeing this, spoke [by foreknowledge] of the resurrection of the Christ (the Messiah) that He was not deserted [in death] and left in Hades (the state of departed spirits), nor did His body know decay or see destruction.(A) 2 Corinthians 7 1THEREFORE, SINCE these [great] promises are ours, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from everything that contaminates and defiles body and spirit, and bring [our] consecration to completeness in the [reverential] fear of God. Ephesians 2:15 15By abolishing in His [own crucified] flesh the enmity [caused by] the Law with its decrees and ordinances [which He annulled]; that He from the two might create in Himself one new man [one new quality of humanity out of the two], so making peace. Colossians 2:5 5For though I am away from you in body, yet I am with you in spirit, delighted at the sight of your [standing shoulder to shoulder in such] orderly array and the firmness and the solid front and steadfastness of your faith in Christ [that [a]leaning of the entire human personality on Him in absolute trust and confidence in His power, wisdom, and goodness]. Every single bolded word here is the same "flesh" as that in romans 8 namely "sarx". Let me repeat that...Every bolded word here is "sarx". So why did I say this was inane??? Because it is. If you want to argue that this is dualism then this should be done else where in doctrine. I don't know how much clearer I can get.

I never said it did. Felix clearly equated "flesh" with "body" and also placed emphasis on the "spirit" over the body. This is what I was addressing because in doing so he/she is advocating misplaced metaphysical dualism. My post that you quoted was brief, I certainly didn't address every passage that contains the english word "flesh". My point was to show (as you imply, and I agree) that each verse should be interpreted in it's context to determine it's intent. I didn't have time to cover every single verse that uses the word "flesh", so I just gave a couple of examples as to why we can't interpret it the way felix is trying to interpret it. I think you and I are on the same page, just wording it differently. You're completely missing the point. You say you're not concerned about the most important part. "Sarx" doesn't necessarily mean the literal human body. In fact, you even state that you're aware that in this context this isn't what Paul is referring to but you want to ignore it. If you ignore the context you lose the meaning. The Greeks would've used this word (sarx) to refer to physical acts (such as eating or sex), and the Hebrew concept of the word "flesh" would've encompassed humanity in general, specifically our weaknesses (in many contexts it referred to our sinfulness). A Greek philosopher that Paul would've been highly familiar with, Plato, taught his students to value what is "eternal" and "spiritual" only and that the goal of life was to rise above our bodies (and it's "desires"). While this may seem biblical on the surface, it closely resembles gnosticism (a religious group that the early church fought bitterly), and Paul rejected it vehemently. In one of his warnings against such philosophies (found in Colossians 2), he describes them, "Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day-- things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ. Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on visions he has seen, inflated without cause by his fleshly mind, and not holding fast to the head, from whom the entire body, being supplied and held together by the joints and ligaments, grows with a growth which is from God. If you have died with Christ to the elementary principles of the world, why, as if you were living in the world, do you submit yourself to decrees, such as, "Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!" (which all refer to things destined to perish with use)--in accordance with the commandments and teachings of men? These are matters which have, to be sure, the appearance of wisdom in self-made religion and self-abasement and severe treatment of the body, but are of no value against fleshly indulgence." (Col 2:16-23) Paul is specifically warning them against being duped by these philosophies (such as platoism and gnosticism) which advocated acts of piety and self-imposed regulations in order to make them more righteous. Paul didn't teach that the flesh/physical was evil...in fact he taught that all things visible and invisible were created by God in Col.1:16. Okay, let's look at the verses you're using: First, Romans 7:23: "...but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members." You imply that this means the body is bad and the spirit is better. This is absolutely incorrect. In fact, this verse supports what AK and myself have been saying. The "law" Paul is referring to in the members of the body is the ethical, sinful nature not the physical body itself. You have to make the distinction between ontological and ethical in order to understand the meaning. God created our physical bodies, they are not evil in and of themselves, they are just unredeemed. In the very next verse, Paul reminds us that in Christ we'll receive our glorified bodies. Next, let's look at Romans 8:8-13: "If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you. So then, brethren, we are under obligation, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh-- for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live." How in the world do you take this to mean our spirit should be elevated above our bodies? If you would read the entirety of chapter 8 (and Romans 12:1-2), you'll understand that Paul is teaching that our bodies should be used to glorify God, he is not teaching that our spirit is more important than our bodies. Have you read 1 Corinthians 6:12-20? This is why historical context and understanding the philosophies present during this time is so important to grasping what Paul is teaching. Gnostics were prevalent in Corinth, they would've believed that the body was unimportant, and sought to experience a more "spiritual" state. But Paul often emphasizes the importance of the physical body and using it for the glory of the Lord, while also warning against the fallen/sinful nature that lives in rebellion against God. I'm not making assumptions. You specifically stated in post #22 "Our physical body IS the "flesh" and our spirit SHOULD (or IS) above our flesh." I believe I just explained the dualism I was talking about earlier and why your quote concerned me. We cannot elevate one element of creation (in this case the spirit) over another (the body), they are on equal levels. Both were created by God (and inherently good), and both were affected by the fall (thus needing redeemed). Unfortunately, this imbalance crept into Christianity early on (thanks to people like Thomas Aquinas and Augustine), who unknowingly perpetuated this divide. This is where the Catholic church got the idea that being Monks, Priests or Nuns was a more desirable spiritual persuit than any other vocation. This is why celibacy is considered more "holy" than marriage, and poverty is admired over possessions. It all goes back to this view that what is physical is less important than what is "spiritual". In a more broad sense, I believe this is also why Western Christians (as a whole) are sometimes less concerned with social justice (feeding the hungry, helping the poor, funding cures for diseases, medical missions) because these are not considered "spiritual" needs. We tend to me more focused on things like evangelism or matters of the soul/spirit, and often neglect a person's physical needs (considering them less important). On a similar note, I also believe this misplaced metaphysical dualism has led to the ethical demise of our culture. Christians abandoned vocations that seemed "worldy" (i.e. law, politics, medicine, science, art) in order to pursue more "spiritual" vocations...which left our secular culture to itself, making the modern philosophies even more prevalent in those vocations where Christians became less prominent. I hope this explains my initial posts more thoroughly. This is very immature. Again...you are making very big assumptions on me. How can you get ALL of this from ONE question and TWO statements?? Namely..."Why would you say this? Our physical body IS the "flesh" and our spirit SHOULD (or IS) above our flesh." Just because someone with the dualism doctrine quotes these verses to support their stance does not mean that when someone else quotes these verses that they are supporting the same thing. Do you get the idea?? Because...I have NO IDEA WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT. I am simply QUOTING SCRIPTURE and I would like you to explain what you said in light of these SCRIPTURES. I'll be honest...I'm pretty annoyed. #1) Tess, you responded to the following quote... "It sounds like reducing and ultimately removing the motivations of the flesh in for the sake of the spirit." motivations of the flesh with your reply "Now if this is the focus, I would completely disagree with it. Our phyical body should not be equated with "flesh", and our spirit should not be elevated above it." You are disagreing with "motivations of the flesh" in for the sake of the spirit. Romans 8 says otherwise. That's pretty much the crux of this whole thing. #2) First of all, the word "flesh" (sarx) is literally (by denotation) the human body. By saying that the "flesh" is the human body does not mean that the body itself is bad in the way you and AK are conveying. How immature is that? For Romans 8:13 says "For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live." Do we see the correlation here: flesh and the body? Take the following illustration: "salt-and-pepper", "peanut butter-and-jelly", can be treated as a singular item in english grammer (learned that in rhetoric 306). But they are made up of two things. It is not wrong to say that "salt-and-pepper" is salty...because IT IS! It is not wrong to say that "salt-and-pepper" is pepper(y) either...because it is!! And it is not wrong to say that "salt-and-pepper" are two things...because it is!! And finally it is not wrong to say "salt-and-pepper" is one thing...because it's also true by convention!!!!! You see...our body is woven with sin nature..the flesh. Salt-and-pepper is to body-and-sin (flesh). I hope that makes it more clear. If you had somehow thought that when I said that "flesh" is refering to our body and therefore I shouldn't exercise, take vitamins, or take care of my body then that's pretty misguided. #3) Tess says "You[Felix] imply that this means the body is bad and the spirit is better." I am??? I'm not sure of the way you are implying this. Depends on what you mean by "better". Hope the following makes it clear to you...this is what I "imply"... Felix's implication: The body and spirit are part of the same person. Just like my fingers and my eyes are part of the same body. Would I ever say to my eyes, "Eyes...you are better than my fingers." and go grab a knife to cut off my fingers because my "eyes are better"? No, that's absurd. It's simply that the eyes have a greater function and needs more care than the finger (ie you can touch dirty stuff with your fingers but not with your eyes)...a person would not say that the eye or finger is better. #4) Tess says "How in the world do you take this to mean our spirit should be elevated above our bodies? " Again...I dont know what you are implying by the word "elevated". BTW what I said here... That "Why?" I am asking is not refering to the "our spirit should not be elevated above it"...it is refering to why it is "the part of concern". We do not elevate a part of your body above another as if it is better. One does not naturally do that. There is only a difference of exercise (functioning)...for instance you do not do aerobic exercise with your eyes by moving it around a lot. This would strain your eyes...you do aerobics exercise with your legs for instance by running. Our spirit needs to be the one that we function in...the flesh should not be the one that we function in. Finally, it's pretty inane to argue that "flesh" (sarx) does not denote flesh, whether of men, beasts, fish, or birds: the human body (Acts 2:26, 31; 2 Cor 7:1; Eph2:15, 5:29; Col 2:5). If you somehow still get that I support the dualism doctrine(haven't read about it yet) from me saying "Our physical body IS the "flesh" and our spirit SHOULD (or IS) above our flesh." my reference to Romans 8 then I'm not sure about you. I think it's just a bunch of semantics concering what words we use. If you really want to know what I wanted to convey then just take my statement here "Our physical body IS the "flesh" and our spirit SHOULD (or IS) above our flesh." and replace it with Romans 8:13. My concern was that by what you said people would not follow Romans 8: The charge to walk and live by the spirit and not by the flesh. This is abundant throughout the New Testament. I just picked out Romans 8 because it was easiest and I'm lazy so I didn't look up more scripture.

Tess, after considering what you said for some time, I believe you have encountered the practice of fasting and you are against it. Fasting is a powerful spiritual exercise. It does indeed strengthen you into your spirit. Jesus fasted, Moses fasted, under the old covenant fasting was done very often. Jesus said "And when you fast do not make it obvious...". Note it says "And When you fast" not "if you fast". So it's abundantly clear throughout scripture that the Lord is not against fasting. Fasting is a great thing to do to grow spiritually. God will not let you damage your physical body -His dwelling place- when you take on a fast. Normally I am led to fast and each time I have it has been a very powerful experience (though it does not necessarily always have to be...it's for the Lord's purpose and not ours). I am led to start and stop at the appointed time. The Lord will sustain me at the right time according to my needs. Many people do not know this cause they have never done it but fasting is absolutely great for your health. It purifies your body. I have fasted for 2-3 days with just water. After carefully breaking the fast my body actually feels stronger, my mood is better, my mind is more clear, and most of all I have gained something from the Lord. Fasting certainly is not evil. Men do not fast because they do not care about their physical body or because the spiritual body is greater. Rather men fast according to the leading of the Lord and when they need to deeply seek the Lord. It is a consecration and dedication to the Lord and involves a lot of fellowship with the Lord in prayer. We step out in faith knowing that man lives not on bread alone but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God. The fact is that the spirit is where the Lord is; we must walk and live by the spirit. This is where the law of spirit of life is. In our flesh the law of sin and death rules but the law of spirit overrules this one. In this way can we overcome the sin nature sown in our flesh by living and walking by the spirit. Ironic you about be concerned about health, the reason I asked my original question was because of that...I was interested in knowing about yoga because I have heard that they have the potential of healing the physical body [yoga, qigong, and seeing auras (to see ailments in the body)].

No no no no.....this is not a good interpretation. Look at the overall context. sarkos in these instances is definately refering to the ethical nature of man (which desires to rebel against God) and not to our physical bodies. If our physical bodies are lesser than our spirits, then there is no reason for God to place us in physical bodies. The word here Sarx is: flesh, whether of men, beasts, fish, or birds; the human body. I'm aware that the context here is also refering to the ethical nature. Yet this is not the part I'm really concerned with even though it is clear that the word flesh (sarx) is literally the human body. The part of concern is the latter part where it was said "our spirit should not be elevated above it". Why? Refer to the scriptures in Romans 8. Tess... You are making a lot of assumptions from nothing. Advocating dualism? I do not know what that is. The bible clearly tells us to walk not in the flesh but in the spirit. Please quote some scripture or at least explain what Romans 8 means...do not attack me. You are doing the following: Saying that I am doing this... Saying that Paul opposed this... Though you give no scripture to explain this. In short you are saying [~] is bad and the bible says [~] is bad though you do not offer scriptural support. And that I am trying to promote [~] which I do not know. The body of course is not evil in the sense that I would kill myself to free myself from sin and evil once and for all. That's absurd and that's not what I am indicating. I simply asked "Why would you say this?". The context of the word "flesh" is not really my question. Tess, you responded to "It sounds like reducing and ultimately removing the motivations of the flesh in for the sake of the spirit." with Explain this in light of Romans 8. Edit: I believe you have unknowingly explained this to me already by your previous post so I have responded to this. If this is not your explanation then please clarify this.

Based on the program I watched, the "Christian yoga" simply uses the physical techniques and disposes of the Hindu philosophy. Here's an article on the thing I saw on tv: Christian Yoga Again, I don't necessarily agree with calling it "Christian Yoga", unless it's just to explain the techniques. But from what I can tell (at least with this particular teacher), she recognizes the Hindu philosophy involved in the chanting, so she replaces this aspect with something biblical. Now if this is the focus, I would completely disagree with it. Our phyical body should not be equated with "flesh", and our spirit should not be elevated above it. Hello sister, I have to point out something here irrespective of yoga or any exericise or philisophy. You mention the following... Why would you say this? Our physical body IS the "flesh" and our spirit SHOULD (or IS) above our flesh. Romans 7:23 (Amplified Bible) 23But I discern in my bodily members [[d]in the sensitive appetites and wills of the flesh] a different law (rule of action) at war against the law of my mind (my reason) and making me a prisoner to the law of sin that dwells in my bodily organs [[e]in the sensitive appetites and wills of the flesh]. Romans 8:8-10,13 8So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. 9But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 10And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 13For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. Please do not take this as a personal attack or become defensive. It is just correction. I see that many people speak out against things that do not have much affect on the building of God yet the things that do are ignored or missed. This is one such example. Let us discern the false doctrines within the church more eagerly. These are the things that destroy. The Church is Satan's greatest enemy. Satan is not blatant in attacking the church through false doctrine but subtle. He does not come as a guy with a tail and a pitchfork...He comes appearing as an angel of light.

hello, This speaks to me...I have been wondering about this. To me I see Yoga as an exercise of body and mind. I believe that it's original intention was for this to be an exercise of the body and mind which eventual would create the gateway to the spirit. But my question is if it is limited to body and mind would it be okay? Also with things like chi-kung (qigong) and seeing auras. I have not actively taken part in these things but I would like to be clear on them.

Yes. We need the grace of God everyday for everything. Grace from God is the empowerment to do things we are not capable of doing by ourselves. This is so crucial to know...not just the grace that redeems us from sin. This is why we can receive mercy and timely help before the throne of Grace. Hebrews 4:16 Let us then approach the throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need. Hebrews 4:16 (Amplified bible) Let us then fearlessly and confidently and boldly draw near to the throne of grace (the throne of God's unmerited favor to us sinners), that we may receive mercy [for our failures] and find grace to help in good time for every need [appropriate help and well-timed help, coming just when we need it]. Many times I say things like "I need the grace of God for this [task]", "Pray that God may grace me", or "May God give you grace". And people look at me with blank faces... Most people do not think much more of grace outside of initial salvation. Most people do not think much more of being saved outside of their initial prayer to receive Christ. But we need to be saved every single day from our situations throughout the day! We need grace everyday..in all our struggles. This is cause for many Christians to backslide and fall...they do not call on the name of the Lord to be saved (romans 10:13). Brothers and sisters...why has this verse been limited only to man's initial salvation of receiving Christ into them? This verse should be applied everyday in all our situations. Just call on the Name of the Lord and you will be saved.

hello sister, You had shared this dream in http://www.worthyboards.com/index.php?showtopic=38193 I never mentioned how thankful I was for your reply. Also your interpretation of "Michael White" in the preceding dream was very exposing! I wanted to share somethings on your dream... You are sheparding people and seeking to feed the Lord's sheep who are hungry. This part is very important. You did not know whether he meant 3 corn cobs for 4 dollars or 3 dollars for 4 cobs. It is obvious that this was unclear. This is likened to speaking out against false doctrines in the ministries of pastors or christian leaders. The corn sale is a ministry which is suppose to feed the people of God. Yet you spot something wrong with this sale that many people do not see. Many people miss this settle error "3 for 4". But 3 cobs or 3 dollars? These are the false doctrines subtlely embedded in the ministry (ie prosperity gospel) of the leader that you are questioning or exposing. The man is insulted by your questioning him. What the man asks next is very revealing... He asked if it was because he was german. We can see that is entirely irrelevant. This is how they will defend themselves and attack you in presence of the people. This is very like an ad-hominem or an attack against the person and not the real issue at hand. I see this happen a lot to true servants of God who speak against the false doctrines in the churches. The pastor or leaders of these churches attack the person personally (ad-hominem). The leaders hope to spread false and evil things about them and make sure that their congregation believes the same. They try to humiliate and persecute the true servants of God; they want to strip them of everything they have but are not able to get to the hidden things. They try to make you upset. This is their true color...they want to provoke and instigate things in hopes to utterly destroy. These are not the servants of God who should be building up God's building! The ocean represents the troubles, sufferings and trials of the human life. The one's who were remaining in faith stayed afloat. This is much like when Peter walked on water as he kept his eyes on Jesus. When Peter took his eyes off of Jesus he began to sink. When we remain in faith we can stay afloat all our problems and trials in our life. You are delievered to a land...in contrast to the ocean which is the world, the land is the local church; the believers gathered together in the Name of the Lord. It is a haven from the things of this world; the arc that saves us from deaths waters. You all were naked...you all had nothing of the world that the corn salesman striped away but the hidden things which are the things of the Lord; the Word of the Lord in your hearts. The church does not need a gigantic multi-million church building or a powerful sound system for songs of praise. Though you lack these things you are still away from your enemy who are "adding building to building" in their already large church buildings. Small wolves were still around you guys...these are the other local churches around though the pastors or leaders of those churches are also "wolves in sheep's clothing" as well. Amen. There is much more after we are built up together in the body of Christ (the Church and the Arc). In the days of Noah, the flood was a great judgement. Yet we are safe from the judgement inside the Arc (the Church). This is happening right now. We are like the dove in the Arc that was sent to see if the waters had receded to reveal land. The dove finds no dry land and must return to the Arc. We know that though we are in the world we are not part of it. For now our rest is in the Church. But the day is coming when the waters will recede and a new earth will appear. Then we will find our true rest and home. One said, "I am Seth He said: I have a word from the Lord, what does it matter if I have no job"....our job is our livelyhood in this world. In some way or another our life is built around a job (what we do to make a living or what we do to put bread on the table). Can we truly say "I have a word from the Lord, what does it matter if I have no job?". Truly we live not on bread alone but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God. The Word of God framed this universe. Praise the Lord. Lord we live by your Word which is of spirit and life. We put our faith on your promises to us. I was also moved to say something concerning the false shepards. I will add that soon.

That verse is a promise to the nation of Israel NOT the United States. It has been misused by many preachers and teachers who strive to get their listeners on an emotional high. The truth is, if we are living in the last days, the Bible says it is only going to get worse before the Lord comes. Yes, we'd all love to see this nation revived and there may be pockets of revival but, generally "There will be wars and rumors of wars, pestilance, famines, earthquakes in many places". Our responsibility is to be witnesses of Jesus, plant the seeds and leave the watering up to the Lord. hello brother, I believe the Word of the Lord can apply to any nation, people, or individual at a given time as led by the Holy Spirit. 2 Chronicles 7:14 if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land. This was written to Israel yet so is the rest of the old testament. Because the old testament is written to Israel does not mean it cannot apply to us. On the same note since 1 Corinthians was written to the church in Corinth it does not mean it cannot apply to us in the local churches today. For instance, Jeremiah 29:11 (For I know the plans I have for you," declares the LORD, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future) is a promise that applies to us as well. The Lord speaks to us throughout all the bible. The Holy Spirit can reveal these things to us. I think the issue in question is on "healing their land". Yet this does not have to refer to healing the land due to wars, pestilance, famines, etc but other things. A revival takes place from within man not from outward circumstances. Outwardly things can get worse but that's not important. What matters is whether inwardly things are getting better. This is through revival. Yet through prayer we can surely physically "heal the land", the most important thing is man's heart and inner being. 2 Corinthians 4:16 For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day. What happens will be determined by our prayers. Jesus said we can move mountains if we have but faith as small as a mustard seed (matt 17:20). Surely we should keep a nation-wide revival on our prayer list. It may be the time.

Hello sister sue, Is there more detail to the dream?

Praise the Lord. Our prayers will make this happen!

Amen. I really needed this word.

jmh137... This post spoke to me either yesterday or a couple of days ago! You definetely followed the Lord! I had started on a reply but something happened and I didnt finish. Don't look at the outward circumstances of things. The Lord's Word will not return to Him void. I was having doubts at the time I read this and it encouraged me.

Hello Lasere, I am with you in this. I have also been concerned about Medication. Perhaps not as concerned as you are. But I am with you on "taking control of my life". I also need help. I was diagnosed with ADD last year. It's not clear to me yet what the Lord's will is concerning my ADD and medication. One thing for sure though I feel that I am not in control. I know what you mean Lasere when you mention the lack of desire to pursue your artistic talent. On medication I am less creative and I think a lot less. It keeps me from thinking too much yet this keeps me from getting more ideas as well. I'm not sure if that is always a good trade. It is not to say I have been in control without medicine...I was actually worse as we know the characteristics of ADD. But I'm not sure if I'm getting any better taking it. One thing that is hindering me is that I dont like what it may be doing...that is I am losing my thoughts and ideas. Even though I am more productive with it (ie...finishing homework, getting chores around the home done), I may be losing thoughts (ie...better ways to do things, innovative ideas, what and how this bible verse applies...). What is popping out to me is "Taking back control of my life". This speaks to me as this is exactly the problem I am facing. I know I am not running in my Christian walk right now. I know that I am falling asleep in my spirit. I think I am speaking out of my guilt as I know I have failed terribly in many things before the Lord. Brothers and sisters...Lift me up in prayers as well. Lasere, I will remember you as I face these things.

Hello Soulfly, I am turning 20 this year. I have been in a similar situation before. Not recently but some time ago. When I was 16 I met a person who would soon be my best friend. And he had a sister I was very much attracted to. But I wanted to remain loyal to my friend cause I knew things would change if I pursued a relationship with his sister. 2 years past...I am 18....same thing. Now I am over it. The girl did not have Christ in her life. I had always been a Christian since I was 12 yet God gave me a new perspective in December 2004. I now know the best way to seek our counterpart.... 1) God's selection 2) God's timing 3) and most important....God's way Many things still try to steal my love away from the Lord but we have to remember we need to give the Lord the first place and first love. The commandment (the greatest one) is to love the Lord with all our strength and being. If we seek first the kingdom of God, all other things will be given to us. I say this because your love for this girl is one of such that should be for our Lord Jesus. If you Love God first and put Him first in everything then God will give you something better. Our Father always has something better for us.

I believe the Holy Spirit will give us discernment in such situations. If you have been strengthened into your inner man (ephesians 3:16) as you enter the movie, then you will be able to discern the things as revealed by the Lord. Being influenced (in a bad way) by such a movie is from being in our mind. Here we develop doubts and questioning. But the Spirit is above our mind and from our Teacher we will be clear on things. I dont know much about the DaVinci code but my impression is that it is just a lot of mysticism and dramatic imagination. The things of the Lord are revealed to those who are child-like in faith. Any secret society is not of the Lord. Is the lamp meant to be covered as to keep it's light from shining? We are the light of the world.

Hello hat_town21... You must have thought I was replying to you with the above post. I wasnt. It was in response to everyone and in the leading of the Lord.

I see why you would ask this question but please read what I am trying to convey again... "I see that selfishness is especially involved in poker. Wanting the best for ourselves at the lost of others. I think that will hinder the testimony of Christ to such people. " This is in particular for the testimony of Christ. There is such a perspective on sports as mentioned...(wanting the best for ourselves at the lost of others; ie selfishness). My perspective on sports is primarily fun and entertainment yet it is true that "wanting the best for ourselves at the lost of others" is a big part of it. However, this is particular stronger in poker....(you compete against each other and the goal is to get their money...whereas sports have other types of goal according to the game). I believe the Lord is leading us to the following dream... http://www.worthyboards.com/index.php?showtopic=38193 please read this