Clio

*nods head vigorously* Yep. And when I learned that, it moved me to tears again. You see, I'm also adopted from birth. And on top of that, I was raised by a step-father, my mama's second husband. The concept of a "Daddy" instead of a Father.... Wow! It still bowls me over. A "Daddy" was totally outside my experience before. Clio

Ok, clearly it's directed to me.... so I will share. Back in 2000, which for me was the watershed year in my relationship with Abba and Jesus, I was struggling to heal emotionally, mentally and spiritually that churchianity had done to my relationship with Them. I wanted to pray, I longed for the peace I should have gotten from prayer, but part of me resisted praying. One day, I was closeted in my office on our ranch praying and weeping because I was in a real fix, but like always it felt like all my ceilings were brass, and my prayers were bouncing back and hitting me in the face. I had quit praying and was just kneeling with my face in my chair, sobbing, and it hit me that I didn't want to pray to the God that was the entity I knew from church, one whose title had been made into a swear word, and in my desperation I gasped that out in prayer. It was all I could do. As I cried, I gradually became aware of the word "Abba" repeating over and over in my mind, almost in time to my sobs. When this realization finally hit my consciousness, I sat up and prayed and said, "Abba, if this be from You, give me a sign." Immediately I was filled with peace, and a comfort that dried my tears instantly. A vision of me on His lap sobbing my heart out was imprinted on my brain. Several months later, I found for the first time the texts where Jesus cried out to Abba, and Paul tells us that "we cry Abba, Father." Biblical basis with the requisite two witnesses that Jesus tells us in Matthew 18:16 are required to establish all things. Abba is the name He, Himself, gave me to call Him. He is my Abba, and I am His daughter. Clio

Yes. Do you? There is no other way, and it's all tied up in the Blood Covenant, sealed with proxy blood for 5000 years and finally, once and for all, on Calvary, when the Only Begotten Son of the Most High, yielded His Blood as the final and eternal sealing of that covenant. In order to be born again, one must believe in all that Jesus accomplished with the spilling of His Blood. 1. It brought us into a Covenant relationship with the Most High. 2. It made it possible for us to be partakers of His Nature, just as He became a partaker in ours when He put on humanity. 3. It made us literally a child of Abba Father, just as Jesus is. 4. It is the mechanism by which Grace operates, allowing Abba to be both merciful and just without paradox. If any doubts this, I can post a great deal more on this topic, reams even... but it would be best if you purchased the book the Blood Covenant by H. Clay Trumball. It's particularly nice, because he places each and every text from the Bible at the bottom of the page you're reading. You can actually read the text and it's context as you study. Clio

Actually the context you mention (communal meals) is not mentioned in the context of this passage. The context is a brother who leads an unruly life. Namely they refuse to work. As such, they are not to be given food, but are to be left to their own devices and not eat. Your conclusions about a real brother not being homeless, are really a reading into the text on your part. Could you provide textual support regarding your idea that real believers will never be homeless by choice Sure. It's simple, and just from my explanation, you'll probably be able to figure out the texts. We are strangers to God before we become born again. We are strangers to each other until we become born again. Paul would not have called ANYONE brother except someone he deemed to be in the Family of Abba through belief on Jesus Christ. If you have a true relationship with Jesus, healing comes into all areas of your life. Anyone living in the homeless condition by choice has never truly in every fiber of their being met Jesus. NO ONE is a brother unless born again into the Kingdom Family through grace and faith in True Jesus. They are the lost, and as such, no instructions to the "brethren" apply.

KJBS - I love it! You get it! ALL churches are going to hell. It is the believers in True Jesus who have a heart-committed relationship with Him who will be taking the ride Home when Jesus is in the skies over our planet. It's about relationship not religion. The time of churches being on the side of Abba in this rather protracted civil war is ending. The Bible tells us in many places that the at the end, the still living portion of the Lamb's Bride is made up of the remnant believers from all denominations. Those who have a fully surrendered relationship filled with the fruit of the spirit and obedience from a loving heart. A remnant is a very small thing. Very. Kinda goes with the prophecy that men will be as scarce as fine gold at the end. Clio

A.K. I think we're saying the same thing. My conclusion was 'help them on a minimal basis' too. But the Word of God still stands that 'if a man will not work, neither should he eat....' By the way, I was NOT making any 'assumption' but speaking from several years' experience and the investment of 10's of thousands of dollars! DON'T THROW YOUR MONEY THAT DIRECTION! Paul says the Church's charity ought to be to take care of widows and orphans, and he even HEAVILY QUALIFIES THAT GIVING!!!! Too many Christians are out there trying to be 'nicer than Jesus!' Since none of what I give is mine, but belongs to Abba, including money, who am I to say "No" if the Spirit says give? I have walked out the Spirit's instructions long enough to recognize His guidance when I get it. I do not give indiscriminately or with poor stewardship, but only at His direction and according to how He directs. It is different every single time. Sometimes I am taken advantage of, but that's ok. It's not mine anyway. I don't have enough to share with anyone. My husband has been an invalid for more than two years, my paycheck doesn't cover the basics, and yet Abba blesses us and we always have whatever is needed and more to give as He directs. I also have given tens of thousands of dollars worth of aid. I do not count the cost, for in giving to least of these I have given to Jesus. And it was all His to begin with. And... "nicer than Jesus" It's not possible! Jesus yielded His all. Voluntarily.

The actual situation is recorded in 2 Thess 3:6-12. Paul was hearing of believers of the church in Thessalonica who were disorderly, coming to communal meals and expecting to be fed without contributing either in food or money. He was NOT speaking of the lost or the poor or the homeless. Here is the entire context with bolding my emphasis, taken from the NKJV. 6 But we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you withdraw from every brother who walks disorderly and not according to the tradition which he received from us. 7 For you yourselves know how you ought to follow us, for we were not disorderly among you; 8 nor did we eat anyone's bread free of charge, but worked with labor and toil night and day, that we might not be a burden to any of you, 9 not because we do not have authority, but to make ourselves an example of how you should follow us. 10 For even when we were with you, we commanded you this: If anyone will not work, neither shall he eat. 11 For we hear that there are some who walk among you in a disorderly manner, not working at all, but are busybodies. 12 Now those who are such we command and exhort through our Lord Jesus Christ that they work in quietness and eat their own bread. Any who are homeless by choice do not fit into that category of brethren. It is not possible to know True Jesus and continue to be homeless by choice. It makes it impossible to be all the potential He wants to grow you into, to continue to be homeless. Besides, the healing in emotions, physical, mental, and spirit, brings to them a sense of self-esteem that prevents anyone from being homeless by choice. That self-esteem comes from knowing who they truly are in the Family of Abba Father. To continue to live homeless by choice would cast dispersion and dishonor on the King of Heaven and the Most High. After all, they were worthy of the death of the King of Kings and Commander of the Heavenly Host. To hold themselves less worthy and to live in such a way, it becomes anathema to them. Clio

In the last 4 years we have had a family of 7 live with us for 3 months, a homeless couple for a month, a homeless young man for a year, two ladies who moved here with job offers that fell through once they got here for 5 months. We volunteer at the food bank, shelters, and whenever I meet a homeless person, I always try and visit with them. If I don't have time, then I look directly at them and smile. If they are in my way, I treat them as courteously as I would anyone else, saying "Excuse me, Please, thank you" when they make room for me to go on about my way. I occasionally give them cash, always food, I have gone home after seeing people standing out in bitter winter weather, stripped my home of blankets, knit caps, coats, and quilts and gone back and handed them out. I have taken and made breakfast burritos, 100 at a time and distributed them to whomever I saw that morning. Offering more than one to people if they would give it to others who might otherwise miss the bounty. I never take an offering, nor do I expect assistance from any church. I don't belong to one. I make no distinguishment between depending on the Lord or not. It is the Spirit's job to reach their heart, it's mine to be a witness. Jesus was no distinguisher of persons. He met each and every single person wherever they were at, met their physical needs, and from there the way was opened for Him to minister to their spiritual needs. I have been taking homeless people into my home for meals, to sleep, to stay and get on their feet, to clothe them, to allow them a bath, whatever for 20 years. My husband tells people who look at us kinda strange that "my wife collects strays.... and helps them"... but that was before he became a Christian. Now he tells people, it's a "Jesus thing." It's not my job to judge whether or not they are deserving. Clio

Deadman, It's not my job to convict your heart. That is the Spirit's job. I do agree with you that the Bible never contradicts itself. My position above is based on careful, Spirit led exegesis. Of Romans as well as other books. Thirty plus years worth. I NEVER put forth anything I cannot substantiate from the full compendium of whatever the Scriptures have to say on any given topic, including anything in Revelations, Romans, the OT, the NT, you name it. I do not proof text. Ever. Part of why I did not do so above, is that there have been numerous topics on the Sabbath. I took the time to read them. I also tailored my post to reflect an easier time of reading what I desired to communicate. If you would like to look into the scriptural basis of my post, please request the texts in question. If your mind is closed then there is no point until the Spirit determines it's time. Oh... and before anyone points fingers or asks, I am not a member of any denomination, and thus have no agenda to push other than what the Bible actually says. Clio

October 28, 2001 It's too soon to tell if today was a disaster or a special act of Providence. All I know is...it was stressful. Last night, the pastor's wife extended the hospitality of the parsonage for a few days, and we made arrangements to look at a small home. What a disaster! The house should have been condemned years ago. One whole side was tarped, and it was awful. But I should begin at the beginning... We got up this morning and the bus wouldn't start. We couldn't plug it in last night and this morning it wouldn't turn over. Mike went and bought an extra extension cord, begged power from the motel, and we plugged it in and went and had breakfast. We came back and tried to start it, still nothing. Mike crawled up under the bus to look it over, and there was no block heater. The plug-in and the tail were there, but the block heater had been removed. Mike sent me into the motel, and I called a mechanic. The first place I called told me he could help me, but he was going to refer me to Gabe's because Gabe's was really the one I needed to be talking to. Huh????? Who or what was Gabe

October 27, 2001

October 27, 2001 - Morning Disaster! The JBweld didn't hold, we still have a crack in the block and there goes the last half of our housing allowance.... Well, the mechanic was truly sent by God. He fixed the truck enough that we can get to Fairbanks, and only charged us half. But the bus wouldn't start this morning when we wanted to leave Tok. Mike went next door to the hardware store and bought some starter-spray-aerosol stuff...and finally, it started. Whatever he used smelled terrible, and there are some fumes of it inside the bus, but with the window open I can drive. I

I had been dreading the border crossing into Alaska. After all, we have 4 animals, 9 firearms, a psychedelic bus, and a temperamental pickup. Never mind the 3 kids...who by this time are ready for the psycho-ward...or maybe I am ready for the loony-bin and they've won. I don't know what they've won, but they are ahead on points, I'm sure of that! The border guards were actually quite nice. They came on board the bus, petted Sgan, counted noses, stepped on one of the cats, reviewed the firearms paperwork we filled out on entry into Canada, reviewed the paint job on the bus.... and then let us through! After Mike came through, we stopped and he told me that the guards had said, "Anyone calling that much attention to themselves can't have much to hide!" We

October 25, 2001 Today, before we left Whitehorse, Mike had the engine checked on his truck. The news is not good. The block is cracked. Now, I know God is watching over us, has our good and a plan in mind, (Jeremiah 29:11-13) but somehow, He's going to have to finance this endeavor. We just spent half our housing allowance on getting the engine repaired with something called "JB Weld" and are hoping it will hold and get us to Fairbanks. The kids and I ate breakfast while Mike had this repair done. All this made for a very late start from Whitehorse. While we were eating breakfast, just across the street from the Whitehorse airport, we found out something interesting from one of the old-timers who was having a cup of coffee. There is an old, twin-engine prop plane that is mounted at the entrance to the airport. It's very nicely restored and painted; in fact it looks like it could take off at any minute. Well, the winds really whip through the valley here and were vibrating this old plane literally to pieces. Last year, a group of aviators dismounted the plane, replaced it's stationary stand with a revolving unit, and now the plane is a giant wind indicator. Whichever way the wind last swooped through the valley is the way the plane is facing. I was hoping the plane would rotate while we were there, but it didn't. That would have been fun to see. It has to be one of the largest wind indicators anywhere! The sun is shining today, and I just can't help feeling wonderful in spite of everything. The mountains are glorious and we are heading into the Kluane Wilderness reserve. With the late start we had, there's no way to make Alaska today. So we are staying at a wide spot in the road overlooking Kluane Lake, called Destruction Bay. It's frosty and cold. The coldest it's been on this entire trip. It

October 22, 2001 It

October 21, 2001 Today is my youngest child

October 20, 2001 We left Fort St. John early on Sabbath morning. The hotel we stayed at included breakfast as part of the room rate so we all had a great breakfast before setting out. It was snowing lightly, and a blizzard had been predicted as we made the beginnings of our journey into the Yukon. It was gray and overcast, and for the first time the roads were slick. The kids and I prayed that God will provide us with weather that allowed us to travel, and didn't keep us hotel bound. It bothered me a little traveling on Sabbath, but staying in the face of obvious winter weather would have been foolhardy. My husband has not yet made his commitment to God, and for over a year now, I have been blessed by fitting in with his plans, according to 1 Peter 3:1-6. I

I do not disagree with you. But in even what you post, you are usurping the role of the Most High. At the moment of suicide, we, finite beings that we are, do not KNOW what is in the heart of the sufferer. Only the Father, who knows all hearts, is capable of making that determination. And not only that, the role of Judge is reserved for Him alone. Who are we to judge? NO ONE. We cannot speak to the eternal disposition of that soul, because WE HAVE NO WAY OF KNOWING. Only Abba can. And who will be standing on the Sea of Glass before the great, white Throne of the Most High is not our call to make. Abba Father is in the business of healing. And if the pain, anguish, despair, and potentially mental illness, is so great as to drive one worthy of True Jesus death to the taking of their own life is so great surely there is sufficient mercy even for that. We cannot know. We cannot even answer it from the Bible. We do not know the disposition of all the souls mentioned in the Bible who have died. We know the giants of faith, and we can be certain where they will be, but all the others? No clue. The Bible is silent on that. Clio

October 19th, 2001 We left Prince George with the goal of making it to Fort St. John. The actual Alaska Highway starts in Dawson, and Fort St. John is the next stop on the Alaska Highway. As we left Prince George, we were just about 30 kilometers out of town, and the geography changed to mountain and farmland. We were rattling along in the psychedelic bus, and a big bull moose was feeding right next to the highway. He threw up his head, stared wide-eyed at us, and broke into a run and lumbered off into the forest. It was so funny to watch the moose run. He was all gangly legs and it looked uncoordinated until he got up to speed. And then he really moved! I wonder what that old bull thought of the contraption rattling down the highway? The scenery was beautiful between Prince George and Dawson. The highway wound around the base of mountains alongside a river. The mountains were tall, jagged, and rocky, with forests of spruce, birch, and evergreen. The leaves were bright gold, interspersed with the darker greens of evergreen trees. Seeing the foliage changing on the trees really impressed on me that this may not have been the smartest thing we ever did. It is definitely late fall up here, and we are moving to a place where we have no jobs, no home, no friends, and we don

October 18th, 2001 What a journey. From Cache Creek we drove to Prince George, BC, a city of about 50,000 people. It is a lovely city, built on a river, and by far the largest city we will encounter on our trip. We stopped early, since the next town was farther than we wanted to try and drive, and rented a room in a hotel with an indoor pool. What a blessing the pool turned out to be. The kids had a chance to work off some of the excitement and energy from being cooped up in the bus. The bus draws more attention than I think the kids ever thought it would. People watch us coming, turn and gawk as we go by, and I think some of them may have broken their necks gaping at as after we were already past! I don

October 17th, 2001 Day One on our Abraham's Journey: I suppose if anyone ever reads this, they will think it presumptuous of me to name our trek north after Abraham. But God led him, and Sarah had faith, and it gives me comfort. Besides, the likelihood of anyone ever reading this is pretty slim. Today, as God led, we left the ranch. So many miracles got us to today. God sold the ranch, provided the bus, worked the truck over, got a job lead for my husband, even. God sold the van yesterday, and someone came by last night and bought a bunch of tools. We pulled out with $5000 cash. The very amount my husband had said we would need. We climbed into the psychedelic bus with mixed feelings of optimism, relief, and fear. My husband led us in a short prayer, (PTL!) and we headed out of the ranch's driveway. It was bitter indeed to drive under the custom sign we had purchased and had hung only a year earlier. The horse

Part IV And God told Abram, "Leave your own country behind you, and your own people and go to the land I will guide you to." ... So Abram departed as the Lord had instructed him. Genesis 12:1 & 4 God made it clear we weren't to stay on the ranch, and now we had a way to get to Alaska, so the packing, sorting, donating, and selling began in earnest. We sold our horses, at a loss mostly, and I learned a new lesson in trust. It broke my heart to see the tears on our daughter

Part III As we got ready to leave, my husband would occasionally send a message through me, to people with whom we had business dealings. In the past I had chickened out when the opportunity arose to deliver the message or talk to that person. I was often very uncomfortable by angry words, in fact, my cognitive processes basically shut down, and I just wait for the unpleasantness to pass. This doesn

Part II My husband was not comfortable with the whole idea. So I suggested we ask God for a sign. We remembered the old school bus, maybe a