sierra21

Let God worry about his children. You worry about yourself.

Try telling the soldiers getting killed all over the world that they are just babies and do not know their own minds..or the police officers who have to face crazed gunmen or bombs or have to deal with the results of traffic accidents and suiceds or murders that they are only babies and do not know their own minds. If he is in the navy then presumably the navy think he is old enough to know his own mind and ..if need be ..to die for his country If you are being asked to pay for the wedding then you have a right to say no and that you think it is too much and the money could be put to better use ...but if you are not then it is a matter for the person or people who are paying and if they think it is what they want to do with their money then it is their decision...what is right for one person or couple is not always going to be right for everyone else Right on the money (no pun intended...)

Personally, I think it's a lot to spend on a wedding. Personally, I think when I was 19 I would have been an awful wife and would have had no idea what I was doing in a marriage. BUT This isn't me. Some people are willing to pay whatever it takes to have their dream wedding, even if it means going into debt. And I have seen some very mature young people in my time. Take my brother. He was 18 when he became a police officer, and 20 when he got engaged. He was already with his wife to be at 19 and could have very well gotten married to her if the oppurtunity had been right. So age isn't always an issue for everyone. Some people know what they want and don't see any harm in having it right away. And really, no one has the right to say anything to them on the matter. It isn't anyones business but their own- they are adults after all.

Yup I was just going to say this. My mother always told me that the best reaction to someone being rude to you is to be almost sickiningly nice to them. And it works 100% of the time.

I'm so sad to hear about this emily anne. Please tell your husband how awful I feel for him. I worked for a long time with people who had various mental and physical disabilities, so I've always felt comfortable asking people if they need help. Sometimes people say yes, and sometimes people say no. It doesn't bother me one bit. I do have to mention that recently when we were down in the US doing some christmas/baby shopping I was very disheartened by the reaction of some people when I had to use a wheelchair because of the pain I was experiencing in my feet (I was 33 weeks pregnant, what can you expect right?). Anyways, people stared at me constantly, pretty much ignored me unless I DEMANDED their attention, and rarely offered help if I managed to get caught in a tight space in some of those very wheelchair-unfriendly stores (this happened when my husband would leave me to try on some clothes or whatever and of course I'm too stubborn to stay in one stop). At one point I actually had myself lodged in between two racks of clothes and instead of people helping, they just walked around me. I had to holler for my husband to come and help. Very sad. I have an even greater appreciation for those who must utilize wheelchairs every single day- it is not an easy task both emotionally and physically.

I think the advice about finding a dog that is calmer than your current dog is something to deffinitely think about. We watched my brothers dog (who is a very energetic, male boxer) while also having our dog (a very energetic female golden retriever) and we thought that after a little while of excitement in the house that they would calm down- but they NEVER did! Eventually we had to keep them outside during the day (which was okay because we have a fenced in backyard, and it was the summer) and at nighttime we had to keep our dog in our bedroom with the door closed, and my brothers dog in the livingroom just so they would get some sleep. But they were absolutely crazy inside together for the entire week that we were dogsitting. I would never even think of getting another high energy dog just because of that experience. At the same time our neighbours paired up their very high energy female husky with a frisky small female mixbreed dog and it worked out fantastic. I think it all depends on your dog and the pairing. I would recommend maybe asking if you could bring the dog home for a few days to see how it works out. You should probably know by the end of day two if it's going to work out.

Okay I was just at the official movie website. Basically, it's a movie about witches, some sort of "daemons", and a golden compass that reads "truth" instead of true north. This is deffinitely not a movie I would take my kids to see. But if you want to find out more visit their website. I would post it but usually the mods don't like that. Google "The Golden Compass".

I don't know anything about this movie either, but apparently the schools in our area are not allowing the book to be read as a part of the curriculum. Perhaps I should google it.

neh- I'm gonna stick with green. It doesn't look as bad as I thought it would....but it's just not a christmas tree! It's just as bad as those awful white trees. Can't stand em.

I believed in santa as a kid and I never thought he was "God like". I thought he was some cool dude who was nice enough to bring presents to everyone. Until I got a little older and realized if I told my parents that I knew santa wasn't real I'd miss out on the present. So I kept my mouth shut. Seriously, you guys don't give kids enough credit. If you raise em right, teach them about the true meaning of Christmas, the santa claus character isn't going to affect their faith.

Half the crowd is unable to back up their reasoning with any scripture. But the argument isn't really about scripture! I think every single person who posted on this thread can AGREE that lying to your children is wrong, and it's a sin. The argument is about whether or not ALLOWING your children to believe in Santa is a sin. Do you think it is ok for our children to believe that santa is omnipresent? I never once said I agreed with this. I was never told this as a child, and frankly, it creeps me out to think that some kids actually believe this. If my kids were to ask me about this, I would tell them that it's bunk, because it is. If you go back to my arguments, you will see that I REPEATEDLY include a statement such as this: "as long as it doesn't get out of hand". If my kids took it too far, we would sit down and have a discussion. As a child though, I never asked about santa because I didn't want to risk not getting a present!

I believe it does, as evidenced in the verses in my signature. I didn't say it doesn't, I said it SHOULD not. We should understand that admonishment from a brother would be coming from the Lord our God, and try to listen. Especially when the Word is presented. Remember, Ovedya, God's Word never returns to Him empty. Okay, so now we're playing games with grammer. Maybe that's the problem, some people are unable to understand grammer. If things are read the way they are written instead of assuming what is written there would be less confusion. This will be my last respose to you Sierra, since you are obviously doing your best to draw me into a debate about something other than the topic at hand. Not surprising Biblicist. This is your always your response to my posts- be insulting, and then sulk off saying it was my fault...

Half the crowd is unable to back up their reasoning with any scripture. But the argument isn't really about scripture! I think every single person who posted on this thread can AGREE that lying to your children is wrong, and it's a sin. The argument is about whether or not ALLOWING your children to believe in Santa is a sin.

I believe it does, as evidenced in the verses in my signature. I didn't say it doesn't, I said it SHOULD not. We should understand that admonishment from a brother would be coming from the Lord our God, and try to listen. Especially when the Word is presented. Remember, Ovedya, God's Word never returns to Him empty. Okay, so now we're playing games with grammer.

It's simple. People are being jumped on as being "holier than thou" for their approach. People get angry when others call them "liars". I have a question for you. When you witness, do you say: "If you believe in God, you will live eternally in the warmth of his heavens." Or do you say: "Pfft. If you don't believe in God you'll burn in Hell." I guarantee that people will listen to the first example, and run from the second. It's all about approach. And it was approached with an abundance of scripture unlike the side in favor of not telling our children Santa is not real. Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. Scripture isn't what anyone was bothered by. We can all sit down and agree that lying is a sin. The disagreement is whether or not people are actually lying to their children about Santa. I think more than a few people have given fair arguements to show that they aren't in fact, lying to their children. Yet, they continue to be called "liars" time and time again. And since it appears no one is really taking the time to read Oveyda's posts- I suggest you do. And read his signature.

It's simple. People are being jumped on as being "holier than thou" for their approach. People get angry when others call them "liars". I have a question for you. When you witness, do you say: "If you believe in God, you will live eternally in the warmth of his heavens." Or do you say: "Pfft. If you don't believe in God you'll burn in Hell." I guarantee that people will listen to the first example, and run from the second. It's all about approach. As CHRISTIANS, it should not matter what the approach. We are all Christians, brothers and sisters in Christ. Please, stick to the topic, and stay away from the strawman arguments. If what is being said is bothering you so much, you don't have to answer or even read the posts... The choice is yours whether or not you come into this thread. No one is forcing you to read, believe or adhere to what is being said. You know what? That's just ridiculous. You know just as well as I do that ones approach to any situation, issue, argument can be the make-or-break. It's quite evident that we aren't going to be able to sit down and have a fair discussion on the issue because half the crowd here isn't willing to be honest with themselves.

You obviously read the thread with a biased view and only see one side. True I got a little offensive myself in one post, but really, most of the offense was from those who feel very defensive about the issue. Okay I'm sorry, but I have to ask. How can one be both offensive and defensive at the same time? When people feel defensive, they tend to lash out. Now, this is not what the thread is about. Let's get back to the topic, hmm? Well actually, this has become a part of this topic. And you didn't answer my question. I'm assuming it's because you don't know? For which I don't blame you, because it doesn't make sense.

It's simple. People are being jumped on as being "holier than thou" for their approach. People get angry when others call them "liars". I have a question for you. When you witness, do you say: "If you believe in God, you will live eternally in the warmth of his heavens." Or do you say: "Pfft. If you don't believe in God you'll burn in Hell." I guarantee that people will listen to the first example, and run from the second. It's all about approach.

You obviously read the thread with a biased view and only see one side. True I got a little offensive myself in one post, but really, most of the offense was from those who feel very defensive about the issue. Okay I'm sorry, but I have to ask. How can one be both offensive and defensive at the same time?

Gosh I really can't believe how long this topic has gone on for. I'm not going to say anymore on the topic since it's clear both groups are going to have to "agree to disagree". But before I leave, I would like to address those members who have employed the use of the term "hypocrite". In your arguments you have resorted to name calling, rude comments, and excessive judgement upon those that do not agree with your points. In response to your "arguments" (or as you would like them to be termed, even though they are clearly what I describe as above) the parties have attempted to calm the waters, taking as little offense as possible (for that, they should be congratulated). So really, when I open my bible, who are the real hypocrites? The ones that allow their kids to believe in fairytales, or the ones who treat their fellow brothers and sisters with anger, distaste, and blatant disrespect?

Oh for goodness sakes.... I honestly can't believe that people subscribe to this kind of junk.

Hey Sierra, Why is a person being a "scrooge" or ruining Christmas by not talking about Santa? Actually if you go back and read you'll see that I never said this. What I meant was that I believe it's unfair to sit your kids down at Christmas and blow all of their fun by telling them that santa isn't real. I'm not saying you should encourage an unhealthy fixation, but I don't believe any child is going to believe only in santa, when you advocate the very important Christian principles above all else. A little fun with a make-believe character shouldn't (and won't) adversely affect your children if it is approached appropriately. I still maintain that Santa is not unlike any other fairytale character, just that his popularity LOOMS over the christmas season.

Yes ladyc, this is exactly what I mean.

Vickilyn said: Listen Sierra, you need to know that I don't care WHAT man's logic says. You see, I care what G-D says. You can justify it all day long and it still is wrong to lie, whether that lie makes your children happy or not. G-d's ways are not negotiable. They CHOOSE to believe? You, as a parent are responsible for telling them the truth that Santa is not real. If you don't, it's ther same as if you DID sit down and lie to them. You know they believe a lie and you are responsible for setting them straight. Sierra: No, I disagree. If this were true we would all have to sit around twiddling our thumbs because entertainment as we know it would be nothing more than a "lie" and thus as parents, we should not be advocating that. If you really believe this VL you had better clear out all those books about fairytales, throw out childrens DVD's, and anything that has any connotation to something that isn't "real". Vickilynn: So, you willfully and rebelliously choose to perpetuate the lie that Santa is real, even though you know it's a sin? Why don't you go out and steal, murder, commit adultery? Sin is sin. I am amazed that you choose Santa over G-d. That is what I call idolatry. It is very serious. Sierra: Where did I say that I am choosing Santa over God?? Christmas is, and will always be, a religious holiday for me and my family. You are quite rude to even insinuate that I might be idolizing Santa. Shame on you. Vickilynn: I'm not trying to persuade you to do anything. You will have to answer to Jesus for choosing Santa over G-d and rebelling against G-d's Word. All I can do is share His Word with you and pray for you, and I have done that and will continue. It really scares me that you have chosen an idol over your professed G-d. I pray for you Sierra. Sierra: Seriously VL. You get quite angry when people pull the "holier than thou" attitude with you, and thats exactly what card you're playing right now. I know full-heartedly that I am NOT choosing any idol over Christ, and for you to suggest that this is so is nothing more than judgement. Last time I checked that was a sin. Should we argue over that now???