LightofJesus

Thanks, "Sparky"! If you ever get the chance, would you ask the pastor why it's offered once a month? Peace, Fiosh Hey, Fiosh, I forgot about that I just happen to have a Book of Order (the governing document for Presbyterians) and it says (Summary to follow, for the lazy ): W-2.4009: The Lord

stitchy I'm 51 is that old enough? I would be glad to help in any way I can!!!

One day at a time! You are obviously young, and you need to just take it a little slower and concentrate on your school. I am alone cause my husband died, now that threw a wrench in the spoke. I was not intending on being alone at this time in my life but here I am and it didn't take God by surprise either. I just take it one day at a time. I have days that are bad because I do not like being this alone. But guess what I still am. God knows your needs and He also knows who He has for you!! Let Him bring that perfect one to you and guess what the guy will return those feelings cause God chose him not you Just rest in the Lord and let Him do what He does best when we allow Him to be in control

Does that answer your question? I think that all divorce starts with hardness of hearts. That was Moses that allowed divorce due to their hardness of heart, that was not Jesus allowing it because of...

Hardness of Heart????? Where did you see this in the Bible????

What I would like to know is who in the world are they going to sue. It was these attackers that cause the destruction not anyone here. Always someone out there wanting to gain from someone elses loss. That is what gets my goat.

In America, atheists commit less crimes than religions people do, on average. I can't remember where I learned that; I'll dig up the source and post it soon. WHAT?! Of course they have a reason to abide by laws! Laws instill stability. Atheists want to live in stable societies as much as anyone else. Atheists don't believe in God. That doesn't mean they don't believe in other things. Christianity did not invent morality. There are all kinds of moral systems within society that are peaceful, compassionate, and completely nonreligious. There is only ONE moral law and that is the morality of our Lord. Man's laws have tried to perfect society with their laws and henceforth only caused caos and strife. The LOVE that comes from God causes those that believe to such high morals. Morals I believe are instilled into the hearts of believers supernaturally and then walked out through our life with the Lord. We as humans on our own without God cannot live totally moral lives, even as believers we fall short at times because we are not perfect while in this earthly state but we are walking towards that perfection!!! We are only saved by grace and heading toward our destiny!!!

Lady C I have been hearing about this for a couple of years now. It is a part of the mindset of people and organizations when it comes to who has the money and who does not. I'm afraid that that is how simple it is. PEOPLE do not care for anyone just that dollar bill!

Amen!!!!

My computer says 5:42 and worthy says 6:42 so i do not think it has been changed!

Thank you so much for sharing this, here are my thoughts after seeing this; I can't understand one thing? How can some not believe that there is going to be a rapture?????? Jesus said it and it will be so. I do not want to be left behind, how about you?

Denominations do nothing but split the church. Every great move of God another denomination seems be born. I do believe that God will bring us to point of becoming a whole body. I also believe that all these great moves were to bring us together not split, He was jsut showing us another aspect of Himself each time and all we did was make it as if this is how he is in each move and He has ended showing anymore attributes of His being. I'm not real knowledgable on the great histories of all the denominations, but what I see is that different denominations just focus on one attribute of God and call it as if that is all God is or can do. He is so many things that to box Him up into a denomination has limited God and the church. I truly believe in my heart God is about to break every box we the church has put God into and we shall know the whole truth and truly be free to serve Him as a whole body. Those that want to hang on to their denomination God I'm sure will let you but as for me I will serve the Lord!!!

Bob, God sent his judgment on Israel many times over, not because they did not believe in God (they did), but because they chose to follow after other gods, as well. They did not make God their One and Only God. They allowed themselves to follow not only after other gods but the patterns of the world around them. They adopted the customs of people who followed after other gods. This, I believe, is a picture, not only of America but of the Church in America. We have become too worldly and we have adopted the culture of the world even in the Church. We have forsaken our first love and God is not our One and ONly God in America and in the Church in America. We are following after the gods of this world; the gods of our stomachs. We have become apathetic to the sin condition of our nation and of the Church. And, we follow the teachings of men more than we do the teachings of God. Case in point: Your response when I asked you where you learned methods of prayer. You learned them from the teachings of men, not from God and His Word. But, that is where you need to learn how to pray - from His Word. I don't recall the statistics, but there are more abortions done in the USA than in the rest of the world. I think it is like 1/3 of the population of NYC that has been aborted, or something really close to that. We don't know all the things that are going on in the government, either, but God does. There is so much going on in America and in the Church in America that we don't even realize, but God does, and he is willing to show you what he sees through his eyes if you will let him show you. You see, my knowledge of what God thinks about America does not come from my own thinking, it comes through His revealing it to me through time spent with him at his feet daily. The Bible says we have the mind of Christ, and God is willing to show us what is on his mind if we will just ask him. Why not take some time with Him and ask Him what he thinks about all of this? Hi Sue!! I agree on what you're saying about the church. We are so much like the world it is horrifying. That is why the un-believers do not come to Jesus, why, they can get everything they want in the world because it looks the same as the world. All this begging for money from anyone who wants to participate in what they are "SELLING". and that is what they are doing is selling what THEY believe, not what the Word says in majority of books today. I am not saying "ALL" books either, majority. There is another post on "the pulpits" and it is speaking some truths too! Love ya Sue

My opinion and we all have those. Joel is one who will not address sin at it's core. He walks all around it and only speaks on issues that make everyone think all is well and there is no work to be done as long as I go to church and read his book. He is nothing but a feel good preacher and is decieving many . This is my opinion and if it is judging pointing out sin then so be it!

OK I will give it try. We all sin in our walk we are not able to walk perfectly in this body. We all sin so we cannot measure what is more sinful than another sin. Sin is sin. This contaversy with Haggard has really got to me that the 'CHURCH' continally deals with 'SIN' in the pulpit as if no one else has sinned. Jesus told the Priests of His day that any that have not sinned cast the first stone. Does not matter what the sin,it all is sin. We have a tendancy to measure sin as if it is worse than other sins. All that the Lord has laid on my heart strongly is that the 'WORLD' needs to SEE the 'CHURCH' forgive this MAN and move on. We point fingers at people as if we are so guiltless of sin. That my brothers and sisters is hypocracy.

"Discussion" does not include attributing a position to me that I have not held to. It does not include accusing me of saying hermeneutics are necessary for you to be a good Christian. I have repeatedly asserted that such was not my position but each succeeding post of yours was full of sarcasm and accusing me of saying that YOU had no boundaries, or that your method lacked knowledge and so forth when I never said anything like that about you, but was a making a generalized statement regarding the value of hermeneutics for the Body of Christ as a whole. You crossed a line with me when you decided to make my remarks into a personal attack on you, just so that you could avoid addressing the real meat of the issues I was raising regarding hermeneutics. Twisting someone's words and continuing to do so, after repeated attempts made by myself to assure you that I was not doing that, is an insult, and while it may not a "personal attack" it is rude and inconsiderate, and far from bering imperonsal. Your attitude made your remarks VERY personal. I did not say that the thread was closed or that you could not discuss it. What I said was that if all you are going to do is berate us for feeling that hermeneutics have value, and if all you are going to do is characterize it as a threat against being led by the Spirit, and so forth, and if you don't like hermeneutics and your only purpose on this thread is to criticize and make disparaging remarks then you should go somewhere else. What you were doing was not "discussing." You offered nothing constructive. Rather everyone of your posts was just one canard after another about why you don't need hermeneutics. Good, if don't need it, and you don't like it, then why ruin this thread for everyone else? When you actually want to "discuss," then by all means do so. You made it about me when you continued to misrepresent my positions, and ignored my pleas to understand what I was saying. My pleas were simply brushed aside, with no serious consideration as to their merit, and you continued on making me out to say what I did not say. So, yeah, I take that personally, as would anyone. No one likes to have words put in their mouths, but what do you care, right? I have not spoken out of line, and I have not committed any "trespass." I have just simply dealt with you at a level of honesty you are either unable or unwilling to face up to. The very sarcasm in the last paragraph of yours, above defies any notion of genuine forgiveness on your part. I have no need, or use for any counterfeit, disingenuous "forgiveness" you have to offer. You can keep it to yourself. I'm sorry, but I have to say one thing here. Reading all that has been written and all the accusations and if it were in a room in person I'm sure there would be raised voices. You all should be ashamed of yourselves and shiloh you sound like you have a very hard heart. I am appauled at the way you all have handled yourselves as sisters and brothers. Oh maybe you forgot who you are and who you belong to. You all better settle your differences and get right! That is all I have to say, with love

My My My My we sure can get ugly in here. Real Christ like you guys. Need not to defend yourselves. We all are so guilty of this defence thing we need to let God move within us and let Him speak to our hearts and tell us what He wants us to say. He wants us to study His word but my oh my He surely does not want us attacking one another. Think before you write and let's shake hands OK

This is exactly the way I feel. The Holy Spirit is our teacher. He knows all the true meaning of the Word. If you choose to study a certain way then that is for you but just because ALL of us do not study the same way does not mean we are getting any less knowledge of the Word. This way of study TO ME sounds like mans way of doing things. Sorry but I really think that the Spirit of God knows best of how to reach us in our spirit man. We are spirit , soul and body. Our spirit is where God speaks to us not our brain, that is the playground of the enemy and I do not rely on my brain to teach me anything. Too fickle in my reasoning. I get true revelation from the Word directly from the Spirit of God and I do rely on Him more than I could, or ever will rely on any type of pattern created by man. God gave us the Word so we would have all we need and that should be enough if you are baptized in the Holy Spirit!! I am not trying to be too critical but I see all this stuff coming out of the church that dosen't really belong and the church is so confused and I hope we all know who the author of confusion is, right? That is because in the pulpit we are being taught religion and Jesus did not teach religion. This is the result on relying on our own understanding and it has driven us apart. I have a firm foundation with my Lord and I know I am saved, knowing about geographics and all that other stuff does not get me any closer to my Lord that letting the Spirit of God show me His geographics. When I read the Word I actually try and visualize what was going on I do not just read the bible I reeeead the bible and let HIM guide me.

Nah, no offense taken I agree that study for study's sake with no visible fruit, really defeats the purpose of learning the Word of God. I think it goes without saying that we are expected to bear fruit for the Kingdom of God. Also, we are not in anyway, taking away from the role of the Holy Spirit as our teacher and guide. Paul commanded Timothy in 2 Tim. 2:15, to be diligent, to be earnest to show himself approved before God as a workman that does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the Word of Truth. How does one rightly divide (handle with skill, and proficiency) the Word of God? This is as much an intellectual process as it is a spiritual one. Notice the connection with with work. We are "workmen." We are labourers together in the fields and vineyards of the Lord, and those workmen who set about their tasks with diligence and industry, will not be ashamed, but will stand approved before the Lord. The word for approved as used in this verse refers to someone who has been proven; the word picture would be akin to metals that have been tested by fire and purified. This is all wrapped up in rightly dividing the Word of truth. Rightly dividing the Word of Truth... have you ever seen a set of blueprints for a large construction site? I am glad that the there are guys who can read the blueprints and know what they are looking at, because it makes no sense to me. The symbols and and notations and many of the terms are completely foreign to me. I am definitely NOT a guy who can "rightly divide" construction blue prints. Yet, it is the ability of trained men who can read those prints that determines the correct location of pipes, wiring and electrical outlets, air ducts, weight-bearing walls, and so forth. Can you imagine the disaster if they failed to study the details of the blueprints, and everybody just started sticking stuff where they thought it should go? The same applies to the Chrisitan life. Study is not about puffing ourselves up, and being proud of our knowledge, but we have to know and understand the directions in order to properly apply the principles of the Word of God. Can you imagine what would happen if people did not recognize figures of speech when Jesus says, "If your right hand causes you sin, cut it off?" What if people started running their arms across a band-saw and severing off their hands? Who would want to join the Kingdom of the physically maimed? The irony is that while we seem to treat biblical hermeneutics as something only for scholars, we use hermeneutics everyday in our regular lives. If you go to a bookstore or library, naturally, you would not read a book of sonnets by Shakespeare in the same way you would read a biography on Martin Luther King, Jr. You would also shift gears when you go over to the recipe section, and start leafing through cookbooks. Hermeneutics allow us to recognize the different literary types in the Bible and to treat them accordingly. In the Bible we have prophecy, prose, poetry, psalms, parables, proverbs, short-stories and other narratives, etc. We don't treat prophecies like parables, we don't treat a proverb like a prophecy. Most of the Bible can be divided into prescriptive or descriptive forms. In other words, we are either receiving doctrinal instruction, or we are reading a description of a particular event in history. On a basic level, we all use hermeneutics, but there is more to it, and the more we learn, the better we can live out the truth of Scripture in our daily lives. Shiloh I want to thank for your kind heart. Also for taking the time to speak to mine. I have totally relied on the Holy Spirit for understanding of the word and I see I was very critical instead of recieving something the Lord is trying to show me. I have for so long have had a burden for the unity of the church and I believe we are divided mainly because religion has led us astray in many causes and it breaks my heart. I guess I was taking all this head knowlegde as another avenue for some to think they have all the answers and everyone better agree kind of thing. So again I apologize and I will be slower at my response as I usually am. Thanks

Hermeneutics provide necessary boundaries to biblical interpretation. Anyone can say, "The Holy Spirit told me..." I have seen really sloppy theology blamed on the Holy Spirit. It is interesting that people like you read the Bible, yet it was the very people you seem to hold in contempt, that God used to bring you the Bible in your language. It was learned men (the ones with alphabet behind their names) that studied and prepared themselves, and became instruments in the Lord's hands to bring the Word of God not only to the English speaking world, but in over 200 other languages all over the world. It shows how such anti-intellectualism" is really irrational to say the least, that most Christians who belittle those who spend their lives in biblical scholarship, continue to partake of the fruit of that scholarship on a daily basis. They condemn scholarship, but will still refer to their Strong's concordance, their Vine's Greek Dictionary, and their Smith's Bible Dictionary. It shows a great deal of internal inconsistency in their position. It is also extremely inapproiate of you to assume that those who who are true scholars are somehow not relying on the Holy Spirit. Where do you find the right to paint them all with such a broad brush? Sorry for being so critical. I am not a scholar and not schooled like some here on the boards, but I am slammed all the time because I'm not, not by name mind you but am put into a class of sorts. I was just trying to say this is the way I learn is through the Holy Spirit. I do own other books other than just the concordance. I guess I allowed my temper to rise. I would really like to see the church to be able to come together and somehow realize that it is not about how much your brain can digest but it's about fruit. It is all about our Lord. If we are walking in th spirit you know when it is something someone recieved of the Spirit. I guess I have said enough here sorry if I offended you not my intention.

Studying the bible is getting with the Lord and allowing the Holy Spirit to guide to an understanding. Here it seems that some believe putting titles on their names and telling everyone what they should believe what the word is saying is truth. Well I will rely on the Spirit of my Father thank you. You all who want to study the Word of God and put the alphabet behind your name and try and tell what the Spirit of the Lord is saying SORRY NO GO!

Of course not why bother in asking this kind of question?

Our laws have gotten neutral only in the last 50 years or so maybe more but when I was young even divorce was not a good thing so it is not the norm the way the laws are written today, so I would adhere to what the Word of God says not what man has decided is OK. The bible shows us Jewish marriages and how even Joseph and Mary where espoused to each other. Yes it is supposed to be a legal and public thing just like we are not to be ashamed to say we belong to Jesus!!!