Nevin

Maybe this will make sense to you - the Lord is never on (your) time ...but He is never Late

And the scary thing is that more of this is to come. The world is going to get worse before it gets better. This is truly scary for the nonbeliever but should be a reminder to the rest fo us to stick to a striaght and narrow path

The nonsense on TV is shocking - they are rated but should not even be allowed. Even in South Africa an emerging country we are exposed to alot of filth - i wish there was some way we could stop this. I am not even talking cable - this is normal television that i am talking about - there is adult content on it

brilliant i sometimes get the feeling that some just wait for the oppurtunity to prove that they are smarter and the pride issue comes in

I am sure that they guys have learned their lesson - being Christ like is nto easy for everyone - some attack the subject while others attack the person

its hurtful when they see the "christ" in these people that are committing these unbelievable acts yet fail to see the "Christ" in the true believer and follower his example.

Maturity comes from being able to disagree agreeably if that makes sense to you -but this is difficult when persons try to push false doctrine upon us. i will not tolerate this i know i should respond with love but i ask for forgiveness if i responded harshly to anyone

This is a sensitive case - the shepherd do not make the sheep - as your pastor is the shepherd of the flock it is his and the congregations duty to go out and preach the word - look the great commission does not only apply to pastors but the congregation also so it is up to us also to bring people to church. Now as to the church numbers dwindling you now the same thing happened to TD Jakes church when he initially started , now the same can not be said of your church because the reasons could differ but the church is the body of Christ and imagine what would happen if you were missing an arm or a leg - (in other words what would you do if members of your church stopped coming to church would you go to counsel them or leave it to the pastor) - Now coming to your other point about the pastor making you feel guilty there are two ways to look at this - when the Holy Spirit convicts someone doing either wrong or not doing enough it is up to us to correct our inadequacies. But on the other hand if you have a pastor that is making people feel "gulity" by his own flesh and not the prompting of the Holy Spirit in him then that is wrong. Pastors do not have an easy job - you see the issue is that they have been appointed by God and have a difficult mandate to fulfill. Pray to the Holy Spirit for Discernment - if it is not of God reject it because a good idea may not be a God idea

I registered under the name Servant of Jesus i have posted already - i can not feel any use in debating with these people - they are so turned off by God and Christians it is crazy

God is not limited you understand that thus you can not conceptualize God in terms of atoms etc, He is spirit, He is infinite if one tired to compare Him to atoms you would be limiting Him.

well in the south african newspapers it said that he targeted the females because he had unholy desires and wished to molest them - the police found proof of this on the shooters person i do not wish to mention exactly what but it was a lubricant - is all i will mention. He also confessed to having molested two other girls related to him on suicide notes found . What i do not understand is his wifes comments that he was a loving husband to her daughter if i was her i would check her daughter medically.

It's not a sin to sell books, it's not a sin to get rich if you come by it honestly. It is a sin to request that your followers make you rich. Hi guys sorry been on leave for two days anyway yes i firmly agree with the sentiments above in that we can sell books that are based on the biblical principles and get wealthy but what do you mean when you say "It is a sin to request that your followers make you rich" i do not understand this please explain

You are right but about me just telling the truth to get a massage but it would last llonger the more i complain

That is a beautiful experience thanks for sharing

Deut 20:19 - This was a promise given to national Israel, not every Christian. Furthermore it does not mean that there would not be poor among the Children of Israel. It simply means that God is calling upon all Israel to heed his commands that as a nation they will prosper when the nation chooses to obey the Lord Prov. 22:4 - So EVERYONE who is poor is in that condition because they are not honoring God? Is that how you are applying this verse? If so, you need to learn how to interpret Scripture, because your hermeneutics are horrible. A proverb is a general truth. It is not a promise. You are treating the proverb as a dogmatic promise made to every person. This is proverb is not guaranteeing that every believer will be wealthy and live to be 100 just because they fear the Lord. It is a general truth that is upheld by the fact that some who honor God to come into wealth and long life. Generally those who live in fear of the Lord live better lives, but not all of the time. Again i did not make mention of everyone who is poor is not honoring God - again i refer you to my previous posts which talk of alot of things that contribute towards poverty. Further when you say that my hermeneutics are horrible is this not bordering on you getting personal i am sure as a worthy watchman more is expected of you. I thought we debate the topic not the person. Further when you say brother that ,A proverb is a general truth. - what is a general truth compared to a promise...is it not the same thing as i did when i took my vows to honour and cherish my wife from this day on is that not a general truth and a promise? And when you say that - "Generally those who live in fear of the Lord live better lives, but not all of the time" do you mean that Christians that follow the bible and fear the Lord will not live good lives....that is interesting i imagined if i abided in Him He would abide in me and long life , happiness would follow me for all my days

Thank you that is what the entire meaning of this thread is serving God through your wealth.

What we are shying away from is the Prosperity, seed-faith doctrine. Would you like to explain this doctrine because my belief is that if i have a need i will sow a seed, if i have extra i give of what i have, i believe in tithing (10%) and this tithing covers my other 90% and i belive in offering , i believe that when i give i should do it with no thought of recieving , i believe that the wealth of the wicked belongs to Gods people, i belive that Gods people are chosen from birth to live abundant lives not just making ends meet - but the choices we make cause poverty in our lives. So is this the Prosperity , seed - faith doctrine then if it is i thank God that i am following His word!! In the Bible, seed is never money. Jesus talked about planting seed. He was talking about the word of God. The seed-faith doctrine says that money is seed, and that if you plant a fincancial seed, you will reap a finanical harvest. The Bible makes no such promises. If you read my post carefully when i said sow a seed did i mention money? A seed faith can be imparted wisdom, time , counselling and yes money. The entire premise of your threads OP was been about money. Please do not start trying to insult our intelligence. If you read my threads brother in its entirity you will see i talk about giving not only of money and this is very clear. I am sorry that you missed it my brother

Deut 30:19 "This day I call heaven and earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live" this is the choice i was talking about . And further the life that that God wants us to live Prov 22:4 "Humility and the fear of the LORD bring wealth and honor and life" ; so you see life, wealth and honor go together. That is why i say that those that are poor have made a choice.

What we are shying away from is the Prosperity, seed-faith doctrine. Would you like to explain this doctrine because my belief is that if i have a need i will sow a seed, if i have extra i give of what i have, i believe in tithing (10%) and this tithing covers my other 90% and i belive in offering , i believe that when i give i should do it with no thought of recieving , i believe that the wealth of the wicked belongs to Gods people, i belive that Gods people are chosen from birth to live abundant lives not just making ends meet - but the choices we make cause poverty in our lives. So is this the Prosperity , seed - faith doctrine then if it is i thank God that i am following His word!! In the Bible, seed is never money. Jesus talked about planting seed. He was talking about the word of God. The seed-faith doctrine says that money is seed, and that if you plant a fincancial seed, you will reap a finanical harvest. The Bible makes no such promises. If you read my post carefully when i said sow a seed did i mention money? A seed faith can be imparted wisdom, time , counselling and yes money.

Some are poor because of choices, some through no fault of their own. I've seen both. I would like to encounter those that are poor because of no fault of their own....if you trace the situation i am sure you will encounter the trace reason Nevin, there are people who are poor because their government oppresses them. They don't have the rescources to change their situation and are stuck living under a repressive regime. Their poverty is not their choice but rathe is imposed upon them as a form of persecution. There are several places all over the world where this is true. Some of the people languishing in those conditions are Christians. The how do you account for those that come out of this very same poverty - as docters, lawyers, etc? There are numerous accounts of South Africans that have negated the effects of apartheid and are succesful because of the paths / hard work and more importantly the passion in which they served Christ to get them out of this situation

What we are shying away from is the Prosperity, seed-faith doctrine. Would you like to explain this doctrine because my belief is that if i have a need i will sow a seed , if i have extra i give of what i have, i believe in tithing (10%) and this tithing covers my other 90% and i belive in offering , i believe that when i give i should do it with no thought of recieving , i believe that the wealth of the wicked belongs to Gods people, i belive that Gods people are chosen from birth to live abundant lives not just making ends meet - but the choices we make cause poverty in our lives. So is this the Prosperity , seed - faith doctrine then if it is i thank God that i am following His word!!

Some are poor because of choices, some through no fault of their own. I've seen both. I would like to encounter those that are poor because of no fault of their own....if you trace the situation i am sure you will encounter the trace reason

I have had a prophetess from Dubai come to my home and she says that when she walks she sometimes see Jesus's shadow walking with her and has had occasion when she is walking in a mall (there were witnesses to her falling) and get slain in the spirit directly after an encounter like this, i have heard of people feeling Jesus brush past them and geting slain in the spirit immediately thereafter. Whats your comments has anyone had an experience like this. I have personal experiences but let me hear yours

Sometimes they are poor because they have no money, and that through no fault of their own. This state of affairs is the constant concern of the Old and New Testaments. I disagree with you Pointer people are poor becasue of the choice they are making. If the bible is clearly understood and read in it's entireity you will find that God gives us the tools to make money.....come on the simple principal of give and it shall be given unto ...needs to be followed . Read my previous notes - God has given us the ability to make money - it is our tool as believers - those people that are poor are that way and there are biblical explainations for their poverty ....its could be sins of the father, not a generous spirit, mismanagement of what God has given , excessive lifestyles, habits that are not conforming with Gods words, not tithing, illegal practises / choices i could go on!!

Christians should not desire to be rich no - they should desire closeness and completeness with God - All i am saying that it is not God's intention that we be poor - but at the same time we should not love money Job 36:18 "Be careful that no one entices you by riches; do not let a large bribe turn you aside". I must not be misunderstood again here all i am saying is that we should be advertising the riches in our life as that from Christ ( this is a good family life, peace, security and money ) Money buys you a good home, money buys you security money allows a church to be built, so money allows you a church to fellowship in. I get so frustrated when Christians shy away from the money issue. The love of money is an evil not money. Money allows missonaries to go to the far reaches of the earth, money allows us to communicate on this site, money allows us to bulid hospitals , churches and schools. Money is spoken of so many times in the bible and why - it needs to be understood. Money is a tool in the hands of the true believer, the true giver , thus the true Christian. Go to someone that is is dire need and go pray with them - they will then ask you is your prayer going to provide a meal for my children tonight or your seed offering (this could be food or money and anyway you have to have money to buy the food.)