Vickilynn

Then kindly show evidence of that. Anybody can do a word search. Unless you can link a scripture with the Sabbath in it to a loss of salvation, all you are doing is judging, AND pedaling a personal opinion. Show the scriptural basis for your claims. The scripture you gave earlier isn't it. It isn't even close. If a person says that they believe in keeping the 10 commandments but doesn't keep the 4th, they are not truly keeping all of the commandments. Shalom JemDude, Sez you. Please prove it. The Scriptures do not state that not keeping the Sabbath affects one's salvation.

I agree. OTOH?? Shalom Marnie, OTOH = On The Other Hand thanks for the explanantion of the shorthand, that would have kept me up for awhile Shalom David, Try this: http://www.netlingo.com/emailsh.cfm

Shalom, Really? That's not what it says. Again, that is your interpretation and opinion, which you are entitled to. However, since it is NOT written that way, you cannot insist that someone who doesn't see it YOUR way is in sin. He didn't SAY the Law. He said His teachings and His commandments. And so, yes it is IS necessary for Him to make the Sabbath a salvation issue. He didn't, you are. Again, your opinion and interpretation. Prove it please.

I agree. OTOH?? Shalom Marnie, OTOH = On The Other Hand

Shalom, Your interpretation and opinion. I don't see where not keeping the Sabbath is a sin stated any place. You'll have to do better than opinion.

Shalom, Jesus' teaching and commands: http://www.hallvworthington.com/Scripture_...g/commands.html * Produce fruit in keeping with repentance. Mat 3:8-10 * Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is near." Mat 4:17 (think differently; change your mind, regretting your sins and changing your conduct) * I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish. Luke 13:3 * Believe in the light, that ye may be the children of light. John 12:36 * Do not resist an evil person. * If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. * And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. * If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. * Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you. Mat 5:38-42 * Love your enemies * pray for those who persecute you, * Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect. Mat 5:43-48 * But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. anyone who says, You fool! will be in danger of the fire of hell. If your brother has something against you, don't offer a gift on the altar. First go and be reconciled to your brother; then come and offer your gift. Mat 5:21-25 * anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. Mat 5:28 * So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you Mat 7:12 * Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. Love your neighbor as yourself. Mat 22:36-40 * If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out. And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than to have two feet and be thrown into hell. And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell. Mark 9:42-47 (He doesn't want us to maim ourselves. He is only illustrating how serious sin is. Jesus is desperately trying to tell us that to enter the Kingdom and escape Hell, sin is not allowed, period. He knew false prophets with false gospels promising freedom to continue to sin would arise after he left. Changes in our heart through the missing cross to purity can take away the desire of the hand, foot, and eye to cause us to sin. * Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! You make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within are full of extortion and excess. You are blind, first cleanse the inside of the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also. You are like whitewashed tombs, outwardly beautiful, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness. So you also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within you are full of hypocrisy and iniquity. Mat 23:25-28 * As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent. Rev 3:19 * Beware ye of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy. For there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; neither hid, that shall not be known. Luke 12:1-2. [Hypocrisy is talking about God, not conduct and conversation of a godly manner. Pretending to be a godly person, while practicing: greed, lying, pornography, drunkenness, slander, rage, lusts, etc. He tells us any hypocrisy will eventually exposed and shamed.] * You have forsaken your first love. Remember the height from which you have fallen! Repent and do the things you did at first. If you do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place. Rev. 2:4-5 * Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer. I tell you, the devil will put some of you in prison to test you, and you will suffer persecution for ten days. Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you the crown of life. Rev 2:10 * You have people there who hold to the teaching of Balaam, who taught Balak to entice the Israelites to sin .. by committing sexual immorality...Repent therefore! Otherwise, I will soon come to you and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth. Rev 2:14,16 * Only hold on to what you have until I come. To him who overcomes and does my will to the end, I will give authority over the nations. Rev 2:25-6 * Rouse yourselves and keep awake, and strengthen and invigorate what remains and is on the point of dying; for I have not found a thing that you have done meeting the requirements of My God or perfect in His sight. So call to mind the lessons you received and heard; continually lay them to heart and obey them, and repent.Rev 3:2-3 * Do not swear at all: either by heaven, or by the earth, or by Jerusalem. Do not swear by your head, for you cannot make even one hair white or black. let your Yes be Yes, and your No, No; anything beyond this comes from the evil one. Mat 5:34-37 * Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it. Mat 7:13-14 * Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them. Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. (The fruit of the Spirit is love, peace, joy, self-control, kindness, faith, goodness, and gentleness; this involves ridding yourself of sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; greed, hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. Gal 5:19-23.) Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles? Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!' Mat 7:15-23 * whatever they tell you to observe, that observe and do, but do not do according to their works; for they say, and do not do. For they bind heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on men

Shalom Jemdude, You can think whatever you want, even though you've been told the truth of what I'm saying. I find that very telling. Please PROVE your position by Scripture that keeping the Sabbath is essential to our salvation. Otherwise this is your opinion only and are in no position to call anything a sin. Matthew 19:17 So He said to him,

Shalom, There is a difference in denominationalISM and belonging to a denomination, IMHO. If people look to their denomination to save them and don't emphasize a personal, individual relationship with Jesus, being born-again, filled with the Holy Spirit and walking in His ways. That is the problem. OTOH, denoms are just sub-groups of the Body that gather according to similar beliefs.

Shalom Smalcald, Amen, as do I.

Shalom Jemdude, You can think whatever you want, even though you've been told the truth of what I'm saying. I find that very telling. Please PROVE your position by Scripture that keeping the Sabbath is essential to our salvation. Otherwise this is your opinion only and are in no position to call anything a sin.

Shalom, Our pastor finished up a 4-week sermon topic entitled "One Second After You Die." with an invitation to accept Jesus and be with Him forever.

The Bible says that grace is not a license to sin, but that seems to be what your position supports. Feel free to correct me if I'm misunderstanding you. Shalom Jemdude, Of course you're misunderstanding. I have never, any place advocated someone to willingly sin, and grace is not a license to sin, as you well know. How about dealing with what I HAVE said (the Scriptures) instead of inventing something I haven't said? Please go back and read the posts where the Scriptures state that we are saved by faith through grace and it is not our works. Please PROVE your position by Scripture that keeping the Sabbath is essential to our salvation.

Shalom, Then where does the "salvation" play into that? You stated that keeping the Sabbath is essential to our salvation. The Scriptures say we are not saved by our works.

Shalom David, Please go back to post #5 in this thread, I posted several Scriptural commands to love everyone with the love of Jesus.

Shalom, Back to this wonderful topic... Suzanne, what advice would you give women who have NOT been in G-dly order in their home and yet are now convicted this is G-d's righteous ways. How do they UNDO the years of rebellion and disobedience and start walking in submission and in G-d's order. How would you help them to start?

Shalom Yahsway, Amen. If salvation were attained by keeping the Sabbath, Jesus would not have come and died for us.

Shalom Jemdude, That aside, when you post that keeping the Sabbath is what saves us, this goes against Scripture as I posted. This is a dangerous doctrine for it denies the need for Jesus as our Savior.

Shalom Kat, Jemdude says that keeping the Sabbath SAVES us. This then negates the need for a Savior. And I'll state the Scriptures again that it is not keeping the Sabbath that saves us, but rather our faith through G-d's grace: Ephesians 2: 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Shalom, Good words. Sometimes people come in with a chip on their shoulders and blast everyone for the conviction going on in their own hearts.

Jesus commanded that we love all people...this does not mean however, that we like them or what they do...but we must love them...and act towards them with Godly Compassion and out of a heart of Charity towards all mankind...this does not mean we must like them or what they do...we should only hate or dislike what they do and the sin nature of their lives, but yes we are to love all people as God loves them ! Shalom Mikeyjay, AMEN!!

Shalom Jackie, Please, read the Scriptures I posted, they will help you. If the L-rd showed you that your intentions were not pure, then He will help you make them pure. When HE shows you something wrong in your life, ask HIM to change it, and then walk in it. I encourage you to walk in the love and allow the L-rd to change your heart, rather than not walk in it and micro-analyze it. G-d can use a moving ship more than one who is dry-docked. Try walking out His love and asking Him to make your motives pure. He will.

Shalom Jemdude, #3. No, keeping the weekly Sabbath is not essential to ones salvation, as already has been posted. We are saved by grace through faith, not by keeping the Sabbath. None of the Jews ever were saved by keeping the Sabbath and neither are we. The case you are making negates the need for Jesus to be our Savior if all we had to do was keep the Sabbath. I find that very distasteful. It belittles the purpose of the Messiah, His Work, His Sacrifice and all that He did for us. If we could be saved by keeping the Sabbath, we have no need for the Son of G-d to have died for us. Someone should have told Him that before He suffered and died for each of us. The Scriptures are clear that faith in the Messiah and His salvation, believing and confessing that He is the Son of G-d (roman 10:9-10) is the way of salvation, not by keeping the Sabbath. You are preaching a false doctrine. No, I refuse to pray that people will be deceived into thinking that keeping the Sabbath will commend them to G-d, save them in any way shape or form, for that teaching goes against the Scriptures and demeans my Savior who died on the Cross to save me. That is the problem with your message, it undermines the need for our Savior. Anyone can "keep" the Sabbath and be saved? Really? Then why do we need Jesus? Why did He have to come suffer and die? No one need have faith in the Messiah? No one need repent of their sins? No one need believe in their heart and confess with their mouth that Jesus is the Son of G-d and the Father raised Him from the dead? That goes against what the Scriptures say and I will stand for the Scriptures over man's ways.

Shalom Jemdude. 2) In the context of my Shabbat blessing to you, the Scriptures I posted are an example of grace. We are to extend grace to the beliefs of others concerning days and foods. I'm sad that you missed the grace in the post and chose to make it an argument, but the Scripture stands valid as an example of how Believers in the Messiah are to behave towards others with differing beliefs. I personally DO believe Romans 14 applies to the weekly Sabbath, the special Sabbaths, all G-d's Holy days and eating certain foods. I believe Romans 14 speaks of grace in differing views of these works, for they do not affect our salvation. And here is another: Romans 14: 10Why do you pass judgment on your brother? Or you, why do you despise your brother? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God; 11for it is written, "As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God." 12So then each of us will give an account of himself to God. And another: Romans 14 16 So do not let what you regard as good be spoken of as evil. 17For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking but of righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. 18Whoever thus serves Christ is acceptable to God and approved by men. 19So then let us pursue what makes for peace and for mutual upbuilding.

Shabbat Shalom to you too Vickilynn. We both agree that Saturday is the Sabbath, but disagree on whether it is a salvation issue. Shalom JemDude, And I was offering something other than a debate, focusing on what we both agree on and offering a blessing in the L-rd, yet you refuse the offering of grace and love from your sister to argue. OK. I'll respond in like. 1) Yes, we disagree that the Sabbath is a salvation issue because the Scriptures plainly state that our WORKS do not save us. Salvation is a free gift from G-d. It is by His grace and through faith in the Messiah that we are saved, not by observing any works. Ephesians 2: 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. And FYI, NO ONE was ever saved by keeping the Sabbath or any part of the Law. Salvation has always been about faith, not works. So, the Jews were not saved by keeping the Sabbath and neither are we. Romans 3 20For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin. Romans 3: 21But now the righteousness of God) has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it

Shabbat Shalom to you too Vickilynn. We both agree that Saturday is the Sabbath, but disagree on whether it is a salvation issue. First of all, I do not believe that Romans 14:5 is referring to the Sabbath but to man-made arrangements. A good example is whether or not to have mid-week prayer meeting on a Wednesday or Thursday. The Sabbath is not a day that "one person esteems as better than another" or a man-made day, but a day that God Himself set aside for us. Is it essential to a person's salvation? Yes it is. For example, if a Christian kept all the commandments except that he worshipped Thor in addition to God, is that person's salvation going to be affected? Yes it would be. The problem with your position is that it makes the Sabbath into an optional teaching instead of a compulsory one. However, I do know that there are many people who are breaking the Sabbath out of ignorance. We need to pray for those people that they will discover the Sabbath truth and follow it and discover how great keeping the Sabbath day really is. Shalom Jemdude, I was simply sharing my heartfelt blessings for the Sabbath for you and your family and your threw it back in my face in favor of argument and pushing your debate. WOW, that's cold dude. Well, my blessing was sincere even though you did not receive it. G-d bless you anyway. BTW, The question of this thread was WHEN is the Sabbath. Shalom to you anyway.