Johni

Thanks Lady C, I also had always heard that Luke's geneology was that of Mary. Just wondering if anyone else had heard of the other thought on that. I guess what I'm wondering about the descendants of David who are not listed. Leaving them out does make for 14 generations but adding them (as the OT lists do) its more than 14 generations. So are several sets of them brothers instead of father-son?? And Matthew does not count Athalia (the evil Queen who took over for about six years) probably because the rightful king was alive but just in hiding (the boy king Joash (Jehoash). This is the list given in Matthew compared with the lists given in II Chron chapeter 3 and also mentioned in IIKings 10 and other passages in the OT. Matthew: ------------------- OT Solomon -------- -- Solomon Rehoboam -------- -- Rehoboam Abijah ----------- Abijah Asa -------- -- Asa Jehoshaphat ---------- Jehoshaphat Joram (Jehoram) -------- -- Jehoram -- --- - --------- Ahaziah ------ ---------- Joash ------ ----------- Amaziah Azariah (Uzziah) ----------- Azariah (Uzziah) Jotham ----------- Jotham Ahaz ----------- Ahaz Hezekiah ----------- Hezekiah Manasseh ----------- Manasseh Amon ----------- Amon Josiah ----------- Josiah ------- ----------- Jehoahaz (king for 3 months--brother of Jeconiah??) Jeconiah ---------- Jehoiachim (Jeconiah??) Anyone know why Ahaziah, Joash, and Amaziah are not mentioned in Matthew ? I guess it seem trivial but since Matthew made a point of saying that there are 3 sets of 14 generations I am trying to figure out the significance and why the 3 particular kings are left out. I had also heard that Joash was the brother of Ahaziah so that means 16 generations instead of 17 BUT its still more than the 14 generations that Matthew gives. (I was trying to line up the Matthew names across from the OT names but the site will not let me do it very well)

I'm hoping someone here can help me understand something about the generations list given in Matthew. Its kind of a two part question. 1. Matthew Chapter One gives a geneology of Christ. It ends by saying that all the gernerations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations, from David to the captivity in Babylon are fourteen generations and from the captivity in Babylon to Christ are fourteen generations. If you go back to the OT and actually count the people involved it is actually more like seventeen names given from David to the carrying away into Babylon. Three of the kings are left out of the Matthew account. Is there any known explanation for this? I had heard that two of the kings were actually brothers (not father-son) so that made them the same generation. But that does not appear to me to actually eplain the 3 missing names. Plus even if one set are brothers it does not account for all three missing names. I am coming at this question from the standpoint of belief that the Bible is inspired and where it is translated accurately we can have complete confidence in what it says. Plus I know that Matthew was about the first gospel written and if the geneology given had been different from what Jewish people of that day knew to be true, then Matthew would have been challenged by the Jewish scholars of that day. 2.My other question on the geneology has to do with both the Matthew list and the geneology in Luke. I had always been told that the Luke geneology is tracing the line of Christ through Mary's ancestors. The Kingly descent is through Joseph (to fulfill the legalities) but the actual line is through Mary thus by-passing Solomon and his offspring. I recently heard a Messianic Jewish man saying that the Matthew geneology is actually Mary's line. That her father was also named Joseph and if you count from the captivity in Babylon down to this particular Joseph and add Jesus after that you have your fourteenth generation. Which is true if you count them out. In fact this is what got me looking at the generations and going back to the OT to actually count them out and then finding that there are more than fourteen from David to the carrying away to Babylon. To conclude, I'm hoping someone has heard or read of an explanation for the missing names in the past and will share that with me. also wondering if anyone else had heard that the Matthew geneology is actually Mary's and what they think of that?? Thanks for any responses!

I think you are being a great help to her and I am very much in favor of assisting someone to help themself. No doubt I would have benefitted from having someone do the same for me back when I was being so disfunctional! Ladypeartree, I hope you did not think I was disagreeing with what you had said. I wasn't at all. I was just remembering my feelings from that brief time in my life when I felt so overwhelmed. Honestly if there had been some lady in my life who could have taken the roll that peacesfire is taking for this one--I would have been much better off. Part of my problem was thinking I either had to do it all (which seemed impossible at the time) or just not trying to do it at all. I agree that messy and filthy are not the same thing. I probably did have some times when my house was more than just messy but we did not have feces on the floor either so guess it was not actually unhealthy most of the time. I don't regret the awful housekeeping of those years but I do regret the times I was not as patient and loving as I should have been as a mom.

This post brings back memories that are hard to deal with even now. I had 3 little boys, stairsteps in age. For 5 straight years I had at least one in diapers and twice it overlapped where I had two in diapers during that time period. My middle son was very difficult to potty train in a similar way. He didn't wet the bed or his clothes, but he would mess his pants. In fact, when he started to school I had to send spare clothes with him. Had him to the doctor etc...but no problem could be found. Also I could not keep up with the house when my kids were preschoolers. I lived a long ways from any of my family and my husband was trying to get a business off the ground so he really was no help at home. I think I nearly had a nervous breakdown during this time but I knew if I really LOST IT my family would be in big trouble. The house was a disaster, it was so bad it seemed like there was no point in trying. I was a Christian but I would not have dared had anyone over from the church. Once the phone man had to come inside the house and I was mortified but I didn't let it show or even apologize for the state of my house so he probably thought I didn't care. I survived two of those years just hanging on by my toenails. I agree that people need to do what they can for themselves but I also know what it is to feel like the house is a hopeless situation and to be so depressed that you give up making the attempts. My 3 boys were very active and strong-willed. Not a passive one int he bunch and I literally lost it with them a few times. I've thrown water on them, hit them with a electrical cord (believe me when I say spats with my hand or even a belt did not phase one of them). I've sat and cried with them and yelled at them and slapped them. These are things my parents NEVER did to me. I just had a couple of years when I was so out of my depth that I couldn't see how it would ever get better. I'm just saying all this to say moms of little kids need support so badly. We had a very tight financial situation during that time and I could not afford to have any help. As I said, my husband was gone almost all the time. Well, it did get better! I finally pulled myself up by the boot straps and found a friend in my neighborhood who was being just as disfunctional as me but we joined forces for moral support. She had one little girl who was two and after her story about how difficult her labor and delivery was I learned that she was not even the little girls mom, but the stepmom! (told you she was disfunctional!) Still it helped to have a shoulder to cry on. By the way, I left my three sons with a young women one day (she had one small child). About the only outing I can remember taking, and when I picked them up she was literally in tears. It was literally that bad, you can't make this stuff up! Well, after the worst two years were over, several things helped make the change for the better...the boys got older, I got a little better organized, my husband became more helpful at home, I started reading some things that gave me good information on dealing with my little ones in a better way. I think it was about then that I found Dr Dobson's book on the raising kids. By the time the boys were all in grade school I think we were having fun as a family and enjoying each other. My house was still pretty messy at times but not quite so far gone and seemed like I could deal with it better. Maybe I was maturing too. I had several women from the church scold me about my kids. One lady told me off because my 4 year old got into her purse but she was the one who was always giving him gum out of her purse so he just thought thats where the gum was! And some others made remarks about how rowdy my boys were etc. One woman even said to me "whats the matter, don't you believe in birth control?" I would say the church was no help at all to me during that time except for one sweet lady. She was in her 50's and had no children of her own. She was so sweet that it almost makes me cry to think of her. always patient, always smiling, always encouraging. She gave me things, offered encouragement and continued to tell me what a beautiful family I had. Always noticing good things about my boys and saying things like 'he is so clever for his age' or 'he looks so cute in that outfit' just always positive... Well my boys have done well, they were all potty trained by high school Okay, before then! they are all college educated and one has a doctorate in pharmacy. They are wonderful Christain men with lovely families of their own now and they even still love their mom. How amazing! I just wanted to share this because I know young moms can be overwhelmed. Not to mention so many who are single moms. Love all you moms, and moms helpers. Bless you all and may the Lord reward you for all you do!

I like many of the ones already mentioned and wrote down a few that were suggested so I got some ideas too. I'm a bookworm too My recommendations are any thing written by Francine Rivers or Jamie Langston Taylor. Both are incredible authors although very different in style.

thankyou nebula, in fact the Ark was in Shiloh for over 300 years but during that time period it seems that the custom was to go there yearly (for the people who did not live there). David did move the Ark to Jerusalem and apparently the people, or at least the men, began coming to Jerusalem to celebrate the Feasts/Holy Days. They came at Passover, Pentecost and Tabernacles. I am wondering if there was anything anyone knows of in the scripture or oral tradition that changed them from going once a year to Shiloh to 3 times a year to Jerusalem. I guess thats really the point. One reason I'm wondering is to do with the Fall Feasts being celebrated at Engedi by a fairly large group this fall. It may be since the Ark of the presence is no longer in Jerusalem...it does not matter.

Thank you for your responses! EricH, if I am understanding what you said, then the Israeli people did not go up to Jerusalem to celebrate the Feasts until after Solomon built the temple? I know David did not author all the psalms but the Psalms to include the Psalms of Ascent which (I believe) were sung by the people as they ascended to Jerusalem for the feasts. So it seems like going to Jerusalem 3 times a year to celebrate certain Feasts was already going on before the Temple was built. Beta, Leviticus 23 is a great passage on describing the Feasts but does not give any command about doing the celebrating in any certain place as far as I can tell. I think there is a promise in the scripture that when the men went up to celebrate these feasts in Jerusalem that the Lord would protect the land and families they left behind. I guess I just need to study this with a concordance or Strongs a bit more. When the prophet Samuel's mother went with her husband to Shiloh to the House of the Lord where Eli and his sons were presiding over the ark (I assume) the scripture says that Samuel's father went up to Shiloh once a year. It also says he took all his house with him and the scripture does note that his wives went with him. I'm just trying to understand when it was that a yearly visit to the House of the Lord (where the Ark of the Covenant was) became a three times a year visit to Jerusalem for mostly the men. I admit to just enjoying the history of the early days of Israel and just learning about how various customs etc came about. Another reason is that I am considering going on a trip to Israel the coincides with the Fall Feasts and I think the gathering is going to be somewhere other than Jerusalem, so I was wondering about that. I think its going to be at Engedi.

This may have been addressed in the past (I'm sure it has) but I have not been here long. I am studying a bit about the Biblical Feasts and couple of questions have come up. I actually heard this one addressed but did not fully understand the answer so I'm turning to the folk here to ask. There were three times a year when the men of Israel were to go up to Jerusalem for feast days (from what I understand). However, the Biblical Feasts were given in Numbers and it was quite some time after that before Jerusalem was actually a city under the control of Israel. It was a Jebusite city until David conquored it. Where did the Hebrew men of the days of Judges through Saul's kingdom celebrate the feasts? I'm wondering if they simply celebrated in their home villages or was there some other city where they all gathered. Is there a scripture that mentions this or would it be oral tradition?

Irene, I think you are right on! Like many here I have seen programs and read books that I could tell, even at the time, were immoral. Yes, I also made a decision not to view or read any of that stuff any more. The interesting thing is, the closer you get to Jesus the more your tastes in literature change! I'm speaking as a confirmed bookworm. In fact, just last week I bought a book by a good author and began to read it. I threw it out after the first chapter. Not because it had bad language or such, but just because the story seemed irrelavent. It had no grand theme. Even in fiction now I want to read something that has that grand theme---you know, that everlasting theme!

Hupo, thanks for acknowledging the post. I know you are blessed to live in such a beautiful place! It must have been a favorite of Jesus too since he spent so much time there!

Of course Christians should be good stewards of the environment. It seems that we are in a natural phase of warming. These have occured before in history and there were not large amounts of fossil fuels or hydrocarbons etc being sent into the atmosphere at those times. A few years ago there were dire warnings of another ice age. So the climate changes...seems like it always has. One scientific study says that even if everyone followed the Kyoto protcols (and most never will) that it would only change the average temperature less than a degree over the next 50 years! But it would cause lots of economic problems for the developed countries whereas China gets a free ride. If I read the report right, hardly any who signed the Kyoto agreement have actually cut back like they agreed to.

Not to go too far off the topic. Acutally I have never been to Israel but would like to go some day. However I was particularly wanting to tell Hupo that I think the northern Galilee is so beautiful! I have been watching the teaching film series by Focus on the Family "That the World May Know" . Quite a bit of it is filmed in the area of the Galilee and especially north of Galilee and I had never realized just how lovely the area is prior to this. After that I had gone on-line and found a screen saver that is an arial view of the shorline of Galilee with a wonderful crazy quilt pattern of fields and a town in the distance. It is so pretty. Everyone who comes into my office and sees it asks me "where is that?" . My clue is 'thats the only body of water in the world that has been walked on' . Some of them get it, and some have the blankest look and have to be t-o-l-d.!! Anyway, just wanted to say---lovely place!

I imagine Israel would want to be careful in regards to immigration, all the while trying to get as many Jewish people brought in from the nations as possible. I think I read that the Israeli Jewish population are not having as many children as the Arab Israeli population so they will eventually be voted out of power in their own nation if they do not bring more Jewish people in. But maybe that was an exaggeration, I'm not sure.

Yahsway, didn't the Israelites also celebrate the New Moon even if there was not appointed feast day at that time? The New Moon is mentioned a number of times in scripture and I had the idea that it was observed in some way even if an Appointed Feast time was not associated with it.

Well, at least with the name 'conservapedia' its upfront that its a conservative site so---whats the problem??

Hello Akiko, The subject, in and of its self, does not really make sense but I'm trying to rack up posts so thought I would add a comment. I don't think the answer would be YES to the question you posed. The fact that God is Spirit and is of a totally different nature from a "rock" means that asking such a question is not logical. To move or lift an object, if done by a physical being, would require muscle, energy etc... a Spirit being would not use those sorts of abilities in any task. Since we don't really know how a Spirit being does physical tasks (but we know they can) then we do not know the ways in which Spirit beings are limited (but we know they are) Then to consider how God, who declares that He is Spirit, could have any limitations is not understandable to us. Other than what He has chosen to tell us about His own Being, we have no knowledge.