Isaiah 6:8

That is way to deep of a statement....

Isaiah, nowhere is there any mention of them being born again. The brother is a leader but is he born again? You must have missed this post You see, we can not judge if they are truly "Born Again" only God knows. But we can know that they have accepted Jesus, and declared it with there mouth. That's what they did. You are right. There is a difference, He was clear that these were the latter Born again believers. Even Paul said he struggled with sin As you see committing a sin does not make you unsaved. Here is what you missed. what I hi-lighted above was this. He did not expel them for having an immoral relationship. He refused to marry them as the violated the terms of there agreement. No harm there. He put the out of the congregation, (I'll use your terms) not just because of the sexual sin, but because they were sowing division in the body, telling others it was okay, even newcomers, who may not have known Christ. This was his primary reason. This is Biblical and supported in scripture. If you read my whole post. I posted the testimony of a young man who was put out of YWAM for his attitude and sin, and he came back to the Lord to do great things.

Parker answered you. You pressed it. He responded again, Your pressed again. and I asked you to drop it, you did not, but brought it up twice. Thread is now closed.

I have heard on a Christian talk radio program, that most division in a Church comes from somebody on the council having a power trip. An example was given with a new pastor coming to a Church and giving some of the ideas he had. An elder said that is not the way it was going to be, I was here before you came here and I'll be here when you leave. When somebody has an attitude like that, it seem God's works were moved to the back burner, hardly very Christian like. That would be pertinent, if one did not take the steps to ensure accountability. E.Lansing stated his steps and reasoning clearly here. I had to stay away from a Church because the pastor refused to remove a drug/alcohol addict who threatened me physically, because of the "He needs church more then you do, as your walk with god is stronger then his" approach. The man I was speaking about was not repented but came up with excuses for his sin, and has not stopped. I was in that town for over a year with no real church to go to because a sinful man, who has potential to physically harm someone was not removed, even though he was unrepentant. *The man in question told me how he tried to kill someone that stole a jacket from him by running them down with his car* Is it right that a person who is walking the walk get punished because someone who is not is more sinful? Someone living in sin, unrepentant, and encouraging others in the same, and causing division in the church, should not be allowed to continue. That is the point.

But when told no, you pressed the issue. Please leave it alone.

I think those , including myself, who have stated that God indeed loves satin say it from the frame work of loving the sinner not the sin This does not mean we love Satan. He is our enemy and he is doomed. Did God love Satan at any pint in time? Yes . Does he now likely not. Dies he hate him I would say The fallen angel Satan yes. Now I have noticed people in this thread are starting to make it personal, let's steer away from that as it's an interesting topic an I would hate to shut it down due to bickering. Okay, I posted this half awake and did not post my usual amount of scripture, and I don't really understand what I was trying to get at. with the first portion, but I remember quite clearly what I was getting at the second portion. (in bold) I do not think that anyone on this board Loves Satan. Stating so comes across as an accusation. Do not bring it up again. Thanks. As for the OP. I am not sure. I know that God created Satan. At the time of Creation everything was "Good" Does this mean God loved Satan, I don't know. Does he hate Satan, that is possible as well, I am not sure. and being not sure of any of the answers I am going to bow out of this debate, but again, lets keep it from being personal or I will shut it down. Well all I was asking for was scripture to back up what you said that I highlighted in bold red, the same standard that I asked Shiloh for. Well I should have clarified, that was shooting from my hip going on 3 hours of sleep within a 40 hour period. Sorry for the confusion.

I think those , including myself, who have stated that God indeed loves satin say it from the frame work of loving the sinner not the sin This does not mean we love Satan. He is our enemy and he is doomed. Did God love Satan at any pint in time? Yes . Does he now likely not. Dies he hate him I would say The fallen angel Satan yes. Now I have noticed people in this thread are starting to make it personal, let's steer away from that as it's an interesting topic an I would hate to shut it down due to bickering. Okay, I posted this half awake and did not post my usual amount of scripture, and I don't really understand what I was trying to get at. with the first portion, but I remember quite clearly what I was getting at the second portion. (in bold) I do not think that anyone on this board Loves Satan. Stating so comes across as an accusation. Do not bring it up again. Thanks. As for the OP. I am not sure. I know that God created Satan. At the time of Creation everything was "Good" Does this mean God loved Satan, I don't know. Does he hate Satan, that is possible as well, I am not sure. and being not sure of any of the answers I am going to bow out of this debate, but again, lets keep it from being personal or I will shut it down.

No they know the Savior, they refuse to obey his commands. Big difference.

I will add to that is this. By definition the church is the Body of Christ. So an unbeliever by definition is not the Church. The function of the Church has historically been a place for believers to fellowship, grow and learn together. Not a place for the unsaved to become saved. In the Bible the place you see people saved and brought to Christ is not in the church, its outside. In the streets or person to person. I may be wrong and if so, please let me know, but I can not think of one example where a person was told to go to a church to become saved. So yes a church is for the redeemed. Now of course these days many people go to church seeking God, and are looking for answers, and yes, as a church, we need to meet this need and introduce them to Christ, but this is a secondary function. The primary function which is missed more and more often is the feeding of his Sheep. The discipleship of his people. I have left churches that while being good godly people, the only messages they preached were salvation messages. I was starving to death on milk, I needed meat. Now, back to the analogy of the Body of Christ. Non-believers are not part of the body. So lets set them aside for the moment and concentrate on people who know the Lord and believe. E Lansing has made it very clear this is who he was dealing with. They were unrepentant in their sin, flaunting it, and stirring up division in the church. They were like cancer. You see all cancer is, is the body's normal cells gone wrong. They will spread and eventually kill you. You see members like this couple are just that. They have gone wrong. They are infecting others, and if left untreated it will kill the body. E Lansing did try to speak with them first. He used the biblical standard of Matthew 18. In effect he attempted medicine first, Chemotherapy if you will. When that fails, it leaves you one choice. Cut out the infected tissue. Now here is where that illustration breaks down. With actually cancer the tissue that is cut out is destroyed and has no hope of being put back into the body. In Christ as long as we breath there is always hope. You see the scripture that backs this up is not simply one verse taken out of context, it is many full passages. Lets remember that putting a person out of fellowship is not as serious as them being killed. God killed some in the early church for deceiving the disciples . They were believers but they had openly sinned against God and were unrepentant. That is a bit more drastic than what E. did, which was the Matthew 18 example. You see the question here is did he follow the two Great commandments. Love God, Love your neighbor as yourself. Obviously he did this out a love of God. Now did he love his neighbor? I think the answer is yes. You see his neighbor was not just the ones living in sin, but the others as well. He did not do this lightly, he did not do it easily, and the fact that he worries about if he did the right thing, to me at least shows he loves them very much to do the right thing. You see if he showed no remorse, but was bragging about it, that would show no love. I have seen more then one situation like this, and the person making the decision always feels bad about doing it. You see, if you don't love a person, you have no problem getting rid of them. You see, the word discipleship has its root in the word discipline. If you are not disciplining people when out of line you are not making disciples. So, in a nutshell. Because E. Lansing followed the well established biblical president to deal with believers who were unrepentant in sin, and took the steps that Jesus outlined to remove them he did well. He protected his flock from some one who was spreading sin like a cancer, and hopefully they will one day realize there error and repent and return. I have seen people, after humbling themselves in the site of the Lord return after being removed, and God was able to do great things with them. For instance Charles"(Chad) Cobb was my roommate in 1998. The Jesus Freaks Movie, he made with others has brought healing and people to Christ. He was put out of fellowship from YWAM. Sent home early but yet, God still brought him back. So no putting people out of fellowship does not destroy, Satan does that, and people do that to themselves. Hopefully the disciplinary action will wake them up and bring them running back to the father. I will be praying that this does happen. Isaiah.

set up fire and brimstone evacuation routes?

I think those , including myself, who have stated that God indeed loves satin say it from the frame work of loving the sinner not the sin This does not mean we love Satan. He is our enemy and he is doomed. Did God love Satan at any pint in time? Yes . Does he now likely not. Dies he hate him I would say The fallen angel Satan yes. Now I have noticed people in this thread are starting to make it personal, let's steer away from that as it's an interesting topic an I would hate to shut it down due to bickering. OK Iz, but where is your scripture? On my laptop. Not feeling well trying to keep short and try for a full response when feeling better.

I think the crux of the issue is this, If you find faith in Christ you are saved be it in the middle if the desert and die with out reaching water. Water in and of itself has no magical properties. The obedience to get baptized is important but nor critical.

I think those , including myself, who have stated that God indeed loves satin say it from the frame work of loving the sinner not the sin This does not mean we love Satan. He is our enemy and he is doomed. Did God love Satan at any pint in time? Yes . Does he now likely not. Dies he hate him I would say The fallen angel Satan yes. Now I have noticed people in this thread are starting to make it personal, let's steer away from that as it's an interesting topic an I would hate to shut it down due to bickering.

Saten is a fallen angel he took 1/3 of the angels in heaven with him. He is not sin personified, that is not scriptural.

I am hesitant to trust any politician with my money.

Well all the earth includes your own city and neighborhood! Always be ready as the word says in season and out.

Almost 24 hours now and only shot periods of rrspit nothing is working!

Praying

This is more or less a SDA apologetic thread. *closed*

I think he is just upset that he is being told that that he can not spend like a drunken sailor with other peoples money..

Yep. But that's been going on fir at least 200 years that people have been mentiong that and have expected the Lords return and been wrong. See Harold Camping

Yep!

Funny I don't see him bending much...

You being generous ....

Making me laugh did not help!