Massorite

I don't know about you but I am very confident that I am saved as everything about my life and myself has been changed to become more Christ like. Truly saved folk have no need to even question themselves. They just know. Like so many others I think you have misunderstood the concept of "Do not judge" We make judgements every day as to whether or not we should do certain things or not. Things like "Should I hang out in a bar or not?" or "Should I go and sit around a crack house with a bunch of crack heads?" or "Should I make friends with and hang out with a bunch of drunk people or no?" These are judgements you have to make for yourself every day and the answer to all of these questions should be NO. Why? Because a bar is full of sin and temptation. People who drink came break your defences down and you might give in to those temptations. You have to decide if these folks would be bad for you or good for you to spend time with which means that you would need to decide whether or not those folks were commiting sin or not. The bible is really quit clear in that when Jesus returns, he will pick up ALL WHO ARE SAVED. Which means that the ONLY folks left here on earth will be the unsaved, of which you have counted yourself as one of them because as you said "you believe that you are supposed to be left behind to warn the unsaved AFTER THE RESURRECTION which mean that you will not be collected up By Jesus when he come and only the UNSAVED are not collected up by Jesus when he comes for us. The only Judgment we are never to make is the Judgement of whether or not we or anybody else will be or went to heaven or not. Why? Because that is a judgment that is reserved for God alone to make.

I like to stay out of threads like this as much as I can, but when I find something I don't understand, I like to question it so I may have a better understanding. You say that the Nicolaitans were followers of "St Nick". According to what I have found, St Nick was not born until around 270 AD. How could the bible be referring to this person who had not been born yet? Edited to reform my question ... how is it that the Nicolaitans are following a man who has not been born? This does not make since at all. You got it onelight. The Nicolaitans were a group of folks who thought that they were in position of some sort of altra secret info about Christ/God and considered themeselves above everyone else. I believe that the Nicolaitans were the very first mention of the Universal Chuch in its infentcy.

I think you got the word "sun" spelled wrong. It should be Son as in SON OF RIGHTEOUSNESS, NOT SUN (S-U-N) AS IN THE PLANET.

http://www.geneveith.com/2010/12/24/why-december-25-is-christmas/ Cobalt is correct. December 25 was not chosen to celebrated just one pagan holiday and not even the holiday of Sol Invectus. But the date of December 25 was chosen by the Roman Emperor Aurelian in 274 AD. The last part of December is the darkest time of the year and the time of the winter solstice, in Rome on December 25, a date chosen by Emperor Aurelian in AD 274, to celebrate pagan celebrations because He wanted to compress both celebrations into one. One was the celebration of the birth of Mithras, the Iranian sun god named “Sun of Righteousness” and was a favorite of the Roman soldiers and the other celebration was the birth of the “ Unconquered Sun” and a few days earlier the celebration of the winter solstice. Also, by early December the farmer would have been finished with his autumn planting which would give way for the grandest pagan festival of the whole year. All of Rome would take part in the celebration of Saturnalia, and it was celebrated between December 17th and December 23rd to honor the Roman god named Saturn, who was the god of agriculture. Saturnalia was designated a holy day on which sacrifices and rituals were performed. The temple of Saturn was the oldest temple recorded by the Roman church and had been dedicated during the Saturnalia, when the bonds which fettered the feet of the statue of the pagan god were loosed to symbolize the liberation of the god. After the sacrifice at the temple, there would be a public banquet where the image of the god would be placed in attendance as if he were a guest. The festival was a time when social restrictions were relaxed, public gambling was allowed, less formal dinner cloths were permitted and slaves were treated as equals. They were permitted to use the dice, wear their Masters cloths and were waited on at meal time. During that week no business was allowed, the serious were barred from the festival, and there was unlimited drinking, games, singing naked, sexual perversions and other debauchery and it was a time to visit friends and give gifts. The Roman church in seeing that the pagans had so much reverence for these pagan holy days and exalted deities during these celebrations, seized upon the peoples reverence for their gods and the date of December 25 to introduce a new reason for the season, a new holy day and called it Christ Mass. This is how and when the church compromised its integrity and pagan ritual began to infiltrate into the church and the worship of Christ. The more the church expanded in size and compromises the more pagan ritual it picked up along the way. Just as the Roman soldiers would bring back to Rome the pagan gods, worship and rituals from the nations they had conquered, so did the church pick up pagan ritual as it expanded. Every single custom, tradition and practice that is observed during the Christmas holiday, has its origins in paganism which dates back long before the birth of our Lord and Savior. These are true historical facts and proof that Christians have been deceived into performing pagan practises in the name of Christ by the Universal Church since about 300 AD. BUT PLEASE DO NOT TAKE MY WORD FOR IT. LOOK IT UP FOR YOUR SELF AND SEE IF WHAT I SAY IS TRUE OR NOT.

How in the world can you be warning people during the imagined seven year tribulation period if you are saved today? Or are you an unsaved person because no saved person will be left on earth after after Jesus comes for us. :noidea: I always tell people this. When we see a new Jewish temple on the temple mount, then we can say the end is near. 2 Thess say that the antichrist will sit in the temple of God showing himself as if he is God so there must be a temple of God for the antichrist to sit in before this prophecy can be fulfilled and the temple of God has always been located in the same place IE "The Temple Mount"

Probably not the way we know it today, but there is evidence that the knew some of what they were writing was by inspiration of the Holy Spirit (Such as Paul's remarks in I Corinthians. Paul calls Luke "Scripture" and Peter refers to Paul's writing as Scripture. There is evidence they knew that some of their writings were going to be Scripture. Paul wrote a lot of other things that did not make it into the Canon (such as the missing letter to the Corinthians or the epistle to Laocecia). Did they know there would a Bible subdivided as Old Testament and New Testament? Not likely. Just as I am already suspecting which would mean that the bible as we know it is actually a manifestion of the hand of God at work in the lives of all of mankind. I asked the question because a nonbeliver had asked me "Who authorized or by what authority did Paul write the bible?" and I didn't have a proper and believable answer for him. He and his wife are nonpracticing Jews who believe that all religions speak the same message and I saw some celtic taroh cards in thier home. However God is reaching out to them. They just don't know it. You have been helpful thanks.

Did Paul and the rest of those who wrote letters and records of history know that what they were writting would some day be put together and called The New Testament?

The fact is that we do not know who the restrainer is and scripture doesn't tell us who he is. Many folks say he is this or that but it all assumption.

I agree. have never understood the wheast and the tares to be speaking about anything other then the church of today. There are people whom we sit next to every Sunday who will some day turn us in for being a Christian to save their own hide.

When Yeshua died the veil to the holy of holies was opened, I think this might go along with what you have written here. Since the veil was rent it is possible for all to come to Him, the way is open until He closes it again. Yes I agree.

Every single soul is called of God to believe in him but I believe it would be a violation of free will for God to directly intervene into a persons mind. However I believe that God would send folks into a persons life to talk to them or we could be called to pray for a persons mind to be opened or God might send an event into that persons life to make them re-think thier position on God. I once talked to a lady about Jesus who was into drugs and partying and just living wild and it didn't seem to make a difference but two years later that lady came to the same church I was attending and gave her life to the Lord. She came to me and told me that she never forgot the words I spoke to her about Christ and that thoose words are the words that made her come to church that day. But it was her dicision alone to turn her life over to Jesus and now she is a great woman of God who heads a prison ministry. That lady was a complete stranger before I talked to her about Jesus and I had forgotten that I had ever talked to her. God works in mysterious ways.

" Revelation 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will show you things which must be hereafter." It is a belief that because this verse says “I looked and, behold a door was opened in heaven,” that this means that the door was opening at the time John looked up. Also, because the scripture says, “Come up here and I will show you things which must be hereafter,” it represents the resurrection. However, a direct translation from the original Greek manuscripts to the English shows that this verse actually says, “I looked and behold a door having been opened in heaven.” This shows that the door had already been opened when John looked up. It was opened when Jesus died and was resurrected, or it was opened on the day the Holy Spirit came to earth bringing power and blessings. My own opinion is that this door was opened when the Holy Spirit came to earth because it is the power of the Holy Spirit which enables us to see into the things of heaven on the other side of that door. It is a door we can look through or go through only if we are in the Spirit as John was. The trumpet spoken of here is the heavenly voice of Jesus, who is showing John the things which must come to pass. By the event that we commemorate today a door was opened, and remains open in heaven. To the Jews and gentiles alike, death had before been a passage into a dreary underworld, and the only immortality believed in was thought to be a gloomy subterranean life, hardly preferable to non-existence. But Christ has lifted the thoughts of men from the underworld to the Father’s house on high. He has associated the immortal life with the glory of the firmament, with all that is in our hearts that is aspiring and upward tending. If we look carefully at this verse, we see it says, “A door was opened.” It doesn’t say was opening or opened or is opening. The words “was opened” are past tense. This door was opened for us the day the Holy Spirit was sent by Jesus to fill the earth and all of those who would be filled with the Spirit. This door has nothing to do with the resurrection and everything to do with the things of the Spirit and the things of heaven. John was in the spirit when he looked up and he saw in the Spirit—something that until the day of Pentecost was reserved only for the prophets and chosen of God. But today the Spirit is available for all who will simply ask. The door is open, but we are slow to look in. The foremost and most solemn thought connected with the future life is that it is we who are to enter into it. Let it be borne in mind that if we are to live after death, it cannot be here under cover of flesh. Here we are known by bodily form and features, but beneath the veil of the flesh such actual character is hidden from all except God. While some neither wish to, nor need to—disguise whether they be of a good or evil spirit there are others who are willing to mask— under a fair exterior—thoughts, passions, affections, afflictions and evils. When the body falls away and the walls that have shut in the soul are trodden down into the dust of the earth, character will be all that remains in the destruction of the flesh which was outwardly manifested and open for all to see. And if there is that within us which for the shame it would bring out that, that was hidden on earth. It may well cause us to tremble because it cannot be hidden in the spiritual realm toward which our steps are rapidly marching. The necessary goal from this is that it behooves us all to be in heart and character what we are willing to appear as when we wake from the death slumber or are changed in the twinkling of an eye. Because when the flesh is gone all will see who and what we really are whether we like it or not. Another glimpse we get through the door opened in heaven is of the things reserved for us in heaven where the Lord God Almighty lives. How joyful they must be. What lights of glory we will finally get to behold. We will get to see all of the power and bigness of God Himself. Such is our reward for loving Him. This open door in heaven makes available to us the very power Christ had—to do the things He did and to know the Father as He did. We should let our grateful thoughts look forward to the morning when the shout will arise in heaven. When we can lift up our heads and be changed for everlasting life. The shining path on which the King of glory went home to the Father is our appointed way. The voice that lingered in the ears of the eleven as He was parted from them says “Come up hither.” Let our faith, our hope, our endeavors press on toward the open door where His welcoming arms await. Amen and Amen.

Just want to make sure I'm on the same page and I'm understanding you correctly. Are you claiming that ALL spirits return to the Father at death? . Great question.

to whom are you asking that question? To Eccl12v13 - the question about Lazarus makes me question whether it is the afterlife of the person or the soul. The person does not have a spirit body at death the soul/spirit returns to the Father. I merely need clarification. Actually the idea that the soul goes back to the father is a false teaching which is based on a currupted interpretation of Ecclesiastes 12:7. The word "spirit" in that verse is not speaking of the soul as is tought. It is speaking of the breath of life (that which animates the body) that all are given at birth. The breath of life that is within, all good or bad, saved or unsaved always goes back to God where it came from. Any who doubt what I am saying I would suggest you look/do the reseach it up for your self and then you will see that the teaching is a false interpretation of the verse. It is the soul of Lazarus that it resting in the bossum of Abraham and the word "resting" in the Greek is speaking about "sleeping". And it is the soul of the rich man that is suffering/burning. Though the rich mans flesh has gone back to the dust where it came from he still has eye balls and a tongue but the breath of life has gone back to God where it came from.

Did you know that the day Jesus was raised from the grave was a "Day of first fruits" during or just after the Passover Feast.

So did the Egyptians.

This subject comes up every year at this time and I get shot down pretty hard when I speak what my research has informed me. But I simply can't give up so here we go again. If you would study Jewish custom you well find that the Jews in the days of Jesus and even the Jews of today do not celebrate birthdays. Because they consider the celebration of birthdays to a pagan ritual and since Jesus was a Jew who followed the laws and costums of Moses we know that Jesus also believed the same way. This is why there are only two biblically recorded birthday celebrations and both of them were done by non-believers/pagans and in both birthday celebrations a man was murdered at the command of the birthdayee as part of the birthday celebration. There is no command by God to celebrate any birthday for any reason written anywhere in the bible and Jesus himself never celebrated his own birthday nor did he command us to celebrate his birthday. Not only that but the celebration of the birth of Christ as in Christmas was not celebrated for the first 300 years of the church. Now most folks have the idea that if it is done for the right reasons then that makes it ok but one can call pagan ritual anything they want but it is still pagan ritual. The biblical example I always use to show what God thinks about doing that which is wrong in the eyes of God with the seemingly right modivations is the story about the ark of the covenant on the cart. When King David was transporting the Ark of the Covenant back to the temple from Philistinian hands the cart hit a bump in the road and caused the Ark to wabble. So the driver of the Ark reached out to steady the Ark to keep it from falling to the ground and when he did God killed him at the very second his hand touched the Ark. So, did the driver of the cart touch the Ark out of respect for God to keep it from falling to the ground? YES he did and he did it for the right reasons. But God commanded that no human would ever touch the Ark which is why there were polls used to transport it. So right reasons or not, disobeying a commandment from God is considered by God to be a sin against him. Well the same kind of commandment applies to the use of pagan ritual to celebrate the birth of God in the flesh. We are commanded not to have anything to do with anything that has anything to do with Paganism. And when we use pagan ritual to honor and celebrate Our God we are actually slapping him in the face. If God wanted us to celebrate the birth of Jesus he would have told us to do it. I wouldn't say that we were lied to by our parents because they were decieved by the church who lied to everyone. The Universal Church knew what they were doing and claimed that they were doing it for a good reason but in reality they adopted paganism into the church and compromised/corrupted not only the church but also the gospel of Jesus. There is no proof in scripture that God respects the use of any pagan ritual to celebrate Christ just because it is the only time of the year that some folks talk about Jesus. Just make sure that you don't worship any pagan gods at Christmas and you'll be fine. I don't do any of it. Did you know that the word "Mistoltoe" means dug on a twig?

Aaaaahhhhhh man that is great. I have always been puzzled by that statment and for the first time somebody gave an explenation that actually makes sence. Pharohs heart was already hardened against anything and everything that wasn't per the religion of the Pharoh so that when God came in and showed his power it hardened the heart of Pharoh all the more. My compliments Botz and Glory to God.

No it is not possiple. If Arrows are not mentioned then there are none. However if you were to do some proper research you will find that the phrase "to conqure and conquring" is actually renderd from the words "to overcome and overcoming" and arrows are not needed to overcome unless it is done by violence. But in the case of the antichrist he will overcome/conqure by nice and pretty words at the first which falls in line with the rest of prophecy. The antichrist will come at first speaking great words of peace, bringing great wonders and miracles with him and that is how he will conqure or overcome most of the world before he resorts to war which is why war is not mentioned until the second seal is broken because why? Because war is not what the first horseman represants which is why he has no weapons to make war with. The first horsemen is a bluff, con artist, a liar who will decieve.

This subject comes up every year at this time and I get shot down pretty hard when I speak what my research has informed me. But I simply can't give up so here we go again. If you would study Jewish custom you well find that the Jews in the days of Jesus and even the Jews of today do not celebrate birthdays. Because they consider the celebration of birthdays to a pagan ritual and since Jesus was a Jew who followed the laws and costums of Moses we know that Jesus also believed the same way. This is why there are only two biblically recorded birthday celebrations and both of them were done by non-believers/pagans and in both birthday celebrations a man was murdered at the command of the birthdayee as part of the birthday celebration. There is no command by God to celebrate any birthday for any reason written anywhere in the bible and Jesus himself never celebrated his own birthday nor did he command us to celebrate his birthday. Not only that but the celebration of the birth of Christ as in Christmas was not celebrated for the first 300 years of the church. Now most folks have the idea that if it is done for the right reasons then that makes it ok but one can call pagan ritual anything they want but it is still pagan ritual. The biblical example I always use to show what God thinks about doing that which is wrong in the eyes of God with the seemingly right modivations is the story about the ark of the covenant on the cart. When King David was transporting the Ark of the Covenant back to the temple from Philistinian hands the cart hit a bump in the road and caused the Ark to wabble. So the driver of the Ark reached out to steady the Ark to keep it from falling to the ground and when he did God killed him at the very second his hand touched the Ark. So, did the driver of the cart touch the Ark out of respect for God to keep it from falling to the ground? YES he did and he did it for the right reasons. But God commanded that no human would ever touch the Ark which is why there were polls used to transport it. So right reasons or not, disobeying a commandment from God is considered by God to be a sin against him. Well the same kind of commandment applies to the use of pagan ritual to celebrate the birth of God in the flesh. We are commanded not to have anything to do with anything that has anything to do with Paganism. And when we use pagan ritual to honor and celebrate Our God we are actually slapping him in the face. If God wanted us to celebrate the birth of Jesus he would have told us to do it. I wouldn't say that we were lied to by our parents because they were decieved by the church who lied to everyone. The Universal Church knew what they were doing and claimed that they were doing it for a good reason but in reality they adopted paganism into the church and compromised/corrupted not only the church but also the gospel of Jesus. There is no proof in scripture that God respects the use of any pagan ritual to celebrate Christ just because it is the only time of the year that some folks talk about Jesus.

You know as many times as I have read the bible there is only one place where the word "hap" as in "IT HAPPENED BY CHANCE" shows up and even then it is a prophecy fulfilled. It is the death of Ahab. It was prophecied that he would die with an arrow in his back and it was some unknown soldier who shot that arrow. So yes if God is in control of all thing at all times in our lives I would say that God iether sends folks into our lives for a purpose or he allows them to come into our lives for a purpose.

Mary was born just like the rest of us which means that she had a sinful nature just like the rest of us.

Revelation 2:10 Fear none of those things which you shall suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that you may be tried; and you shall have tribulation ten days: be you faithful to death, and I will give you a crown of life. The Roman Empire sought to eradicate the faithful of Jesus from the face of the earth. They were burned, beaten, hanged, crucified, used as human torches, fed to the lions and tortured to death. Under ten tyrants from Nero to Constantine the Great, the Church was persecuted. It is not by chance that verse 10 above says they will have tribulation for ten days and there were ten emperors who persecuted the Church. These emperors were Nero in A.D. 67, Domitian in A.D. 81, Trajan in A.D.108, Marcus Aurelius Antoninus in A.D.162, Severus in A.D. 192, Maximus in A.D.235, Decius in A.D. 249, Valerian in A.D. 257, Aurelian in A.D. 274, and Diocletian in A.D. 303. Although there were more than ten emperors of Rome in between Nero and Constantine the Great, these ten emperors of Rome stand out because they hated the followers of Christ and instituted specific movements of persecutions against them. The ten days spoken of in this verse represent these ten emperors of Rome and their persecutions of the Church. The church of Smyrna fits the description given here but, at the same time, it was prophetic of the second church age that covers about half of the first and all of the second-century persecution by Roman emperors who considered themselves to be gods, as well as worshiping other gods other than Jehovah. In this verse, Jesus is giving the church encouragement and also warning them that they were about to go into Great Tribulation. When He told them that they should not fear any of the pain they were about to suffer, He meant exactly what hesaid. Would Jesus allow us to suffer in His name? Yes, he would. The big question is “Is it eternally significant?” answer should always be yes, because suffering in the name of Jesus is always eternally significant. Jesus says that if we hold onto His name, even to the death, He will give us a wonderful eternal life. This was just the beginning of the persecuted church. It started with Nero and it hasn't stopped yet and it will continus until the Resurrection comes.

The number 12 in scripture represents "governmental perfection". Jesus is always discribed as a man in linen or white linen, whose face is very bright. Scripture in this case does not tell use who "he" is but if I were to take other scripture into consideration and make a guess I would say that this is Christ.

Firstly verse 7 does not mention the saints who are under the Alter. They are mentioned in verses 9-11. There is no scripture that tells us that Jesus emptied all of the souls of Paradise out when he ascended into heaven. Not only that but there is nowhere in the bible that tells us that as soon as we die we will go to heaven. If you don't believe me look up for yourself. Get out the Strongs, go to the word "heaven" and read every single verse in the bible that has the word "heaven in it and see if you can find where it tells us that we will go to heaven as soon as we die. It is at this point that people will say "to be absent from the body is to be in the presents of the Lord" and that could not be a more corrupt interpretation of that verse. The corruption comes from not taking the Whole verse into account and leaving out the words "Rather be". Paul is not saying that "to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord" Paul is telling the Corintian church that HE and whoever is with him are "confident and well pleased" that the believers of the church would RATHER BE absent from the body and Present with the Lord. Which in no way, shape or form says "to be absent from the body is to be in the presents of the Lord" The other quote people make is in Ecc. 12:7 "Then the dust will to the dust as it was and the spirit will return to God who gave it". But that word "SPIRIT" is not talking about the soul, it is talking about the "Breath of Life" that which animates the body. So again we have a corrupt interpretation of this verse also. The bible says that Jesus took Captivity Captive so if you will look up the word "Captivity or the word Captive" you will find that it is talking about taking control of a thing and in this case it is talking about taking control of death and sin. Before Jesus was sacrificed on the cross death and sin reigned supreme on the earth. But after Jesus death and sin became captive or defeated in Jesus. Besides, If every believer who has already died or will die goes straight to heaven who will still be in the grave for Jesus and the reapers to raise from the grave? I bet that Jesus and the reaper angels will be very surprised to find all of the graves emptied when they come for us. LOL Wouldn't you agree? If Jesus is our example and we are going to be like him then we will first decend down into the lower reaches of the earth until God raises us from the dead just like Jesus. Now about the souls of those who are under the Alter of God. When I stated that Paradise was under the Alter of God I was making an assumption and I was wrong for doing that because there is no scripture to back up my assumption. What I put as a topic is only a small part of a book I wrote on the book of Revelation during 8 years of research and study on that book alone which if done properly will take you all over the bible. But this is what I say to your question. There is no scriptural proof that the souls that are under the Alter of God came from "THE" great tribulation. The only thing that is said about the cause of their death is that they were killed for the name of Jesus (word of God) and the testamony which they held. In verse 11 it also tells us that those under the Alter of God should "rest for a little while longer until both the number of their fellow servents and there brethern who would be killed as they were, is completed" Did those souls come from great tribulation? Yes they did, but they did not come from "THE GREAT TRIBULATION" because that tribulation period has not taken place yet but I believe that we will see it in our life time. Last year in 2010 some two hundred fifty thousand Believers died because of the word of God/Jesus and the Testamony which they held. They were burned to death, tortured, hanged, young women had acid thrown into their faces, they were put into jails, school girls had their heads cut off and the list goes on. Did those believers suffer the wrath of God or did they suffer Great Tribulation? The souls who are under the Alter of God are those who have already died for Christ and those who will die for Christ in the future are those fellow servents who will be killed just as those who are under the Alter have already been killed. There is no scripture that tells us exactly where "under the Alter of God is located" However since there is no scriptural proof that we go to heaven as soon as we die there is no proof that "under the Alter of God is located in heaven iether". Littlelamb you need to give some scripture to back up what you are saying if you want me to re-think my position on any subject. Because with out scripture it is nothing. Show me some scriptural proof that we go to heaven as soon as we die. Show me some scriptural proof that Paradise is no longer. Or show me some scriptural proof that those under the Alter of God came from "THE" great tribulation.