Fraught

so, to sum up answers to my post, would you say that expressions of faith are to give without thought to one's own needs, not having a concern whether those needs are met or unmet?

Very... very... well said riel! I wouldn't want this thread to go in another direction but I would have to ask for your interpretation on something. First off, considering all that you said about becoming intimately close to the Father through faith, resulting from deeper knowledge of him through his word, what would be your interpretation for, what I call, a key word "OF" in Galatians 2:20 from the King James Version? 20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith OF the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. [Gal 2:20] Considering the King James use of the word when Paul said that he lived by the faith OF the Son of God do you, or anyone else, believe that we can get to a place in our walk where it is Christ within that takes over and lives out his life, as he lived on earth, through our mortal bodies? What I mean is, can we become so "possessed" by Christ, so filled with HIM, that it becomes HIS eyes that we see through... HIS mind that we think with... HIS heart that we love with and lastly... HIS faith we operate in and express? I know many other translations use the word "IN" instead of the word "OF". Faith "IN" the Son of God instead of Faith "OF" the Son of God. I haven't done any study for the word "OF" in the original Greek but I have sometimes wondered if we can walk in such closeness with the Lord that it becomes Christ's actual faith expressing itself through HIS love for all those we come into contact with? Im sure that it is more universally interpreted to mean we live by OUR faith IN the Son of God instead of we living our lives BY the faith OF the Son of God. It would seem that if the word IN is more appropriate here I have a large role to play in developing this faith. I'm not trying to interpret the word OF in the KJV to allow me a "cop-out"... to excuse my lack of faith at times... but how inspiring and exciting the thought that we could get to a place that we are so aware of how crucified we truly are and Christ literally takes over in the area of faith and love. I humbly request your thoughts... my thoughts on this are that from the moment you are born again, the faith you have is OF the Son of God. we may think it is our faith - that by His power we have faith - but it isn't true. it feels that way, yes. but scripture tells us that He GIVES us a measure of faith. without this gift, we would not have this faith at all. as you said, there is a role for us to play in increasing or developing this faith, also by the power OF God that gives it to us in the first place.

having said that about the u.n. getting out of the u.s., you reminded me of something i heard awhile back - and that is that the u.n. will be moving to iraq, possibly babylon. i can't remember the source except that it may be somewhat unreliable but considering the fact that the new york building is getting decrepit and the still unanswered question of why the embassy in iraq is so large, there could be something to it.

i feel left out. i only knew the first verse !!! thanks for reminding me of it tho, nebula. i plan to memorize it PLUS i would love to find a recording of it to add to my music list. anybody know of a good one? by good one, i mean it has to be easy to sing - easy for me, that is.

In the NIV translation of Galatians 5:6 it says this: For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love. Speaking of the insufficiency of rule following for outward show, what exactly is an expression of faith through love? It's put this way in the King James: but faith which worketh by love. and like this in the NASB: but faith working through love. Since it is the only thing that counts i would like to understand it in a more concrete way. Can you help me by showing an example from everyday life of faith working by love?

I went out of my way to make sure that nobody misunderstood me in that regard. First paragraph. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man Sorry Dave, I don't really think that was a straw man arguement. And actually I didn't mean that you believe God doesn't know everything. But to say that God created men who he knew would be evil is somehow different than creating men to be evil, is really splitting hairs. Either way it was in God's intent that men be evil. Its not like God didn't have any control over what the man would do. That was my point, not some silly straw man argument. Anyway forget it if you want. My intent is not to misrepresent anyone, only understand the truth as described in scripture, so please do not be offended. Nobody *ascended* to heaven except the Son of God. Big difference. Fair enough point. But clearly the King of Babylon was never literally in heaven. Inferring that it means Satan, instead of interpreting it as meaning the King of Babylon was figuratively in heaven, is the real question. Well, I think you have avoided several of my questions. But that is ok. Did you have any thoughts on why God created darkness and how darkness is "very good"? (Other than being "very good" for its purpose?) And I would really love to know your comment on these scriptures (which I didn't see in any of your responses): Isaiah 54:16 Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy. Job 26:13 By his spirit he hath garnished the heavens; his hand hath formed the crooked serpent. John 8:44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. Maybe I missed your answer, but to me they all clearly show God created Satan to be what he is, and that was God's intent and purpose. That for me is the real deal killer of the lucifer myth that is read into Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28. Cheers, Legoman did God create darkness? scriptures tell us there was darkness in the beginning & God created light. later He created the sun, moon & stars. best to ponder on this first 'light' that he created. so, what darkness are you speaking of? nighttime? there's only good at nighttime. most creatures must sleep. some must have the cover of nighttime to hunt and so to eat. plants must rest and not continually photosynthesisize (i made up that word ) also, the stars can only declare the Glory of God at nighttime.

can't be discounted. even biblically - THE LIFE WAS THE LIGHT OF MEN (John 1:4) and WITH THEE IS THE FOUNTAIN OF LIFE: IN THY LIGHT SHALL WE SEE LIGHT (Psalm 36:9) and EXAMPLE AND SHADOW OF HEAVENLY THINGS (Hebrews 8:5) []and Which are a SHADOW OF THINGS TO COME BUT THE BODY IS OF CHRIST (Colossians 2:17) P.S. Traveller: you can't fizzle apart because He is before all things, and IN HIM ALL THINGS HOLD TOGETHER !!!! (Colossians 1:17)

yes please!!! hold your head up we are all your brothers and sisters. what did Jesus say? those who follow Him are His brother and mother and sister. We'll see you there, brother!

thank you for your courtesy in asking. i'm speaking more of 'free to'. i hadn't considered 'free from'. it's an interesting question. but are we not free to choose? God said "I put before you death or life. Choose." i couldn't imagine that anyone is free from sin or God's sovereignty in the sense that they live in 1) a world whose prince is the devil and 2) a world that ultimately belongs to God, whether they realize it or not.

Ladies. We do NOT need this news to get around !!!!!

Just a pc. of it that touched on some of the discussion here. It's still worth your time to read the whole thing. I also would like to pose the questions I asked in my last thread again if anyone is still interested. Is it safe (biblical) to say that God is the only source of good? Would it then be correct to say that evil is not a created thing, per say, but simply the absence of God, or better, the absence of Good? Dave i believe it is biblically safe to say that God is the only source of good. (on the side-note, God didn't have to decree evil (and did not). that took care of itself when He gave man free will. what do the armed services say? "freedom is not free"? i guess it's kind of the same thing.

it may be interesting, but completely beside the point. we have all watched israel being attacked by hamas over and over again while not fighting back. how can you look at this action by israel as anything but defensive?

LOL - i won't forget. it's part of the reason i love the bible so much. it's so full of things that make you think - and sit in wonder at His ways.

relating to what backontrack has said, jesus has said that greater things will we do AND that "greater is He that is in you than He that is in the world". it is obvious to me that if we REALLY believed that, we would be overcoming the evils we encounter, such as disease, for one example. why take the world as it is for granted, that things are the way they are and nothing we can do about it? maybe it's next to impossible to overcome the teachings of decades that we all received for our worldview but we can at least strive for it if we take Jesus at His Word.

i have finally gotten around to reading the book 'darwin's black box'. interesting stuff. in pondering on the facts about gene mutations, etc. causing diseases, hereditary defects and the like, i think back to God's statement that on the day they eat of that tree, "they shall surely die". i think, perhaps, they did die. in some way. physically, not just spiritually. that God revived them and at that time put their bodies in operation with all the various molecules and atoms of the cell, the dna & rna, etc. we know their bodies must have been different after they ate - thus, the sudden realization that they were naked. voila, a temporary life to give mankind another chance. i'm interested in your thoughts about this matter and any other insights gained by anyone who has read this book or another like it.

another interesting bit of info relates back to Daniel. In the king's court, Daniel became one of the wise men. It is speculated that he was the head of the group after he interpreted the king's dreams. following that, he taught them what the signs in the sky would be preceding the birth of the Messiah; thus, they passed that down among themselves (at least the ones among them who believed him or even cared) until the time came.

stock up on warm clothing. the ash fallout could make it pretty cold for a few years.

and history repeats itself as well. it just goes to show that satan is just not all that creative !!

dear hunterpoet. please be stocked up on water & food & first aid equipment for ANY eventuality. we should all be prepared with emergency supplies anyway. imminent threat is always present. Birth Pangs are increasing.... here are some good links on Volcano and recent earthquake activity http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7805018.stm http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2008/07/r...c_activity.html http://www.minelinks.com/meteo/volcanoes.html Earthquake increases in last 10 years plus a 100 year graph http://www.thehorizonproject.com/earthquakes.cfm http://www.earth.webecs.co.uk/index.htm http://www.icr.org/article/twentieth-centu...nting-urban-le/ Wow! i hadn't got a chance tolook at those graphs 'til now. that one at the horizon project knocked my socks off. the increase is stunning !!

What is true love? to serve, to give. a lot of people i know forget that love is a verb.

but maybe worth a million bucks

Define legalism. Its been my experience that the church has become an "anything goes" institution that isn't really getting the "job" done. but maybe it's okay. after all, all they really have to do is speak the Word. God will do the 'job'.

GOD BLESS YOU Onelight for providing all those scriptures. It's so evident when even the world says explicitly, the falling away will come before Christ. I truly truly belive that when Jesus returns, we will all be immediately aware of it. All of us who are Christians and born again. I belive it will be like as if we have heard our father or mother in the distance and recognized them by the sound of their walk and the words of their voice. Matthew 24:25-27 25 See, I have told you ahead of time. 26 "So if anyone tells you, 'There he is, out in the desert,' do not go out; or, 'Here he is, in the inner rooms,' do not believe it. 27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. When Jesus says something like this? Why would we go here and there trying to see all the miraculous things going on? They are obviously going to be a trap. i agree with you, we will know beyond a shadow of a doubt. i appreciated the article as well. love this sentence: Some believe the Church's response to jihad must be a fearless proclamation of the Gospel to Muslims. tht sounds like a command almost.

Seems easier to make that statement above then to say Wow God was that from you. I just did not get one positive response from this post directed towards signs and wonders yet all seem to mostly forbid welcoming it. I guess it is easier to discredit the fact that all of you would be a prime candidate for this in your life! Shows how far we have come in 2000 years still at the baby stage of growth! Exactly !!! We should be doing even greater things. I think that people don't focus on all the words of the scripture about deception. it says "if it were possible". that reads, to me, that it is NOT possible. if Jesus the Christ is proclaimed, it can't be false. otherwise, the house could not stand, divided against itself that way.

great idea! finally someone has learned a lesson from history (the government never seems to ) we watched that with indonesia, didn't we? now, how to go about it !??