~~ angelique ~~

Has anyone ever felt like a lost cause? I am most certainly feeling that way. What's the point of fighting???? Someone told me a few years back the God couldn't help me and with the way things are going at the moment... I think I see his point.

Read this and you'll understand.

thanks. Quieting the mind seems easier said than done at the moment.

This thread was started because I've been seriously thinking about doing it and was curious if it will cause me to go to hell.

What exactly does it mean when someone's faith is shipwrecked?

Angelique - One thing you may discover is that there are some theological questions which theologians love to debate about and for which no one can agree on an answer to. One is: "Did Adam have a belly button?" (I'm serious!) Another is: Predestination vs. Free will This question of where evil came from is one of those. I listened to a Rabbi explain how the Scriptures are full of seeming contradictions. There was actually a name for this - I can't remember what it was though as it was something in either Hebrew or Yiddish - but it is a common enough occurance that they gave it a theological expression. For them, what seems to us as a contradiction means that God has a lesson for us in figuring out how to work the two together. (I'm sorry I can't remember the example he gave either. ) So, this is a question which is best looked at in terms of seeking the answer will tell us more than the answer itself will give. Make sense? Somewhat. I just don't get all this theological stuff to see it

There is no scriptural proof that there was no evil. In fact, Gods creation leans toward there being evil. If this was not true, there would of been no tree of the knowledge of good and evil, as found in Genesis 2:9. God created everything, and in order to have one side, there has to be an opposite in order to make it true. How would we know of love if there was not hate, hot if there was no cold, up if there was no down? Lucifer was created a perfect being, but knew about sin and choose evil over good in his heart. Does that mean that God created evil? If evil existed BEFORE Lucifer rebelled and if the knowledge of good and evil also existed, then God created said knowledge? :thumbsup:

Ummmm. I have this question as well. Only I came up with a very simple answer. If people are unbelievers, then they are considered "sinners" and what do unbelievers do? Not follow God; therefore, they do not need a "moral police ticket" but a picture of a relationship with Jesus. Who wants to shoot someone who needs Jesus with their bible Bazooka and turn them off? Their actions are a symptom of the lack of relationship. Pretty simple.

That's a very good question. If Lucifer was created perfect, then chose to rebel against God, then did God create Lucifer with imperfections???

Thanks Joe for the reply to "Isaiah43:4' Here it is. While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled. John 17:12. Jesus Himself acknowledged to the Father that of those whom the Father had given Him Judas was the only one whom He had lost (John 17:12). Christ could not have lost Judas if He never had him to lose. Jesus further testified that to everyone (including Judas) that the Father had given Him, He had given ETERNAL LIFE (John 17:2). Judas had this eternal life as much as the others but he became "lost" later and by "transgression fell" (Acts 1:25). Haz. That still doesn't say that Judas become "lost" because he killed himself. You're saying Judas killed himself, and you're saying Judas went to hell. You also seem to be saying that the first caused the second. I don't find that in Scripture. I'm also not sure I agree that John 17:12 is saying that Judas was saved and then lost his salvation. "Christ could not have lost Judas if He never had him to lose." That's inference and subject to opinion. In regards to this, why would Judas go to hell for this IF God had appointed him to betray Jesus? It seems to me that if that is so then Judas wasn't even born with a chance. If Jesus was crucified from the foundation of the world, then Judas had betrayed him as well since then. :emot-heartbeat:

Wasn't the bible written from a patriarchal perspective? Women didn't matter in their society. Maybe the command in question was written from the cultural perspective of the time? Explain why there is neither male nor female, jew nor gentile in heaven?

And, Peter denied Jesus three times but he was accepted.

That is the idea. :24: What?

You just don't know how many times this conversation actually comes up among pagan women. I have heard many say they wouldn't attend a Christian church because of the bias against women. I would suggest that a woman coming out of Wicca, where the Goddess is worshiped, that a church with a female pastor might be able to reach them. I understand what the bible says; however, I don't necessarily agree in full with it. I agree with what someone else said. My example, how can a man (as a pastor) seriously counsel a women on some issues. Please, even on worthy, there are "mens" and "ladies" forums. It doesn't mean that a person is weak just that we're people and people are weak. Does not the bible state that a woman should not have authority over a man? Then, what is so wrong about having female pastor for the women? There are some discussions in women's counseling and stuff that just shouldn't be discussed with a man (pastor or not); once again, hence, why even worthy has a male and female. Anyway, I don't think I'm making my thoughts clear. Thanks.

My heart is breaking.... I feel so alone

In the event of manipulation tactics - run, do not walk, to the nearest exit! This is a sure sign of a cult. (Yes, even Christian churches can turn into cults. Satan loves to trip up and snare leadership into become cult-like leaders. Thus , the need to guard against PRIDE.) Angelique - Although I would agree that some positions require the person to have grown in the faith and proved themselves faithful over time (Scriptures mention this for elders and deacons, for example), the qualities this "church" seemed to be advocating are definitely the wrong ones! The fact that they spurred you rather than answered your question only proves that they were wrong. Does this help? Yeah, it does.

I don't understand it either. Where did you come up with that concept? Who told you this? I came up with this concept because one of the church experience I had (the one I keep referring to that has wounded me so) the church leadership chose people who they "deemed fit." I personally watched as those who had more money or could benefit the church through some association or were close friends of those in leadership were the ONLY ones who "were deemed fit." When I questioned this, I was told to follow the leadership even if they were wrong; that I had no right to question them; and pretty much raked over the coals for having a brain. The pastor actually told me that "God could never use me" as well as "God couldn't help me." So, I have a valid reason for asking this question. They had the idea that the people were to follow the leaders as the leaders followed God and that to question them was to question God. I was told this point blank - to my face - when I met with this pastor to discuss this issue. Does that help everyone to understand where this question comes from?

Methinks the thread has been hijacked ~~ ~~ I am still wondering about the original post I made.

I have a question about the discerning of the spirits. I have been told more than a few times this isn't exactly a 'gift'. What and how does anyone explain this? Thanks. I am curious about this one as well.

Spiritual gifts, given to believers by the Holy Spirit, is told to us in 1 Corinthians 12:7-11. They are: But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all: for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit, to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills. The Gifts of the Spirit are different from the ministries that He gives to each of us. This is seen in 1 Corinthians 12:4-6 There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord. And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all. And further more in verses 27 & 28: Now you are the body of Christ, and members individually. And God has appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, varieties of tongues. God gives us our gifts and ministries. He will not use us until He is ready. Saying that, I also believe that there are some who claim to have certain gifts, but are using the counterfeit gifts from Satan to accomplish Satan's plan of confusion and division. To me, these people are doing so because of pride and arrogance, thinking that they are doing Gods will by believing a lie that they are truly gifted. So sly are Satan's lies. Then there are those who do not wait for the Lord. They step out in their own flesh and use what God has given them before their time. This also will cause confusion and division. These are those who are immature, a novice in their walk, causing them to fall into reproach and the snare of the devil. We are to wait until He "deems" us fit for service and not place our own understanding above His will. The Gifts, when properly used, are to profit all, as stated in verse 7. In order for this to be accomplished, one must be mature in their walk, which would mean that God knows their heart and their heart is Gods, not half Gods and half their own. To me, this is what ~angelique~ means by being "deemed" fit. Furthermore, this is Gods choice, not mans. It is He who "deems" who is fit and who is not. In His Love, OneLight Actually, I kind of meant it how it sounded. When the Holy Spirit comes into someone, can't God use them right then and there? For instance, the above quoted verse on various tongues. When I received the baptism of the spirit, the pastor was praying in tongues, and immediately I understand what he was praying although he didn't know. God didn't wait. Am I mature? No freaking way; however, I was able to interpret what was said anyway. So, I don't understand the "deemed fit" idea. God spoke through Balaam's donkey, was the donkey "fit"? No; however, the donkey was available. I guess I am wondering where the limitations are coming from God or man's ideas of what God said. It's in my head that God will use whomever is available for him. Even in the parable of the seed. Good ground (where the seen of God is growing), there are different levels of fruit grown. To me that means that there are different maturity levels but at each level fruit and gifts can be exhibited. From what I've read, the disciples were used way before they were ready. Then there was the women at the well. She had an encounter with Jesus then went and evangelized the whole town telling them to meet Jesus. :24:

Yeah, it's real. A vision I had: In my vision, I am being pulled into flames and, at the same time, being pulled up to heaven. I felt like I was being ripped in two. Then, two angels came and helped to pull me out of the fire when I asked God for help. http://www.worthychristianforums.com/index...t&p=1182558 <-- where I posted the vision. Anyway, to make a long story short. Another friend who was in the occult, had a similar experience. There are smells from this experiences that can't be described unless you have experienced them. I used to not believe in hell; however, have an experience like this and you'd have no doubt whatsoever that there is a hell as mentioned in the bible.

The term "religion" from the bible

I have a question on spiritual gifts. Can God use a person where they are or must they wait until some point in the future where they are "deemed" fit for use? I am so confused about this. Some say you have to be fit for use. But, I don't understand why the spirit of God couldn't use someone right where they are. To me, so state that someone has to be "deemed fit" is to put the Spirit of God in a box. Thanks for your kind responses.

Okay, so I haven't quite learned Christianese yet. What do these terms mean? Convicted led What exactly is the Lion? Why does the bible refer to people as sheep? I might have more later but I've been trying to figure this out. Thanks.

Thank you. I will say it again, I don't know one single pagan that would care one iota. It's a mute point in the real world. This is strictly a "religious" argument and who wants that? Religion is dead. God is alive. This whole topic has been a real turn off for me. I am having a hard time getting into church. When I get there is this the kind of nonissue that will be discussed? :31: I don't see what it has to do with Jesus but see it has everything to do with legalistic religion. But, that's just my opinion. :noidea: