legoman

I don't think those on the "God creates evil" side are "speaking ill of God". Try looking at it from this perspective: God does not sin. God hates sin. I don't think anyone would argue with this. God has a knowledge of good and evil. This does not mean God is evil, but he has knowledge of it. God is the ultimate in goodness. Again I don't think anyone would argue with this. God creates man in his image. In fact, God is still making man in his image. In order to show man what good is, evil is necessary, so God sets up the circumstances of this world so that evil exists. One cannot know what "good" is unless you also know what "evil" is. Does God cause man to sin directly? No. Sin comes from the heart. Man's pride and lust causes him to sin. Example: you lust after a pretty girl that walks by. You just sinned. Did God make you lust after her? No - you did it yourself. BUT... who designed man to be so spiritually weak so that he would give into his lusts? God did! Romans 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, 21Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. We sin because of our lusts and because we are spiritually weak. God designed us that way (Romans 8:20). But it is only temporary and God will deliver us from that bondage eventually (Romans 8:21). Does God not send good & evil?: Job 2:10 But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips. Who was it that created the tree of knowledge of good and evil, and then made it desirable to Adam & Eve, and placed it right where they would see it? God of course. However, again God did not make them sin, but he knew they would. He knew Satan would tempt Eve to eat from the forbidden tree and it was all His plan from the beginning (Isaiah 46:10). If God did not want Adam & Eve to sin, he would have stopped it: - he wouldn't have put the tree of knowledge of good and evil in the garden (why even bother to create it) - he wouldn't have allowed Satan anywhere near Adam & Eve - in fact he would have got rid of Satan long ago God is giving us an experience of evil so that we will learn humility & righteousness (Ecc 1:13). Hopefully that gives some more perspective from the other side. Cheers, Legoman I know you are trying to help, and I appreciate your efforts, but your post is a prime example of taking what is said and not HEARING what is said. You wrote... Does God not send good & evil?: Job 2:10 But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips. Job was using the term "evil" to mean something that a person hates to have happen to them, NOT referring to sin, wickedness, nor Satanic things. To Job the deaths of his children was no doubt an evil thing, something he hated, but he was not charging God with sin, and he was very careful not to speak foolishly concerning God. OK... I find it interesting that you talk about "not HEARING", and then you go onto say that Job was not charging God with sin, seemingly implying that I am charging God with sin. Maybe your weren't implying that but that is what it sounds like. If you read my post I said very clearly from the top that God does not sin. With respect to Job's situation, the evil that happened to Job was done by Satan's influence. But ultimately it came down to God allowing/permitting Satan to do it for God's purpose. If God didn't want Satan to do it, it wouldn't have happened. God is sovereign over Satan. God doesn't have to give in to anyone. But anyway, read the rest of my post. You only addressed one small portion. Clearly God created the tree of knowledge of good and evil and made it desirable to Adam & Eve (Gen 3:6). Clearly God subjected his creation to vanity and bondage of corruption (Romans 8:20-21). God not only sees the end and the beginning, he declares it and brings it to pass (Isaiah 46:10-11). Yes I 100% agree that God is perfect and without fault. Perhaps here is the misconception: If God created evil, that would be a fault. NOT TRUE. God creates evil for a very good purpose. A perfect purpose. To show us (humanity) what good is. Eventually we will learn and then we will be free from the bondage of corruption (Romans 8:21). This won't happen until we are free of the flesh and are raised with incorruptible spiritual bodies (1 Cor 15:50-55) Corruption must put on incorruption and mortality must put in immortality. Cheers, Legoman Keep in mind that even the angels are watching what is happening in this created world. It is all designed to demonstrate the Glory of God. No one can doubt that there is evil in this world. God created this world and allowed evil to enter. And it didn't catch God by surprise. I believe He even planned for its entrance. God hates sin and as was put so bluntly, He hates what man does to man throughout history. The rapes, murders, human sacrifices. None of it is condoned. On the other hand it is in the world and God did make the world.(don't draw wrong conclusions from what I just said) Nothing happens that is not under God's complete control. All the rapes, murders, wars, etc. will only go as far as God allows them, and He will allow them as far as it pleases Him. LT Yeah, I get what you are saying Larry. Here is a scripture that summarizes (I think) what you said: Jeremiah 18:11 Now therefore go to, speak to the men of Judah, and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, saying, Thus saith the LORD; Behold, I frame evil against you, and devise a device against you: return ye now every one from his evil way, and make your ways and your doings good. God frames evil. What does that mean? Well he allows evil, perhaps even causes/creates evil, but he doesn't let the evil out of his control. It is framed within the bounds and purposes that God will use it for. If God did not frame evil, we would be in a much worse world than we are in now. Yet God still allows the evil to exist (within bounds) for his purposes - so that we would learn goodness. I agree it is all for God's glory - but there is more to it than that - God is creating us in his image and giving us an experience of evil: Eccl 1:13 (KJV) And I gave my heart to seek and search out by wisdom concerning all things that are done under heaven: this sore travail hath God given to the sons of man to be exercised therewith. Its a bit hard to see in the KJV translation - look at the Concordant old testament translation: Ecc 1:13 It is an experience of evil Elohim [God] has given to the sons of humanity to humble them by it No matter how you look at that verse, you have to agree that God has made this world a tough place to live, and there is evil in it - but He has done it for a reason: we will learn goodness and will be humbled. Cheers, Legoman

I don't think those on the "God creates evil" side are "speaking ill of God". Try looking at it from this perspective: God does not sin. God hates sin. I don't think anyone would argue with this. God has a knowledge of good and evil. This does not mean God is evil, but he has knowledge of it. God is the ultimate in goodness. Again I don't think anyone would argue with this. God creates man in his image. In fact, God is still making man in his image. In order to show man what good is, evil is necessary, so God sets up the circumstances of this world so that evil exists. One cannot know what "good" is unless you also know what "evil" is. Does God cause man to sin directly? No. Sin comes from the heart. Man's pride and lust causes him to sin. Example: you lust after a pretty girl that walks by. You just sinned. Did God make you lust after her? No - you did it yourself. BUT... who designed man to be so spiritually weak so that he would give into his lusts? God did! Romans 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, 21Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. We sin because of our lusts and because we are spiritually weak. God designed us that way (Romans 8:20). But it is only temporary and God will deliver us from that bondage eventually (Romans 8:21). Does God not send good & evil?: Job 2:10 But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips. Who was it that created the tree of knowledge of good and evil, and then made it desirable to Adam & Eve, and placed it right where they would see it? God of course. However, again God did not make them sin, but he knew they would. He knew Satan would tempt Eve to eat from the forbidden tree and it was all His plan from the beginning (Isaiah 46:10). If God did not want Adam & Eve to sin, he would have stopped it: - he wouldn't have put the tree of knowledge of good and evil in the garden (why even bother to create it) - he wouldn't have allowed Satan anywhere near Adam & Eve - in fact he would have got rid of Satan long ago God is giving us an experience of evil so that we will learn humility & righteousness (Ecc 1:13). Hopefully that gives some more perspective from the other side. Cheers, Legoman I know you are trying to help, and I appreciate your efforts, but your post is a prime example of taking what is said and not HEARING what is said. You wrote... Does God not send good & evil?: Job 2:10 But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips. Job was using the term "evil" to mean something that a person hates to have happen to them, NOT referring to sin, wickedness, nor Satanic things. To Job the deaths of his children was no doubt an evil thing, something he hated, but he was not charging God with sin, and he was very careful not to speak foolishly concerning God. OK... I find it interesting that you talk about "not HEARING", and then you go onto say that Job was not charging God with sin, seemingly implying that I am charging God with sin. Maybe your weren't implying that but that is what it sounds like. If you read my post I said very clearly from the top that God does not sin. With respect to Job's situation, the evil that happened to Job was done by Satan's influence. But ultimately it came down to God allowing/permitting Satan to do it for God's purpose. If God didn't want Satan to do it, it wouldn't have happened. God is sovereign over Satan. God doesn't have to give in to anyone. But anyway, read the rest of my post. You only addressed one small portion. Clearly God created the tree of knowledge of good and evil and made it desirable to Adam & Eve (Gen 3:6). Clearly God subjected his creation to vanity and bondage of corruption (Romans 8:20-21). God not only sees the end and the beginning, he declares it and brings it to pass (Isaiah 46:10-11). Yes I 100% agree that God is perfect and without fault. Perhaps here is the misconception: If God created evil, that would be a fault. NOT TRUE. God creates evil for a very good purpose. A perfect purpose. To show us (humanity) what good is. Eventually we will learn and then we will be free from the bondage of corruption (Romans 8:21). This won't happen until we are free of the flesh and are raised with incorruptible spiritual bodies (1 Cor 15:50-55) Corruption must put on incorruption and mortality must put in immortality. Cheers, Legoman I didn't mean to imply that you charged God with sin, and in fact I did read your entire post, and I did indeed only respond to a part of it, just as you only responded to parts of mine, I don't see a problem there? As to God being perfect and without fault, you agree with me 100%. I don't see a problem there. As to Job, he did not charge God with sin nor speak foolishly with his lips. I don't see a problem there. In that all things were made by Him, obviously the tree was made by Him, as was Adam and Eve. Everything that exists was made by Him. I am not implying that you anything, you are not the subject of this thread, and it is not my intention to make you the subject of this thread. If you read some of the posts in this thread, you might get the opinion that God was being charged with a fault, certainly that was what troubled me (not that I read anything by you that charged Him with a fault), and though I responded heatedly initially, I withdrew it, but I still maintain that charging God with a fault is the height of foolishness. Ok, no problem I agree this thread was getting a bit heated with one side vigorously arguing that God must be 100% sovereign and in control of all things and the other side arguing that God cannot be charged with sin. And I think those two views can coexist. I'm just trying to point out (although perhaps unsuccessfully) that it can be God's ultimate sovereign will that sin exist, at least for a season. And this does not make God a sinner - because God is all powerful and has the power to correct anything he wishes. Cheers, Legoman

I don't think those on the "God creates evil" side are "speaking ill of God". Try looking at it from this perspective: God does not sin. God hates sin. I don't think anyone would argue with this. God has a knowledge of good and evil. This does not mean God is evil, but he has knowledge of it. God is the ultimate in goodness. Again I don't think anyone would argue with this. God creates man in his image. In fact, God is still making man in his image. In order to show man what good is, evil is necessary, so God sets up the circumstances of this world so that evil exists. One cannot know what "good" is unless you also know what "evil" is. Does God cause man to sin directly? No. Sin comes from the heart. Man's pride and lust causes him to sin. Example: you lust after a pretty girl that walks by. You just sinned. Did God make you lust after her? No - you did it yourself. BUT... who designed man to be so spiritually weak so that he would give into his lusts? God did! Romans 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, 21Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. We sin because of our lusts and because we are spiritually weak. God designed us that way (Romans 8:20). But it is only temporary and God will deliver us from that bondage eventually (Romans 8:21). Does God not send good & evil?: Job 2:10 But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips. Who was it that created the tree of knowledge of good and evil, and then made it desirable to Adam & Eve, and placed it right where they would see it? God of course. However, again God did not make them sin, but he knew they would. He knew Satan would tempt Eve to eat from the forbidden tree and it was all His plan from the beginning (Isaiah 46:10). If God did not want Adam & Eve to sin, he would have stopped it: - he wouldn't have put the tree of knowledge of good and evil in the garden (why even bother to create it) - he wouldn't have allowed Satan anywhere near Adam & Eve - in fact he would have got rid of Satan long ago God is giving us an experience of evil so that we will learn humility & righteousness (Ecc 1:13). Hopefully that gives some more perspective from the other side. Cheers, Legoman I know you are trying to help, and I appreciate your efforts, but your post is a prime example of taking what is said and not HEARING what is said. You wrote... Does God not send good & evil?: Job 2:10 But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips. Job was using the term "evil" to mean something that a person hates to have happen to them, NOT referring to sin, wickedness, nor Satanic things. To Job the deaths of his children was no doubt an evil thing, something he hated, but he was not charging God with sin, and he was very careful not to speak foolishly concerning God. OK... I find it interesting that you talk about "not HEARING", and then you go onto say that Job was not charging God with sin, seemingly implying that I am charging God with sin. Maybe your weren't implying that but that is what it sounds like. If you read my post I said very clearly from the top that God does not sin. With respect to Job's situation, the evil that happened to Job was done by Satan's influence. But ultimately it came down to God allowing/permitting Satan to do it for God's purpose. If God didn't want Satan to do it, it wouldn't have happened. God is sovereign over Satan. God doesn't have to give in to anyone. But anyway, read the rest of my post. You only addressed one small portion. Clearly God created the tree of knowledge of good and evil and made it desirable to Adam & Eve (Gen 3:6). Clearly God subjected his creation to vanity and bondage of corruption (Romans 8:20-21). God not only sees the end and the beginning, he declares it and brings it to pass (Isaiah 46:10-11). Yes I 100% agree that God is perfect and without fault. Perhaps here is the misconception: If God created evil, that would be a fault. NOT TRUE. God creates evil for a very good purpose. A perfect purpose. To show us (humanity) what good is. Eventually we will learn and then we will be free from the bondage of corruption (Romans 8:21). This won't happen until we are free of the flesh and are raised with incorruptible spiritual bodies (1 Cor 15:50-55) Corruption must put on incorruption and mortality must put in immortality. Cheers, Legoman

I don't think those on the "God creates evil" side are "speaking ill of God". Try looking at it from this perspective: God does not sin. God hates sin. I don't think anyone would argue with this. God has a knowledge of good and evil. This does not mean God is evil, but he has knowledge of it. God is the ultimate in goodness. Again I don't think anyone would argue with this. God creates man in his image. In fact, God is still making man in his image. In order to show man what good is, evil is necessary, so God sets up the circumstances of this world so that evil exists. One cannot know what "good" is unless you also know what "evil" is. Does God cause man to sin directly? No. Sin comes from the heart. Man's pride and lust causes him to sin. Example: you lust after a pretty girl that walks by. You just sinned. Did God make you lust after her? No - you did it yourself. BUT... who designed man to be so spiritually weak so that he would give into his lusts? God did! Romans 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, 21Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. We sin because of our lusts and because we are spiritually weak. God designed us that way (Romans 8:20). But it is only temporary and God will deliver us from that bondage eventually (Romans 8:21). Does God not send good & evil?: Job 2:10 But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips. Who was it that created the tree of knowledge of good and evil, and then made it desirable to Adam & Eve, and placed it right where they would see it? God of course. However, again God did not make them sin, but he knew they would. He knew Satan would tempt Eve to eat from the forbidden tree and it was all His plan from the beginning (Isaiah 46:10). If God did not want Adam & Eve to sin, he would have stopped it: - he wouldn't have put the tree of knowledge of good and evil in the garden (why even bother to create it) - he wouldn't have allowed Satan anywhere near Adam & Eve - in fact he would have got rid of Satan long ago God is giving us an experience of evil so that we will learn humility & righteousness (Ecc 1:13). Hopefully that gives some more perspective from the other side. Cheers, Legoman

James 1:13-14 13 Let no one say when he is tempted,

It cannot be said that Jesus' finished work on the cross could be limited to paying only for the sins of a select few and be biblically accurate in the process. In oder to affect the delieverance of just one individual from sin and eternal separation from God, Jesus had to pay the penalty demanded by God's infinite Justice. The penalty of sin is spiritual death and according to the Bible this death penalty hangs over the entire human race. The problem is that Jesus was not not just dying to save man, but also to satisfy the Father's justice and bring reconciliation. Thus, when Jesus died, he satisfied God's justice and took upon Himself the penalty for sin which hung over the entire human race. He had to satisfy God's justice against all mankind and paid the pentalty of sin which hangs over all of mankind. OK the premise is that Jesus DID pay the debt on every sin for every human being. Can I assume that even those that never heard about the Lord Jesus Christ, primitive tribes in So. America before Jim Elliot, aborigines in Australia, India, etc, that their debts have been paid? LT According to the scriptures that have been posted, I would say Yes those debts have been paid. If their debts have been paid does that mean they will be saved? Will all men be saved? Is that what you are saying? ie. 1 Tim 2:4, 2 Pe 3:9... Legoman

If you did your homework, you would know that God is not referring to moral evil (sin). He is referring to the calamity that comes from judgment. God is not the author of moral evil in any shape or form. God did not create murder, or anything that else that is sinful.I don't ignore or rewrite anything. I simply know hermeneutics and the original languages better than you. You are only trying to read your ghastly doctrines into the Bible. i agree completely In Isaiah 45:7, God makes peace and evil. The Hebrew word for evil is 'Ra'. This is the same word used in describing "the tree of the knowledge of good and evil" ('Ra'). Its not the tree of knowledge of good and calamity. Legoman

James 1:13-14 13 Let no one say when he is tempted,

Amen Let me add another amen. If God did not intend for the world to be in the mess it is currently in, boy did God make a big mistake. Whoops, I thought God was perfect... oh well I guess he'll probably get it right on the 2nd try right? Oh I know it was just our free will that screwed things up. But what about when we are in heaven, won't we still have free will? What if someone chooses to rebel when they are in heaven? OR God actually planned for people to go through the suffering and evil of this current earth. And he actually had a good reason for it. I leave it as an exercise to the reader to figure out what that reason would be... But rest assured we can have some comfort that God is in full control and will restore all at the appropriate time. Cheers, Legoman

Just wanted to comment on this verse (Eph 1:11). YES, it does mean that God works ALL things after the counsel of his own will! That is what the verse says! What is the "counsel of His will"? Simply put it is God's plan. It seems you are suggesting that only the things God does are done after the counsel of his will. True, that should be obvious. But are there some things that are happening on the earth that are not part of his plan? I would suggest that such an assertion could be blasphemous. Is God operating all? 1 Cor 12:6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. Can anyone resist his will? NO. Romans 9:19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? Are all things really from God? 2 Cor 5:18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; But how about God's plan? Did God really plan everything to happen this way? Isaiah 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure What about the details? Surely God is not into every little detail? Matthew 10:29 Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? Yet not one of them will fall to the ground apart from the will of your Father. 30 And even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. But how does God know how many hairs are on our head? Its not because he sits around and counts them. Its because he planned every instance when one of them might fall out! And of course God plans when we will meet our untimely end: Job 14:5 Seeing his days are determined, the number of his months are with thee, thou hast appointed his bounds that he cannot pass And by implication, since God has planned when we will die, he has also planned how we will die. Think on that one for a few months... Cheers, Legoman

100% agree with you here kross. (Just giving you some support from the peanut gallery ). God is in complete control. Everything is going according to God's plan. God is 100% sovereign and man's "free will" won't get in the way... 1 Cor 12:6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. Eph 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will Isaiah 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: 11 Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it. Isaiah 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it. For those that don't believe God intended evil to happen or would even cause evil to happen: Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. Amos 3:6 Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it? Isa 54:16 Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy. God's will ultimately will be done. Romans 9:19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? I fully believe everything in this world is going as God intended it. Cheers, Legoman

Seeing as it is almost Christmas, seemed like a good time to review why Jesus came These verses always give me hope: Acts 16 30He then brought them out and asked, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?" 31They replied, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved

Possibly these scriptures are relevant: Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. Rev 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. From this we can see Jesus was the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world, and also names were (or not) written in the book of life from the foundation of the world. Legoman

Luke 14:26 is talking about "loving less". We should love our family less than we love God. In comparison, our love for God should make our love for our family almost seem like hate. Its not saying we should literally hate our family. Cheers, Legoman

No one can come to the father unless it is the will of the father. He chooses us, we don't choose him. Romans 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. John 6:65 He went on to say, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled him." John 12:32 But I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to myself." John 15:16 You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you to go and bear fruit

Here are some relevant scriptures. Why did Jesus come? To do the work of the Father: John 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me. John 5:36 "I have testimony weightier than that of John. For the very work that the Father has given me to finish, and which I am doing, testifies that the Father has sent me. 2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. What is the work?: Matthew 18:11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost. Luke 19:10 For the Son of Man came to seek and to save what was lost. John 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. 1 Tim 1:15 Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners

I guess you don't think God will be disappointed? Neither do I. LT You are correct sir Ultimately God will not be disappointed. I was going to say that originally but I figure I'd let the scripture speak for itself. Everything is going to God's plan - he has declared it ALL and will bring it all to pass (Isaiah 46:9-11). Legoman

God's will be done: Matt 6:10 your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Isaiah 45: 9 Remember the former things, those of long ago; I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me. 10 I make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times, what is still to come. I say: My purpose will stand, and I will do all that I please. 11 From the east I summon a bird of prey; from a far-off land, a man to fulfill my purpose. What I have said, that will I bring about; what I have planned, that will I do. Isa 55:11 so is my word that goes out from my mouth: It will not return to me empty, but will accomplish what I desire and achieve the purpose for which I sent it. Ultimately I think God's will will be done. Legoman

Here are some additional relavent verses: Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing; they have no further reward, and even the memory of them is forgotten. Ecc 9:10 Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might, for in the grave, [a] where you are going, there is neither working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom. John 3:13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven