Africa & the Bible: the myth of a cursed race

[nebula]

Wow, some here are actually going to try and infer that the Jewish people have not tried to keep their race? When did the Jewish people ever teach that it's OK for them to mix up their own race?

Converts to Judaism were always allowed into their congregation.

In the OT Law, the Lord also gave instructions for how they were to take wives for themselves among the people they conquored, if they chose to do so.

You are failing to produce evidence that the Bible speaks of race - anywhere.

God's Word covers the possibility of two of each race on board the ark, because God told Noah to take two of ALL flesh on board in Gen.6.

Celt - you just lost your argument right here.

The Scriptures are quite clear that Noah, his wife, his sons, and their wives were the only human beings to have entered the ark.

Read Gen. 7

The Deut.23:2 verse is proof that God does not want us to mix our race. It is about one of mixed race not being allowed to enter the congregation of The LORD to the tenth generation, and that applied to Israel in Old Covenant times.

No it is not. You have inserted your own interpretation of the word mamzer. If you want to convince anyone that this word means "mixed race" and not "illigitimate", you need to offer actual evidence.

It is not a Salvation issue today, but it still shows God created all peoples the way He wanted us to appear. Why else would He declare that for Israel? Because like He said, Israel was to be a holy people to Himself. What happens after the offspring of a mixed race continues to marry only in one side? The mixed racial characteristics begin to be purged out, which shows a natural going back to the way God created, and is the opposite of the idea of evolution of species. It stands as Biblical proof that the races did not spring from evolution.[/

What you are proposing actually results in a problem called inbreeding. Cultures where no "new blood' is added to the mix always result in a high percentage of people born with physical deformities.

About Ruth:

Moab was one of the sons of Lot, and Lot was a son of Abraham's brother Haran (Gen.11). There's no reason to try and create a new race from what Lot's two daughters did unto their father. Trying to say that event created a new race is no different than those who try to say the Black race came out of Ham's sin he did unto his father Noah, to produce Canaan. Because God allowed Ruth, a Moabitess, to be a part of Christ's lineage, likewise with Tamar, Bathsheba and Rahab, it's still not reason enough to assume they were different races simply because of coming from different nations.

What you are missing is that Scripture does not state from which nation Moab obtained his wife.

No, I do not believe that all peoples came out of Adam and Eve, for that's the idea of evolution of species. God is not an evolutionist. Eve is not the mother of all peoples simply because of the phrase "mother of all living". She represents the mother of all living in the spiritual sense, because Christ would be born through her seed, as shown in Genesis 3:15.

And your evidence for such a claim is . . . ?

[Guest]

.... inter-racial marriages....

This Non-Biblical Concept Of Race Is Only Supported By Lies Such As The Evolution Speculation And Other Teachings

The Bible Clearly Shows There Is Only One Race, The Human Race

"And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth."

"So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them."

Genesis 1:26-27

And All Marriages Are Between The Sons Of Adam And The Daughters Of Eve

"And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;"

"And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man."

"And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man."

"Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh."

Genesis 2:21-24

And Men And Woman Are Only Saved By Faith

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:"

"Not of works, lest any man should boast."

"For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them."

Ephesians 2:8-10

In The Second Adam

"And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit."

"Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual."

"The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven."

1 Corinthians 15:45-47

Jesus The Christ

"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus."

Galatians 3:28

The LORD

"For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God."

"So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God."

Romans 14:11-12

God The SON

"Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied."

1 Peter 1:2

And Some Would Deny The Father And The Son

"Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son."

1 John 2:22

And From Such A Wolf It Seems To Me, It Would Be Best To Run Run Run

"For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father's, and of the holy angels."

Luke 9:26

To Believe The Bible Over Men Who Would Deny The Power Of The Resurrected God

"For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:"

"And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:"

"Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me."

Job 19:25-27

[Celt]

Celt, the animals on the ark were paired of the same species so they could continue on after their "own kind".

As for mixed races - I'm of mixed parentage and I am also the King's daughter.

I have read the Bible under the continuing guidance of the Holy Spirit and I have not been convicted yet of "race seperation". The Holy Spirit has convicted me personally to be seperated from Spiritually unequal personal relationships but that's it. I can choose a husband from Nigeria, the Ukraine, Britain or Tibet as long as that man is a Born again Christian - in that regard we are on equal footing. Race exclusion for the purpose of marriage is not mentioned in the NT.

Please Celt - understand that "race seperation" is a tool used by satan to divide and demolish relationships with other Christians and also to NOT help those of other countries because of the false notion that they are heathen and are purposed for Hell so why bother helping those that are earmarked for condemnation?

Jesus did not preach a Gospel of hate but love and unity.

We are of "one blood" and as hard as that maybe for some folks to swallow - it is the truth.

Where do many get the false idea that this matter is about hatred of races? Those who began that idea long ago were merely dishing out disinformation to fit their personal political correctness. This idea I'm speaking of from God's Word is in SUPPORT of His creation and in SUPPORT of all the races He created, and God said it was good! I've had Black people come up to me almost crying with tears because they knew very well their race did NOT spring from some curse because of Ham's sin, and I showed Biblically how they are right, they didn't come from some curse. So this matter is not about racial bigotry like some have been falsely fed that it is. Can you imagine how many Black people feel when some illiterate preacher teaches their race came from a curse, especially when that is not Biblical?

I also am part Cherokee Indian, my great-grandmother was half. My grandmother was the last to have any of the Cherokee features and ways, yet she was a very strong Christian woman.

So I'm not preaching "racial separation"; I'm showing how God is The Creator, and how He originally created the races the way He wanted them. That makes us all equal racially, and gets rid of any curse superstitious ideas that have crept in over the centuries from men's doctrines.

And like I said, this is not a Salvation issue since the New Covenant came. But under the Old Covenant, Israel was to remain a separate people per God's Word, and it was not only about marrying into the other nations because of pagan religion, though that was a major part of the reason.

What's really sad, is that a lot of preachers today have gone over to side of Darwinism because of believing the races came out of one man and one woman, some even believing their theories that all peoples came out of Africa. That cannot be supported Biblically.

[Guest HIS girl]

'Celt'

What's really sad, is that a lot of preachers today have gone over to side of Darwinism because of believing the races came out of one man and one woman,

What's really sad Celt is that some preachers and Followers of Christ reject what is in the Bible -

Day 6 - Genesis 1 v 26a- Then God said. "Let Us make man in Our Image, according to Our likeness;" - Preacher Bob, or sister Betty didn't say this but God Himself, straight from the Bible.

v 27- Then God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.

Adam and Eve had all the DNA information to be the "parents" of all other races of the world -

If there were other "people" involved can you show me Scripture supporting this?

some even believing their theories that all peoples came out of Africa. That cannot be supported Biblically.

Can you show me where the "original peoples" started out from?

Some say Mesopotamia, some sear nearer to Egypt but where is it that you believe?

I find it ironic that Jesus would speak to a Samaritan woman - a woman from a "mongrel" race and reveal His majesty to HER, also using another Samaritan in a story to get his point across - "The Good Samaritan"... the Samaritan woman - not only did Jesus break a rule (Rabbis' weren't supposed to speak to women in public) but such a despised woman at that? Jesus came and smashed the ridiculous "ways" of the day and Celt He is still doing that today - I refuse to buy into your "elitist" doctrine. There was one couple that God created to populate this earth and that was Adam and Eve - they were MOST LIKELY brown skinned as ALL the varying skin colours can be produced by this colour tone, REGARDLESS of being in a hot/cold climate. Noah his wife and his sons' and daughters' in-law were the ONLY human beings on the ark that survived the Worldwide flood - it says so in the Bible. If we don't accept the Bible and what God states through it, then you can't really call yourself a Follower Of God - BUT a follow of man only....

Racist attitudes have NO PLACE within the Church and is in fact a satanic mindset.

[nebula]

And like I said, this is not a Salvation issue since the New Covenant came. But under the Old Covenant, Israel was to remain a separate people per God's Word, and it was not only about marrying into the other nations because of pagan religion, though that was a major part of the reason.

Deuteronomy 21:10-14

10 "When you go out to war against your enemies, and the Lord your God delivers them into your hand, and you take them captive, 11 and you see among the captives a beautiful woman, and desire her and would take her for your wife, 12 then you shall bring her home to your house, and she shall shave her head and trim her nails. 13 She shall put off the clothes of her captivity, remain in your house, and mourn her father and her mother a full month; after that you may go in to her and be her husband, and she shall be your wife. 14 And it shall be, if you have no delight in her, then you shall set her free, but you certainly shall not sell her for money; you shall not treat her brutally, because you have humbled her.

The Lord did not forbid the Israelites from marrying people of other nations. Nor is there ever a mention of race involved. The problem was when they took wives who still followed and worshiped their old gods. That was the issue, not genetics.

What's really sad, is that a lot of preachers today have gone over to side of Darwinism because of believing the races came out of one man and one woman,

That's not Darwinian! Darwinian claims the human race came out of a population of evolved "ape ancestors". Darwinian claims populations of people moved to other regions and that population evolved traits to adapt to the region.

Darwinian mocks the idea of the entire human race being started with one man and one woman.

some even believing their theories that all peoples came out of Africa. That cannot be supported Biblically.

Nobody knows where the Garden of Eden was located, nor where Adam and Eve went to after being cast out of the Garden, nor how the earth looked before the Great Flood.

But as for preachers believing in evolution and the like, this theory of yours isn't the counter to that. Your arguments cannot be supported Biblically either, as you have been shown.

[Massorite]

I thought it was real cool.. I never knew that people looked at blacks as a cursed nation. Maybe it's because I was born overseas.. anyway. It was really interesting. I didn't know that Cush was referred to 52 times in the bible or that Cush is Sudan not Ethiopia! Wow... what a huge mistake in Bible translation. So all of Magog's allies will be Muslim nations. How interesting.

I did. Many folks believe that Cain was cursed with being black as his punishment. My research has shown me that Cush and Ethiopia have always been inhabited by black people and have always been exactly where Ethiopia is located geographically today.

[Celt]

Wow, some here are actually going to try and infer that the Jewish people have not tried to keep their race? When did the Jewish people ever teach that it's OK for them to mix up their own race?

Converts to Judaism were always allowed into their congregation.

In the OT Law, the Lord also gave instructions for how they were to take wives for themselves among the people they conquored, if they chose to do so.

You are failing to produce evidence that the Bible speaks of race - anywhere.

God's Word covers the possibility of two of each race on board the ark, because God told Noah to take two of ALL flesh on board in Gen.6.

Celt - you just lost your argument right here.

The Scriptures are quite clear that Noah, his wife, his sons, and their wives were the only human beings to have entered the ark.

Read Gen. 7

The Deut.23:2 verse is proof that God does not want us to mix our race. It is about one of mixed race not being allowed to enter the congregation of The LORD to the tenth generation, and that applied to Israel in Old Covenant times.

No it is not. You have inserted your own interpretation of the word mamzer. If you want to convince anyone that this word means "mixed race" and not "illigitimate", you need to offer actual evidence.

It is not a Salvation issue today, but it still shows God created all peoples the way He wanted us to appear. Why else would He declare that for Israel? Because like He said, Israel was to be a holy people to Himself. What happens after the offspring of a mixed race continues to marry only in one side? The mixed racial characteristics begin to be purged out, which shows a natural going back to the way God created, and is the opposite of the idea of evolution of species. It stands as Biblical proof that the races did not spring from evolution.[/

What you are proposing actually results in a problem called inbreeding. Cultures where no "new blood' is added to the mix always result in a high percentage of people born with physical deformities.

About Ruth:

Moab was one of the sons of Lot, and Lot was a son of Abraham's brother Haran (Gen.11). There's no reason to try and create a new race from what Lot's two daughters did unto their father. Trying to say that event created a new race is no different than those who try to say the Black race came out of Ham's sin he did unto his father Noah, to produce Canaan. Because God allowed Ruth, a Moabitess, to be a part of Christ's lineage, likewise with Tamar, Bathsheba and Rahab, it's still not reason enough to assume they were different races simply because of coming from different nations.

What you are missing is that Scripture does not state from which nation Moab obtained his wife.

No, I do not believe that all peoples came out of Adam and Eve, for that's the idea of evolution of species. God is not an evolutionist. Eve is not the mother of all peoples simply because of the phrase "mother of all living". She represents the mother of all living in the spiritual sense, because Christ would be born through her seed, as shown in Genesis 3:15.

And your evidence for such a claim is . . . ?

I have not found anywhere in the Old Testament commandments where God said it was OK for Israel to marry among the nations. There are plenty of Scriptures which give His direct command to not take wives of other nations, and that He made Israel a separate people, even severed them from other nations (Lev.20:26). Even when speaking of allowing the stranger to come in among Israel, and be treated as one of them, the idea of marriage is not specifically covered; it is assumed only by many (like end of Lev.19). See Ezra 9-10 after the return of a small remnant of Israel for what many of Israel had done while in the Babylon captivity. Even the children of those mixed marriages were separated per the Books of Ezra and Nehemiah. Even the Nethinim foreigner priests that returned with a remnant of Israel from Babylon could not show their genealogy in Israel, and were thus deemed polluted from the priesthood (Ezra 2). That was per the Old Covenant, not the New Covenant.

I realize the word mamzer is considered to mainly mean an offspring out of wedlock, see also Zech.9:6 for its usage.

"Judaism" is about the religion of the Jews, an oral based tradition system which groups like the Pharisees came up with after the return from the Babylon captivity. Christ and His Apostle Paul had many things to say against the religion of the Jews.

The idea about "new blood", so that's why my corrupt college Biology text taught why the royal families of Europe are messed up, because they didn't mix with other races also, but kept to marriages in their own families? Abraham and Sarah were half-sister and half-brother, yet we didn't see the "new blood" idea making a difference with them. A lot of that is just hype by the same ones that want us to believe the false human embyro drawing in Biology texts that looks the same as other animals too.

Concerning Ruth the Moabitess; there's no evidence she was of a different race. The main argument God had against the Moabites was because how they tried to curse Israel, and had fallen into false worship. Even the other son by Lot's daughter was named 'Benammi', which means "son of my people", referring to Lot's people, who was nephew to Abraham a Hebrew. Benammi became the people of Ammon. We are not told specifically where Lot's wife was from, so it's not enough to say she was of a different people.

The evidence that the races did not come out of the man Adam and Eve exists in the Hebrew of Gen.1:26-27, with the difference between the article and particle before the word 'aadam', and also another 'aadam' without which points to mankind in general per the Hebrew. One reads this man Adam, and the other reads 'man'. This is why I believe God created a specific man in His Garden to till the soil, which would represent the seed of the woman from which Christ would come, and He also created all the races and placed them outside His Garden, which is represented by the "land of Nod" from which Cain took his wife from. It points to God creating the man Adam, and all the races on His sixth day, and then He said it was good. Adam and Eve having other sons and daughters is not even mentioned until Genesis 5.

[Celt]

What's really sad Celt is that some preachers and Followers of Christ reject what is in the Bible -

Day 6 - Genesis 1 v 26a- Then God said. "Let Us make man in Our Image, according to Our likeness;"- Preacher Bob, or sister Betty didn't say this but God Himself, straight from the Bible.

v 27- Then God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.

Adam and Eve had all the DNA information to be the "parents" of all other races of the world -

If there were other "people" involved can you show me Scripture supporting this?

Gen 1:26-27

26 And God said, Let Us make man (aadam) in Our image, after Our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

27 So God created man (eth ha aadam) in His own image, in the image of God created He him; male and female created He them.

(KJV)

When aadam appears without the eth and ha, it means mankind in general. But with the eth and ha, it means a specific man. The Our likeness refers to the outer form shape or appearance, i.e. the image of man which God and the angels have. With the eth ha aadam, a greater specific is given with, "in His own image". The KJV translators did not bring forth the different Hebrew rendering of the word aadam in those verses.

Can you show me where the "original peoples" started out from?

Some say Mesopotamia, some sear nearer to Egypt but where is it that you believe?

I'll lead you to it, but because of your attitude against me this is all I'll say on that...

In Genesis 2 with the river that comes out of God's Garden of Eden to feed four other rivers on the earth, where are those other four rivers located? That's all I'll say on that point.

I find it ironic that Jesus would speak to a Samaritan woman - a woman from a "mongrel" race and reveal His majesty to HER, also using another Samaritan in a story to get his point across - "The Good Samaritan"... the Samaritan woman - not only did Jesus break a rule (Rabbis' weren't supposed to speak to women in public) but such a despised woman at that? Jesus came and smashed the ridiculous "ways" of the day and Celt He is still doing that today - I refuse to buy into your "elitist" doctrine. There was one couple that God created to populate this earth and that was Adam and Eve - they were MOST LIKELY brown skinned as ALL the varying skin colours can be produced by this colour tone, REGARDLESS of being in a hot/cold climate. Noah his wife and his sons' and daughters' in-law were the ONLY human beings on the ark that survived the Worldwide flood - it says so in the Bible. If we don't accept the Bible and what God states through it, then you can't really call yourself a Follower Of God - BUT a follow of man only....

Racist attitudes have NO PLACE within the Church and is in fact a satanic mindset.

Hey, you're only making that case against today's orthodox Jews who still hold to the Old Covenant ways of staying separate from the nations. That's where they got that tradition from, per the Old Covenant commandments. But me personally, it still doesn't mean I'm going to go out and seek to marry someone of another race. If others want to do that, that's between them and The LORD. I won't treat those who do differently either. I'm not a racist. How can I be, being also part Cherokee? But don't try and push popular socialist ideas of today into God's Own commandments per the Old Covenant for Israel to stay separate from the nations. You're only arguing against His order He setup then for Israel, and not against me.

[irishcowboy]

I wanted to share this video presentation by Day of Discovery.

I hope it blesses you.

Africa and the Bible: The Myth of a Cursed Race (part 1)

Are all races created equal in God

[Celt]

And like I said, this is not a Salvation issue since the New Covenant came. But under the Old Covenant, Israel was to remain a separate people per God's Word, and it was not only about marrying into the other nations because of pagan religion, though that was a major part of the reason.

Deuteronomy 21:10-14

10 "When you go out to war against your enemies, and the Lord your God delivers them into your hand, and you take them captive, 11 and you see among the captives a beautiful woman, and desire her and would take her for your wife, 12 then you shall bring her home to your house, and she shall shave her head and trim her nails. 13 She shall put off the clothes of her captivity, remain in your house, and mourn her father and her mother a full month; after that you may go in to her and be her husband, and she shall be your wife. 14 And it shall be, if you have no delight in her, then you shall set her free, but you certainly shall not sell her for money; you shall not treat her brutally, because you have humbled her.

The Lord did not forbid the Israelites from marrying people of other nations. Nor is there ever a mention of race involved. The problem was when they took wives who still followed and worshiped their old gods. That was the issue, not genetics.

What's really sad, is that a lot of preachers today have gone over to side of Darwinism because of believing the races came out of one man and one woman,

That's not Darwinian! Darwinian claims the human race came out of a population of evolved "ape ancestors". Darwinian claims populations of people moved to other regions and that population evolved traits to adapt to the region.

Darwinian mocks the idea of the entire human race being started with one man and one woman.

some even believing their theories that all peoples came out of Africa. That cannot be supported Biblically.

Nobody knows where the Garden of Eden was located, nor where Adam and Eve went to after being cast out of the Garden, nor how the earth looked before the Great Flood.

But as for preachers believing in evolution and the like, this theory of yours isn't the counter to that. Your arguments cannot be supported Biblically either, as you have been shown.

That Deut.21 Scripture must be read in context of the previous Deut.20 chapter, where God told Israel to literally wipe out the peoples in the land of inheritance He gave to Israel. Like I've already shown with children of Lot, many of the nations outside Canaan had a link with Abraham's family. That's who the Deut.21 Scripture applies to, and not to the nations of Canaan. When Esau married a daughter of Canaan, Isaac and Rebekah showed concern, but not when he also married a daughter of Ishmael. Yet what did his brother Jacob do? He married within his own family of Hebrews like he was told.

The theories of evolution covers small theoretical changes within a specie also, like that of skin pigment color. If that is according to God's creation, then it would mean a working He set forth in nature, and it should still be happenning today. Yet there's no evidence for it today creating new races, nor in His Word. Instead, evidence in His Word is against such an idea of evolving skin colors (Jer.13:23).

Here's an inscription quote by an Assyriologist about Sargon who came to ancient Babylonia-Sumer:

"For forty-five years [the number of years is admittedly undecipherable] the kingdom I have ruled, and the black heads (or black) race I have governed. In multitudes of bronze chariots I rode over rugged lands. I governed the upper countries (Assyria, etc.). Three times to the sea I have advanced." (Ragozin's Chaldea, pp. 205-207.)

Early Assyriologists (like Sayce and Hilprecht) documented Sargon's reign back to 3790 B.C. Sargon suddenly appears in the Sumerians early history, building the first city, giving them knowledge of agriculture and the sciences, etc. Something to note is that 3790 B.C. was long before the date for the flood of Noah. Also something to note; per bishop Ussher's Bible chronology (17th century) of going back from the time of Christ to the man Adam, the date of the man Adam in God's Garden was around 4004 B.C. The Assyriologists discovered Sargon's facial mask also, which is still in the British Museum. Sargon had what the Assyriologists called Semitic features, yet Shem wasn't even born in Sargon's time.

The main point is, there's archeological evidence to show that the Black race existed back to Sargon's time, around 3790 B.C., long before Noah's flood, and quite close to the time of the man Adam (a mere 200 or so years difference). And, a man of Semitic features came among them (Sargon), advanced their culture, built their first city, and ruled over the ancient Sumerians (before it was Babylonia or Assyria-Babylon). And out of that also came another account of the creation, a version which more and more pastors subscribe to, simply because its archaeological record is older than the oldest Old Testament manuscripts (I personally do not subscribe to the Assyrian Tablet creation account, but the Biblical account instead.) Along with that, Sargon started the ancient pagan ideologies and religion which transferred to ancient Egypt and the Far East. So the archeological record does reveal the existence of the Black race even before the flood of Noah.