BlindSeeker Posted February 23, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 69 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,041 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 426 Days Won: 5 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted February 23, 2009 We've been over all this "dragon" and Revelation Babylon before on another thread, and it isn't Rome, nor the USA... The Revelation Babylon harlot is a 'city', and it's endtime Jerusalem, for that's where the beast that ascends up out of the bottomless pit in the last days to kill God's "two witnesses" who will testify in Jerusalem. Rev 17:18 18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth. (KJV) Rev 11:7-8 7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them. 8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. (KJV) Lot of speculation out there put forth by false prophets, but this is really easy to grasp if one stays with what is written there in God's Word, instead of listening to the doctrines of men. Thank for the thorough expository . . . most people simply state their opinion as fact. Perhaps you could further expound on how all the merchants were made rich by her and how she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously? Plus, who is the 8th that goes into destruction? . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larryt Posted February 23, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 52 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,230 Content Per Day: 0.31 Reputation: 124 Days Won: 1 Joined: 08/22/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/03/1952 Share Posted February 23, 2009 We've been over all this "dragon" and Revelation Babylon before on another thread, and it isn't Rome, nor the USA... The Revelation Babylon harlot is a 'city', and it's endtime Jerusalem, for that's where the beast that ascends up out of the bottomless pit in the last days to kill God's "two witnesses" who will testify in Jerusalem. Rev 17:18 18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth. (KJV) Rev 11:7-8 7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them. 8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. (KJV) Lot of speculation out there put forth by false prophets, but this is really easy to grasp if one stays with what is written there in God's Word, instead of listening to the doctrines of men. Thank for the thorough expository . . . most people simply state their opinion as fact. Perhaps you could further expound on how all the merchants were made rich by her and how she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously? Plus, who is the 8th that goes into destruction? . Hi Blindseeker, For me to give an answer to the first question might involve a conspiracy theory. The second is an interesting one though. The key is the eight is of the seven. Understanding who or what the sixth and seventh are is also interesting. I only have some ideas right now and nothing definitive but things are progressing and the end is getting closer. I think we will all be surprised when everything is finally fully revealed. LT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celt Posted February 23, 2009 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 258 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/04/2008 Status: Offline Share Posted February 23, 2009 I will cover it this way... Rev 17:7-18 7 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns. Two different 'beasts' mentioned in Rev.13. The first in Rev.13:1 comes out of the 'sea' and we are told by Christ the waters means peoples, multitudes, nations, and tongues. The first beast is a kingdom over peoples on the earth (Rev.17:15). But the "another beast" John saw beginning at Rev.13:11 forward is an entity, one that speaks as the "dragon". And per Rev.12:9, we know the "dragon" is another title for the devil himself. Which 'beast' is this one of verse 7? It's the first beast, a system or kingdom upon the earth, comparable to those prior beast kingdoms given from Daniel in Rev.13. The "woman" is a city we are told at the end of this chapter, and it's that first beast kingdom that carries her. 8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. Which 'beast' is this, the first or second? It's the second one mentioned in Rev.13:11 forward, an entity working great wonders and miracles in the sight of men on earth. In Rev.11 we are shown this second beast ascends out of the bottomless pit to kill God's two witnesses, in Jerusalem. That's that same "another beast" of Rev.13:11 that comes up out of the "earth". He represents false worship, and he is compared with the "dragon", another title for the devil per Rev.12:9. The "son of perdition" is another one of Satan's titles, because he is already judged and sentenced to perish in the lake of fire. This also is why his name is rendered as "Apollyon" in Rev.9:11, and there we are told he is "the angel of the bottomless pit". 9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. 10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. Since the Rev.11 events about that second beast is linked with this, it means Jerusalem is an important part of this prophecy here. Those past beast kingdoms of Daniel came upon Jerusalem and at times caused abominations there, particularly in association with false religion and the destruction of two Temples. Thus the previous kings that were fallen of the pagan nations afflicted Jerusalem. Rome would represent the 6th in the days of John the Apostle. All those previous kings were flesh men. The seventh, the one that is not yet come, and when he does come he must continue a "short space". The 7th king is the devil himself coming in the last days prior to Christ's return. That's the second beast, the angel of the bottomless pit that is to ascend out of the pit to Jerusalem and kill God's two witnesses there. That is the king which Rev.9 says is the "angel of the bottomless pit", Apollyon in the Greek, and Abaddon in Hebrew, meaning 'the Destroyer'. Rev.9 gives that as a 6th trumpet timing, on the second 'woe', and Christ's coming to defeat him as the 7th trumpet timing and third last woe. The devil when he realizes he's been cast down to this earth, he goes to persecute the saints, "because he knoweth that he hath but a short time" (Rev.12:12). That's the "short space" of time he as the 7th king must continue, as it's about the tribulation time. 11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition. The "beast that was, and is not" links us back to the subject of verse 8, where it says, "The beast that thous sawest was, and is not". We are told there it's one who will ascend out of the bottomless pit and then go into perdition (i.e., perish). And that those who's names are not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world will wonder at him. Again, that's the devil himself. Verse 8 is not about post Milennium timing; it's about the events of Revelation leading up to the 7th trumpet just before Christ returns. Per Rev.20, we are told at the end of Christ's future thousand years reign on earth, that Satan will be released from the pit to go lead the nations up against the "camp of the saints" at the "holy city". That is how Satan represents the eighth king. And again, we are told that one is already set to go into perdition, meaning the lake of fire. Even at this time in our day, only the devil and his angels have already been judged and sentenced to perish. No one else is judged and sentenced until AFTER Christ's future thousand years reign. If it's easy to understand Rev.20 that Satan is released out of the pit to deceive the nations in coming against the holy city after Christ's reign, then how difficult is it to fathom that's also who ascends up out of the bottomless pit to Jerusalem in the last days, prior to Christ's second coming? If the eighth is Satan himself, then how is he "of the seven" prior kings? God gave us comparisons through His Old Testament prophets between past pagan flesh kings and Satan (Ezek.28; 31; Isaiah 14 especially). It means the devil has been over those past flesh pagan kings of history. But the very last days is to be different involving the type of king, for the devil is going to play that role himself in the last days, and also once again after Christ's Milennium, and then finally perish in the lake of fire. 12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. 13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast. These ten kings receive power "one hour" with which beast, the first or the second? The second beast, Satan. In Rev.9 we are told the locust army have crowns on their heads, and have the faces of men, meaning they are men. And they have a king over them, the angel of the bottomless pit (Satan). They will receive power when Satan comes for that "one hour", which is another symbol for the tribulation time that has been shortened for the sake of Christ's elect. 14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for He is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with Him are called, and chosen, and faithful. That war is described later in Rev.16; it's about Armageddon. That's the battle Christ and the asleep saints fight at His coming, the asleep saints being those Paul said Christ would bring with Him when He comes in 1 Thess.4. It's the prophecy Enoch gave about Christ's coming with ten thousands of His saints in the Book of Jude. The only other possible time that kind of battle between our Lord Jesus Christ and Satan could have happenned might have been during Satan's original overthrow. It certainly has never happened during this world age, yet. 15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues. That's describing the first beast of Rev.13:1, the beast that comes up out of the 'sea', or "waters" here, which means a system over the whole earth, over all nations. In the Old Testament prophets, God said it was His intent to assemble the kingdoms, and gather the nations to bring them upon Jerusalem in final so as to pour out His indignation upon them, and that the whole earth would be devoured by the fire of His jealousy (Zeph.3). Ezekiel 38 & 39 describes the nations that are to come upon the mountains of Israel for that final battle of Armageddon. A revived Roman empire is NOT mentioned among those nations, nor are any of the areas of the western Christian nations. But, nations pointing to the northern quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, Tubal, Meshech, Rosh (northern quarters of the earth, which most likely includes Russia), Persia (Iraq), Libya, Gomer (Black Sea area), Togarmah (area near Turkey or Armenia), Ethiopia (which probably means Sudan, which used to be part of old Ethiopia, and is heavily anti-Israel today). Is it strange that today we can see those nations tied together in supporting terrorism against Israel and the western Christian nations 16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire. The ten horns are those ten powers over the earth, ten kings that are to rule with Satan for "one hour". They will hate Jerusalem, and make her desolate and naked, which is about the eventual setting up of the "abomination that maketh desolate" of Daniel 11:31, which also Christ mentioned being set in the "holy place" in Jerusalem (Matt.24:15). In times past, God compared Jerusalem to a harlot city when it was under the power of false worship (Ezek.16). Isaiah made the same comparisons in his day about Jerusalem and Judah in a fallen state away from God (Isa.1:21). 17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil His will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled. All the world leaders will be on that plan to give up their power under control to the beast. It's God's will they do so. 18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth. (KJV) That this is speaking of Jerusalem, for most it will remain a mystery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlindSeeker Posted February 23, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 69 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,041 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 426 Days Won: 5 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted February 23, 2009 I will cover it this way... Rev 17:7-18 7 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns. Two different 'beasts' mentioned in Rev.13. The first in Rev.13:1 comes out of the 'sea' and we are told by Christ the waters means peoples, multitudes, nations, and tongues. The first beast is a kingdom over peoples on the earth (Rev.17:15). But the "another beast" John saw beginning at Rev.13:11 forward is an entity, one that speaks as the "dragon". And per Rev.12:9, we know the "dragon" is another title for the devil himself. Which 'beast' is this one of verse 7? It's the first beast, a system or kingdom upon the earth, comparable to those prior beast kingdoms given from Daniel in Rev.13. The "woman" is a city we are told at the end of this chapter, and it's that first beast kingdom that carries her. 8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. Which 'beast' is this, the first or second? It's the second one mentioned in Rev.13:11 forward, an entity working great wonders and miracles in the sight of men on earth. In Rev.11 we are shown this second beast ascends out of the bottomless pit to kill God's two witnesses, in Jerusalem. That's that same "another beast" of Rev.13:11 that comes up out of the "earth". He represents false worship, and he is compared with the "dragon", another title for the devil per Rev.12:9. The "son of perdition" is another one of Satan's titles, because he is already judged and sentenced to perish in the lake of fire. This also is why his name is rendered as "Apollyon" in Rev.9:11, and there we are told he is "the angel of the bottomless pit". 9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. 10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. Since the Rev.11 events about that second beast is linked with this, it means Jerusalem is an important part of this prophecy here. Those past beast kingdoms of Daniel came upon Jerusalem and at times caused abominations there, particularly in association with false religion and the destruction of two Temples. Thus the previous kings that were fallen of the pagan nations afflicted Jerusalem. Rome would represent the 6th in the days of John the Apostle. All those previous kings were flesh men. The seventh, the one that is not yet come, and when he does come he must continue a "short space". The 7th king is the devil himself coming in the last days prior to Christ's return. That's the second beast, the angel of the bottomless pit that is to ascend out of the pit to Jerusalem and kill God's two witnesses there. That is the king which Rev.9 says is the "angel of the bottomless pit", Apollyon in the Greek, and Abaddon in Hebrew, meaning 'the Destroyer'. Rev.9 gives that as a 6th trumpet timing, on the second 'woe', and Christ's coming to defeat him as the 7th trumpet timing and third last woe. The devil when he realizes he's been cast down to this earth, he goes to persecute the saints, "because he knoweth that he hath but a short time" (Rev.12:12). That's the "short space" of time he as the 7th king must continue, as it's about the tribulation time. 11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition. The "beast that was, and is not" links us back to the subject of verse 8, where it says, "The beast that thous sawest was, and is not". We are told there it's one who will ascend out of the bottomless pit and then go into perdition (i.e., perish). And that those who's names are not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world will wonder at him. Again, that's the devil himself. Verse 8 is not about post Milennium timing; it's about the events of Revelation leading up to the 7th trumpet just before Christ returns. Per Rev.20, we are told at the end of Christ's future thousand years reign on earth, that Satan will be released from the pit to go lead the nations up against the "camp of the saints" at the "holy city". That is how Satan represents the eighth king. And again, we are told that one is already set to go into perdition, meaning the lake of fire. Even at this time in our day, only the devil and his angels have already been judged and sentenced to perish. No one else is judged and sentenced until AFTER Christ's future thousand years reign. If it's easy to understand Rev.20 that Satan is released out of the pit to deceive the nations in coming against the holy city after Christ's reign, then how difficult is it to fathom that's also who ascends up out of the bottomless pit to Jerusalem in the last days, prior to Christ's second coming? If the eighth is Satan himself, then how is he "of the seven" prior kings? God gave us comparisons through His Old Testament prophets between past pagan flesh kings and Satan (Ezek.28; 31; Isaiah 14 especially). It means the devil has been over those past flesh pagan kings of history. But the very last days is to be different involving the type of king, for the devil is going to play that role himself in the last days, and also once again after Christ's Milennium, and then finally perish in the lake of fire. 12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. 13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast. These ten kings receive power "one hour" with which beast, the first or the second? The second beast, Satan. In Rev.9 we are told the locust army have crowns on their heads, and have the faces of men, meaning they are men. And they have a king over them, the angel of the bottomless pit (Satan). They will receive power when Satan comes for that "one hour", which is another symbol for the tribulation time that has been shortened for the sake of Christ's elect. 14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for He is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with Him are called, and chosen, and faithful. That war is described later in Rev.16; it's about Armageddon. That's the battle Christ and the asleep saints fight at His coming, the asleep saints being those Paul said Christ would bring with Him when He comes in 1 Thess.4. It's the prophecy Enoch gave about Christ's coming with ten thousands of His saints in the Book of Jude. The only other possible time that kind of battle between our Lord Jesus Christ and Satan could have happenned might have been during Satan's original overthrow. It certainly has never happened during this world age, yet. 15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues. That's describing the first beast of Rev.13:1, the beast that comes up out of the 'sea', or "waters" here, which means a system over the whole earth, over all nations. In the Old Testament prophets, God said it was His intent to assemble the kingdoms, and gather the nations to bring them upon Jerusalem in final so as to pour out His indignation upon them, and that the whole earth would be devoured by the fire of His jealousy (Zeph.3). Ezekiel 38 & 39 describes the nations that are to come upon the mountains of Israel for that final battle of Armageddon. A revived Roman empire is NOT mentioned among those nations, nor are any of the areas of the western Christian nations. But, nations pointing to the northern quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, Tubal, Meshech, Rosh (northern quarters of the earth, which most likely includes Russia), Persia (Iraq), Libya, Gomer (Black Sea area), Togarmah (area near Turkey or Armenia), Ethiopia (which probably means Sudan, which used to be part of old Ethiopia, and is heavily anti-Israel today). Is it strange that today we can see those nations tied together in supporting terrorism against Israel and the western Christian nations 16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire. The ten horns are those ten powers over the earth, ten kings that are to rule with Satan for "one hour". They will hate Jerusalem, and make her desolate and naked, which is about the eventual setting up of the "abomination that maketh desolate" of Daniel 11:31, which also Christ mentioned being set in the "holy place" in Jerusalem (Matt.24:15). In times past, God compared Jerusalem to a harlot city when it was under the power of false worship (Ezek.16). Isaiah made the same comparisons in his day about Jerusalem and Judah in a fallen state away from God (Isa.1:21). 17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil His will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled. All the world leaders will be on that plan to give up their power under control to the beast. It's God's will they do so. 18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth. (KJV) That this is speaking of Jerusalem, for most it will remain a mystery. 1). Why isn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larryt Posted February 23, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 52 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,230 Content Per Day: 0.31 Reputation: 124 Days Won: 1 Joined: 08/22/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/03/1952 Share Posted February 23, 2009 I will cover it this way... Rev 17:7-18 7 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns. Two different 'beasts' mentioned in Rev.13. The first in Rev.13:1 comes out of the 'sea' and we are told by Christ the waters means peoples, multitudes, nations, and tongues. The first beast is a kingdom over peoples on the earth (Rev.17:15). But the "another beast" John saw beginning at Rev.13:11 forward is an entity, one that speaks as the "dragon". And per Rev.12:9, we know the "dragon" is another title for the devil himself. Which 'beast' is this one of verse 7? It's the first beast, a system or kingdom upon the earth, comparable to those prior beast kingdoms given from Daniel in Rev.13. The "woman" is a city we are told at the end of this chapter, and it's that first beast kingdom that carries her. 8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. Which 'beast' is this, the first or second? It's the second one mentioned in Rev.13:11 forward, an entity working great wonders and miracles in the sight of men on earth. In Rev.11 we are shown this second beast ascends out of the bottomless pit to kill God's two witnesses, in Jerusalem. That's that same "another beast" of Rev.13:11 that comes up out of the "earth". He represents false worship, and he is compared with the "dragon", another title for the devil per Rev.12:9. The "son of perdition" is another one of Satan's titles, because he is already judged and sentenced to perish in the lake of fire. This also is why his name is rendered as "Apollyon" in Rev.9:11, and there we are told he is "the angel of the bottomless pit". 9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. 10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. Since the Rev.11 events about that second beast is linked with this, it means Jerusalem is an important part of this prophecy here. Those past beast kingdoms of Daniel came upon Jerusalem and at times caused abominations there, particularly in association with false religion and the destruction of two Temples. Thus the previous kings that were fallen of the pagan nations afflicted Jerusalem. Rome would represent the 6th in the days of John the Apostle. All those previous kings were flesh men. The seventh, the one that is not yet come, and when he does come he must continue a "short space". The 7th king is the devil himself coming in the last days prior to Christ's return. That's the second beast, the angel of the bottomless pit that is to ascend out of the pit to Jerusalem and kill God's two witnesses there. That is the king which Rev.9 says is the "angel of the bottomless pit", Apollyon in the Greek, and Abaddon in Hebrew, meaning 'the Destroyer'. Rev.9 gives that as a 6th trumpet timing, on the second 'woe', and Christ's coming to defeat him as the 7th trumpet timing and third last woe. The devil when he realizes he's been cast down to this earth, he goes to persecute the saints, "because he knoweth that he hath but a short time" (Rev.12:12). That's the "short space" of time he as the 7th king must continue, as it's about the tribulation time. 11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition. The "beast that was, and is not" links us back to the subject of verse 8, where it says, "The beast that thous sawest was, and is not". We are told there it's one who will ascend out of the bottomless pit and then go into perdition (i.e., perish). And that those who's names are not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world will wonder at him. Again, that's the devil himself. Verse 8 is not about post Milennium timing; it's about the events of Revelation leading up to the 7th trumpet just before Christ returns. Per Rev.20, we are told at the end of Christ's future thousand years reign on earth, that Satan will be released from the pit to go lead the nations up against the "camp of the saints" at the "holy city". That is how Satan represents the eighth king. And again, we are told that one is already set to go into perdition, meaning the lake of fire. Even at this time in our day, only the devil and his angels have already been judged and sentenced to perish. No one else is judged and sentenced until AFTER Christ's future thousand years reign. If it's easy to understand Rev.20 that Satan is released out of the pit to deceive the nations in coming against the holy city after Christ's reign, then how difficult is it to fathom that's also who ascends up out of the bottomless pit to Jerusalem in the last days, prior to Christ's second coming? If the eighth is Satan himself, then how is he "of the seven" prior kings? God gave us comparisons through His Old Testament prophets between past pagan flesh kings and Satan (Ezek.28; 31; Isaiah 14 especially). It means the devil has been over those past flesh pagan kings of history. But the very last days is to be different involving the type of king, for the devil is going to play that role himself in the last days, and also once again after Christ's Milennium, and then finally perish in the lake of fire. 12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. 13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast. These ten kings receive power "one hour" with which beast, the first or the second? The second beast, Satan. In Rev.9 we are told the locust army have crowns on their heads, and have the faces of men, meaning they are men. And they have a king over them, the angel of the bottomless pit (Satan). They will receive power when Satan comes for that "one hour", which is another symbol for the tribulation time that has been shortened for the sake of Christ's elect. 14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for He is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with Him are called, and chosen, and faithful. That war is described later in Rev.16; it's about Armageddon. That's the battle Christ and the asleep saints fight at His coming, the asleep saints being those Paul said Christ would bring with Him when He comes in 1 Thess.4. It's the prophecy Enoch gave about Christ's coming with ten thousands of His saints in the Book of Jude. The only other possible time that kind of battle between our Lord Jesus Christ and Satan could have happenned might have been during Satan's original overthrow. It certainly has never happened during this world age, yet. 15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues. That's describing the first beast of Rev.13:1, the beast that comes up out of the 'sea', or "waters" here, which means a system over the whole earth, over all nations. In the Old Testament prophets, God said it was His intent to assemble the kingdoms, and gather the nations to bring them upon Jerusalem in final so as to pour out His indignation upon them, and that the whole earth would be devoured by the fire of His jealousy (Zeph.3). Ezekiel 38 & 39 describes the nations that are to come upon the mountains of Israel for that final battle of Armageddon. A revived Roman empire is NOT mentioned among those nations, nor are any of the areas of the western Christian nations. But, nations pointing to the northern quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, Tubal, Meshech, Rosh (northern quarters of the earth, which most likely includes Russia), Persia (Iraq), Libya, Gomer (Black Sea area), Togarmah (area near Turkey or Armenia), Ethiopia (which probably means Sudan, which used to be part of old Ethiopia, and is heavily anti-Israel today). Is it strange that today we can see those nations tied together in supporting terrorism against Israel and the western Christian nations 16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire. The ten horns are those ten powers over the earth, ten kings that are to rule with Satan for "one hour". They will hate Jerusalem, and make her desolate and naked, which is about the eventual setting up of the "abomination that maketh desolate" of Daniel 11:31, which also Christ mentioned being set in the "holy place" in Jerusalem (Matt.24:15). In times past, God compared Jerusalem to a harlot city when it was under the power of false worship (Ezek.16). Isaiah made the same comparisons in his day about Jerusalem and Judah in a fallen state away from God (Isa.1:21). 17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil His will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled. All the world leaders will be on that plan to give up their power under control to the beast. It's God's will they do so. 18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth. (KJV) That this is speaking of Jerusalem, for most it will remain a mystery. 1). Why isn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest yod Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 The woman on the beast is a symbol of Europe. It has been this way since Tyre and Sidon. It began with a legend of Zeus appearing as a bull and taking Europa, daughter of the King of Tyre to the island of Crete to rape her. This place is still known today as the Cave of Zeus and is where Greek philosophy and culture came from. Every european knows this. That is why the symbol of a woman riding a beast is still the symbol of Europe. And a "harlot" is a false religion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlindSeeker Posted February 23, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 69 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,041 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 426 Days Won: 5 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted February 23, 2009 The woman on the beast is a symbol of Europe. It has been this way since Tyre and Sidon. It began with a legend of Zeus appearing as a bull and taking Europa, daughter of the King of Tyre to the island of Crete to rape her. This place is still known today as the Cave of Zeus and is where Greek philosophy and culture came from. Every european knows this. That is why the symbol of a woman riding a beast is still the symbol of Europe. And a "harlot" is a false religion Why wasn't the woman riding the beast in Rev. 13 then when it rises up out of the sea? How did Europe rise up out of the sea? What is the symbolism meaning? What and why then are the ten horns? What and why the seven heads and not just the head of a bull? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricH Posted February 23, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 366 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 10,933 Content Per Day: 1.57 Reputation: 212 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/21/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted February 23, 2009 Is there any mention anywhere in scripture of the US? Not in a way that is completely evident before the fact. Maybe after the fact we will be able to see more clearly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest yod Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Why wasn't the woman riding the beast in Rev. 13 then when it rises up out of the sea? There is no woman in Rev 13 so the answer to that seems obvious to me. The Beast(s) of Rev 13 are different than the Woman riding a Beast in Rev 17. They are 2 different symbols describing 2 different events. The woman represents a harlot, which is always a symbol of RELIGION ironically (or not) and having her riding a beast symbolized arising in Europe. And it appears that Rev 13 is speaking of 2 kingdoms allied together and it appears that woman will be destroyed by the Beast of Rev 13. Why do you think they must be related? How did Europe rise up out of the sea? What is the symbolism meaning? Haven't researched it a lot so I will speculate like everyone else here. The sea seems to represent an international kingdom...a kingdom sitting upon many waters. A kingdom that can project miltary power through the oceans What and why then are the ten horns? A horn is always representative of military strength. Again, this seems obvious that it's talking about 10 kingdoms who are allied and/or the core of this greater Beast. What and why the seven heads and not just the head of a bull? the chapter interprets what the seven heads are. The beast is a kingdom ruled by a city on seven hills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlindSeeker Posted February 24, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 69 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,041 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 426 Days Won: 5 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted February 24, 2009 Why wasn't the woman riding the beast in Rev. 13 then when it rises up out of the sea? There is no woman in Rev 13 so the answer to that seems obvious to me. The Beast(s) of Rev 13 are different than the Woman riding a Beast in Rev 17. They are 2 different symbols describing 2 different events. The woman represents a harlot, which is always a symbol of RELIGION ironically (or not) and having her riding a beast symbolized arising in Europe. I would agree with the Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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