Christian Ministry Called Terrorist Threat by Government

[Massorite]

They are merely mentioned in the report and were not called Terrorist in the report. And I question the behavior of anyone who behaves with the tactics that these people use. No one hates abortion more than I do, but this obscenity and hatefulness is just counter in belief to my Christian beliefs. These poor babies are being exploited and victimized again and I doubt the veracity of statements that women have turned away from abortion clinics just because they saw the photos. What about showing huge pictures of healthy, happy babies with their mothers? Showing healthy happy children at all ages instead of this vile obscene material you show??

Showing pictures of healthy babies with their mothers is what the abortion fight started out with long ago and it didn't work. But you show somebody what a dead baby looks like all chopped up after an abortion and it will make an impression.

Did you ever consider that God has called them to do what they do? I mean what could be more radical then to call your only son to become a tortured bloody spectacle to be mocked in front of hundreds when He didn't even commit sin?

I do believe that there is a line which should not be crossed in the battle against abortion but putting graphic pictures of reality in the faces of those who are about to or who have already committed an atrocity that is far worse then showing the pictures. Is not beyond what God has already done in the bible and in fact doesn't even come close to what to the radical stuff God has already done in the bible. Like striking a man dead just because he spilled his seed on the ground. Or killing a man when all he did was to put his hands on the ark to keep it from falling to the ground. Or how about making the enemies of Israel turn on each other in the battle field and kill each other by the hundreds of thousands.

How do these things compare to showing graphic pictures of the truth?

What statistical evidence do you have that shows these tactics are successful in stemming the tide of abortions?? I would like to know how viewing the nearly pornographic vile pictures of little children who never had a chance at survival has made a difference in a growing trend in abortions?? Sadly it hasn't and all it does do is take away the dignity of these lifeless precious babies and puts them on sideshow display! The growth of Crisis Pregnancy Clinics that counsel young women and give them a place to have babies and live and go to school while there are adoption services offered would make more sense than this horrific practice that is graphic grandstanding and doesn't really have a mass effect on women using the services of abortion clinics. It's a practice that must stop and is horrific to me and other Christians... but these practices do nothing more than offer disgusting shock value.

You asked me a question knowing that there is no statistical evidence or at least I don't know of any but there might be some. I do know from the method does work on some and doesn't on others.

But I can say that you are going a long way out of your way to defend your position. Where in the world do you get pornography out pictures of dead babies. Best I can tell I have never seen a picture of a dead and chopped up dead baby that was exited. I have never seen one that was in a pornographic pose or committing sexual acts with another dead baby or anything at all of a sexual nature.

This thread got started because the government has listed this ministry as a terrorist threat and their methods are not a terroristic in nature. But unfortunately you seem to classify gross pictures as being terroristic and pornographic which to me makes you a very mixed up brother. Any group that is labeled a terroristic threat is labeled that because they are considered to be TERRORISTS by those who have labeled them. They are radical and gross BUT THOSE PICTURES ARE THE RESULTS OF ABORTIONS OR SHALL WE SAY WANTON MURDER not the acts of terrorists. If anything those who work for those abortion clinics and do the abortions should be called terrorists because their life revolves around killing babies by any means possible that are allowed by the laws of this country.

If fact I would say that since you are on the side of the government who calls this ministry a terroristic threat when they have not committed a terroristic act but the abortion clinics do commit terroristic acts, that you fit into the category of being a terrorist sympathizer.

I am not defending the graphic pictures nor am I against them. I am saying that the ministry should not be considered a terroristic threat. Because they have not committed a terroristic act of violence.

One day all Christians will be labeled terrorists because we will not abide by the laws of the land because we will be abiding by the laws of God. We will be a government with in a government. The fact is that the pro-choicers are going to win this fight. Why? Because God said so. And so will the gay agenda and many other forms of antichrist movements. Why? Because in order for prophetic scripture to be fulfilled Iniquity must abound so much so that the love of many shall wax cold. The lawlessness of God's laws will consume the world and the pro-choice movement is only a part of a much larger antichrist movement.

If you don't appreciate those pictures fine. But stop calling a radical Christian based ministry that does not commit terroristic acts as though they do. Open your eyes and see what is happening for what it is. Which is calling non terroristic acts as if they were. This is just the beginning before to long they will be labeling all ministries a "terroristic threat". It is coming and no body can stop it. Wake up and smell the coffee.

[lifeandliberty]

They are merely mentioned in the report and were not called Terrorist in the report. And I question the behavior of anyone who behaves with the tactics that these people use. No one hates abortion more than I do, but this obscenity and hatefulness is just counter in belief to my Christian beliefs. These poor babies are being exploited and victimized again and I doubt the veracity of statements that women have turned away from abortion clinics just because they saw the photos. What about showing huge pictures of healthy, happy babies with their mothers? Showing healthy happy children at all ages instead of this vile obscene material you show??

Showing pictures of healthy babies with their mothers is what the abortion fight started out with long ago and it didn't work. But you show somebody what a dead baby looks like all chopped up after an abortion and it will make an impression.

Did you ever consider that God has called them to do what they do? I mean what could be more radical then to call your only son to become a tortured bloody spectacle to be mocked in front of hundreds when He didn't even commit sin?

I do believe that there is a line which should not be crossed in the battle against abortion but putting graphic pictures of reality in the faces of those who are about to or who have already committed an atrocity that is far worse then showing the pictures. Is not beyond what God has already done in the bible and in fact doesn't even come close to what to the radical stuff God has already done in the bible. Like striking a man dead just because he spilled his seed on the ground. Or killing a man when all he did was to put his hands on the ark to keep it from falling to the ground. Or how about making the enemies of Israel turn on each other in the battle field and kill each other by the hundreds of thousands.

How do these things compare to showing graphic pictures of the truth?

What statistical evidence do you have that shows these tactics are successful in stemming the tide of abortions?? I would like to know how viewing the nearly pornographic vile pictures of little children who never had a chance at survival has made a difference in a growing trend in abortions?? Sadly it hasn't and all it does do is take away the dignity of these lifeless precious babies and puts them on sideshow display! The growth of Crisis Pregnancy Clinics that counsel young women and give them a place to have babies and live and go to school while there are adoption services offered would make more sense than this horrific practice that is graphic grandstanding and doesn't really have a mass effect on women using the services of abortion clinics. It's a practice that must stop and is horrific to me and other Christians... but these practices do nothing more than offer disgusting shock value.

I share the gospel with, and offer help to abortion bound mothers 4 days a week (on a normal week) and have for the past 15 years. I don't need statistics. I'm there with them and see the success on a daily basis. Crisis Pregnancy Centers don't reach the women we reach. It is past that point when we encounter them. I don't preach the gospel, share a tract, or offer help to an abortion bound mom to change the world. I do it to save that baby, that day at that abortion clinic. It's not about vague statistics. I see babies saved regularly by God's grace and for years have heard those on the sidelines talk about what they think should be done. I seldom see those with all of the "right answers" and all of the "right tactics" on the street saving lives. They are usually too busy criticizing others on message boards.

[lifeandliberty]

One day a lady criticized D. L. Moody for his methods of evangelism in attempting to win people to the Lord. Moody’s reply was “I agree with you. I don’t like the way I do it either. Tell me, how do you do it?” The lady replied, “I don’t do it.” Moody retorted “Then I like my way of doing it wrong better than your way of not doing it at all.”

Edited April 19, 2009 by lifeandliberty

[Believer1997]

They are merely mentioned in the report and were not called Terrorist in the report. And I question the behavior of anyone who behaves with the tactics that these people use. No one hates abortion more than I do, but this obscenity and hatefulness is just counter in belief to my Christian beliefs. These poor babies are being exploited and victimized again and I doubt the veracity of statements that women have turned away from abortion clinics just because they saw the photos. What about showing huge pictures of healthy, happy babies with their mothers? Showing healthy happy children at all ages instead of this vile obscene material you show??

Showing pictures of healthy babies with their mothers is what the abortion fight started out with long ago and it didn't work. But you show somebody what a dead baby looks like all chopped up after an abortion and it will make an impression.

Did you ever consider that God has called them to do what they do? I mean what could be more radical then to call your only son to become a tortured bloody spectacle to be mocked in front of hundreds when He didn't even commit sin?

I do believe that there is a line which should not be crossed in the battle against abortion but putting graphic pictures of reality in the faces of those who are about to or who have already committed an atrocity that is far worse then showing the pictures. Is not beyond what God has already done in the bible and in fact doesn't even come close to what to the radical stuff God has already done in the bible. Like striking a man dead just because he spilled his seed on the ground. Or killing a man when all he did was to put his hands on the ark to keep it from falling to the ground. Or how about making the enemies of Israel turn on each other in the battle field and kill each other by the hundreds of thousands.

How do these things compare to showing graphic pictures of the truth?

What statistical evidence do you have that shows these tactics are successful in stemming the tide of abortions?? I would like to know how viewing the nearly pornographic vile pictures of little children who never had a chance at survival has made a difference in a growing trend in abortions?? Sadly it hasn't and all it does do is take away the dignity of these lifeless precious babies and puts them on sideshow display! The growth of Crisis Pregnancy Clinics that counsel young women and give them a place to have babies and live and go to school while there are adoption services offered would make more sense than this horrific practice that is graphic grandstanding and doesn't really have a mass effect on women using the services of abortion clinics. It's a practice that must stop and is horrific to me and other Christians... but these practices do nothing more than offer disgusting shock value.

You asked me a question knowing that there is no statistical evidence or at least I don't know of any but there might be some. I do know from the method does work on some and doesn't on others.

But I can say that you are going a long way out of your way to defend your position. Where in the world do you get pornography out pictures of dead babies. Best I can tell I have never seen a picture of a dead and chopped up dead baby that was exited. I have never seen one that was in a pornographic pose or committing sexual acts with another dead baby or anything at all of a sexual nature.

This thread got started because the government has listed this ministry as a terrorist threat and their methods are not a terroristic in nature. But unfortunately you seem to classify gross pictures as being terroristic and pornographic which to me makes you a very mixed up brother. Any group that is labeled a terroristic threat is labeled that because they are considered to be TERRORISTS by those who have labeled them. They are radical and gross BUT THOSE PICTURES ARE THE RESULTS OF ABORTIONS OR SHALL WE SAY WANTON MURDER not the acts of terrorists. If anything those who work for those abortion clinics and do the abortions should be called terrorists because their life revolves around killing babies by any means possible that are allowed by the laws of this country.

If fact I would say that since you are on the side of the government who calls this ministry a terroristic threat when they have not committed a terroristic act but the abortion clinics do commit terroristic acts, that you fit into the category of being a terrorist sympathizer.

I am not defending the graphic pictures nor am I against them. I am saying that the ministry should not be considered a terroristic threat. Because they have not committed a terroristic act of violence.

One day all Christians will be labeled terrorists because we will not abide by the laws of the land because we will be abiding by the laws of God. We will be a government with in a government. The fact is that the pro-choicers are going to win this fight. Why? Because God said so. And so will the gay agenda and many other forms of antichrist movements. Why? Because in order for prophetic scripture to be fulfilled Iniquity must abound so much so that the love of many shall wax cold. The lawlessness of God's laws will consume the world and the pro-choice movement is only a part of a much larger antichrist movement.

If you don't appreciate those pictures fine. But stop calling a radical Christian based ministry that does not commit terroristic acts as though they do. Open your eyes and see what is happening for what it is. Which is calling non terroristic acts as if they were. This is just the beginning before to long they will be labeling all ministries a "terroristic threat". It is coming and no body can stop it. Wake up and smell the coffee.

By pornographic - I mean exploitative and disgusting. There are statistics and let me tell you - abortions are not going down- but steadily going up. And people cite any number of lame reasons for this - the economy, etc. I AM NOT on the side of abortionists - but there must be MUST BE a better way of getting the point across and helping change the minds of those women who have been deluded into thinking that this is the only way. This group is NOT A TERRORIST GROUP - even the report says that if you'd take the time to read it. They are not considered terrorist threats. The better way would be to use pictures of live children - happy, healthy babies and newborns and the JOY of children - not the abominations they show. I suggest you read the Terms of Service of this forum and back off your comment of calling me a terrorist sympathizer, brother. I assure you that I am not now nor have I ever been.

[OneLight]

They are merely mentioned in the report and were not called Terrorist in the report. And I question the behavior of anyone who behaves with the tactics that these people use. No one hates abortion more than I do, but this obscenity and hatefulness is just counter in belief to my Christian beliefs. These poor babies are being exploited and victimized again and I doubt the veracity of statements that women have turned away from abortion clinics just because they saw the photos. What about showing huge pictures of healthy, happy babies with their mothers? Showing healthy happy children at all ages instead of this vile obscene material you show??

Showing pictures of healthy babies with their mothers is what the abortion fight started out with long ago and it didn't work. But you show somebody what a dead baby looks like all chopped up after an abortion and it will make an impression.

Did you ever consider that God has called them to do what they do? I mean what could be more radical then to call your only son to become a tortured bloody spectacle to be mocked in front of hundreds when He didn't even commit sin?

I do believe that there is a line which should not be crossed in the battle against abortion but putting graphic pictures of reality in the faces of those who are about to or who have already committed an atrocity that is far worse then showing the pictures. Is not beyond what God has already done in the bible and in fact doesn't even come close to what to the radical stuff God has already done in the bible. Like striking a man dead just because he spilled his seed on the ground. Or killing a man when all he did was to put his hands on the ark to keep it from falling to the ground. Or how about making the enemies of Israel turn on each other in the battle field and kill each other by the hundreds of thousands.

How do these things compare to showing graphic pictures of the truth?

What statistical evidence do you have that shows these tactics are successful in stemming the tide of abortions?? I would like to know how viewing the nearly pornographic vile pictures of little children who never had a chance at survival has made a difference in a growing trend in abortions?? Sadly it hasn't and all it does do is take away the dignity of these lifeless precious babies and puts them on sideshow display! The growth of Crisis Pregnancy Clinics that counsel young women and give them a place to have babies and live and go to school while there are adoption services offered would make more sense than this horrific practice that is graphic grandstanding and doesn't really have a mass effect on women using the services of abortion clinics. It's a practice that must stop and is horrific to me and other Christians... but these practices do nothing more than offer disgusting shock value.

I share the gospel with, and offer help to abortion bound mothers 4 days a week (on a normal week) and have for the past 15 years. I don't need statistics. I'm there with them and see the success on a daily basis. Crisis Pregnancy Centers don't reach the women we reach. It is past that point when we encounter them. I don't preach the gospel, share a tract, or offer help to an abortion bound mom to change the world. I do it to save that baby, that day at that abortion clinic. It's not about vague statistics. I see babies saved regularly by God's grace and for years have heard those on the sidelines talk about what they think should be done. I seldom see those with all of the "right answers" and all of the "right tactics" on the street saving lives. They are usually too busy criticizing others on message boards.

An assumption of yours? Nice touch. Another guilt tactic I see. So, tell me, why did you post here in the first place if you were not looking of replies?

[Believer1997]

One day a lady criticized D. L. Moody for his methods of evangelism in attempting to win people to the Lord. Moody

[Believer1997]

I worked with women and girls who were in crisis - many of whom that thought there was no other option and Crisis Pregnancy Centers DID offer advice and a place to go and have a child and adoption as alternatives. Sometimes it was as simple as needing money for the baby - sometimes as complex as not being old enough or resourced enough to raise the child. Those places do work. I'm pretty sure that slamming them with pictures of mutilated infants would not have been as productive in changing their minds - hope changes their minds - a PLAN. Not just a poster with people screaming taunts at them. The statistics are not vague - they are glaringly apparent.

[lifeandliberty]

They are merely mentioned in the report and were not called Terrorist in the report. And I question the behavior of anyone who behaves with the tactics that these people use. No one hates abortion more than I do, but this obscenity and hatefulness is just counter in belief to my Christian beliefs. These poor babies are being exploited and victimized again and I doubt the veracity of statements that women have turned away from abortion clinics just because they saw the photos. What about showing huge pictures of healthy, happy babies with their mothers? Showing healthy happy children at all ages instead of this vile obscene material you show??

Showing pictures of healthy babies with their mothers is what the abortion fight started out with long ago and it didn't work. But you show somebody what a dead baby looks like all chopped up after an abortion and it will make an impression.

Did you ever consider that God has called them to do what they do? I mean what could be more radical then to call your only son to become a tortured bloody spectacle to be mocked in front of hundreds when He didn't even commit sin?

I do believe that there is a line which should not be crossed in the battle against abortion but putting graphic pictures of reality in the faces of those who are about to or who have already committed an atrocity that is far worse then showing the pictures. Is not beyond what God has already done in the bible and in fact doesn't even come close to what to the radical stuff God has already done in the bible. Like striking a man dead just because he spilled his seed on the ground. Or killing a man when all he did was to put his hands on the ark to keep it from falling to the ground. Or how about making the enemies of Israel turn on each other in the battle field and kill each other by the hundreds of thousands.

How do these things compare to showing graphic pictures of the truth?

What statistical evidence do you have that shows these tactics are successful in stemming the tide of abortions?? I would like to know how viewing the nearly pornographic vile pictures of little children who never had a chance at survival has made a difference in a growing trend in abortions?? Sadly it hasn't and all it does do is take away the dignity of these lifeless precious babies and puts them on sideshow display! The growth of Crisis Pregnancy Clinics that counsel young women and give them a place to have babies and live and go to school while there are adoption services offered would make more sense than this horrific practice that is graphic grandstanding and doesn't really have a mass effect on women using the services of abortion clinics. It's a practice that must stop and is horrific to me and other Christians... but these practices do nothing more than offer disgusting shock value.

I share the gospel with, and offer help to abortion bound mothers 4 days a week (on a normal week) and have for the past 15 years. I don't need statistics. I'm there with them and see the success on a daily basis. Crisis Pregnancy Centers don't reach the women we reach. It is past that point when we encounter them. I don't preach the gospel, share a tract, or offer help to an abortion bound mom to change the world. I do it to save that baby, that day at that abortion clinic. It's not about vague statistics. I see babies saved regularly by God's grace and for years have heard those on the sidelines talk about what they think should be done. I seldom see those with all of the "right answers" and all of the "right tactics" on the street saving lives. They are usually too busy criticizing others on message boards.

An assumption of yours? Nice touch. Another guilt tactic I see. So, tell me, why did you post here in the first place if you were not looking of replies?

Feel free to reply. This is off topic though. Refer to original posting.

Edited April 19, 2009 by lifeandliberty

[Ovedya]

Why do we show the bloody photographs of the murdered preborn?

[Ovedya]

Then maybe showing the progress of the growth of a child within the womb, with the conviction of the Holy Spirit, would work better. These people are not allowing the Holy Spirit to do His job. They feel that they are called by God to show mutilated babies. Again, show me in scripture where God was as cruel and unloving. God works through the hearts of a person, not their eyes.

When these picture of aborted babied are shown, do they hide the genitals or do they show the full picture? I have to ask because the ones I saw were so disgusting I only looked at it for a second. It was sickening to view.

I agree. These images cannot be easily forgotten, which is why these people use them. In my opinion the images play on our deep-seated fear of death. Jesus, on the other hand, did not minister by fear but by love and compassion. When He told of the Good Samaritan He didn't include in the parable where the Samaritan walked over to the beaten and bloodied man on the road and cried out, "See, look at this man. See how beaten and bloodied he is." He said that the Samaritan was "moved with compassion." There is no compassion in the disrespectful, distasteful, display of mutilated children. It's really just making a spectacle out of what is arguably the most tragic situations in our era.