My Sister Sent Me This Email

[Axxman]

The government is the only entity that can change the laws that make such appalling practices legal. And I have to point out AGAIN that you started out with an affordable note and the terms were changed six months later.

So you truly believe that the predatory practices of credit card companies are okay? You have no problem with a bank being able to double your interest rate and payment after you've signed an agreement with them, even though you pay your bill on time, every month? If you're okay with all that then being mugged or having your identity stolen should be a cakewalk for you. Oh, and you got swine flu in February and didn't work for three weeks; that's why you were late on your furniture payment. Now you not only have lost three weeks pay but your truck payment has more than doubled. Shame on you for getting sick.

I've never said, or implied, that what the banks are doing is okay. In fact, I've said just the opposite. However, that doesn't justify gov't intrusion into the private sector. If people don't like the way a business is working then they should STOP using that business...but American's seem to think they are entitled to, or can't live without, a credit card. So, since they don't want to quit borrowing money they don't have, they choose to turn their backs on core conservative principles (just this once) and let the gov't intervene on their behalf.

Furthermore...these same credit card addicts who seem to think they have the inalienable right to borrow other people's money, also appear to be the one's who are the least effective planners for future calamity. I do not worry about missing 3 weeks of work (or a year of work) because I have prepared myself for just such an occassion by putting a hefty sum into a savings account. Not only that, I have purchased insurance that costs me about $40 a paycheck (and I've been paying it for years) just in case I miss work for an extended period of time. Plus, I have life insurance (equal to 10 years of salary) so that my family is cared for in case things really get dicey. I am not rich by any stretch...there have been many times when I thought it would be so much nicer to not put that money away and use it on groceries, or car repairs, or clothes for the kids...but I stand strong and i don't give into those temptations. I think my short stint as a financial counselor gives me some resolve in that catagory.

[kat8585]

Axx, there are people who can't afford to save money. The last time I tried to, I told myself I was going to save every week, even if it was only $5. Well, guess what, I couldn't save even that. Even when I was working. I made decent enough money to live, but that was it. And I don't buy extras like beer, cigs, even soda (I've never been a soda drinker), beauty parlor, nails, hardly any makeup, clothes, all the things women usually spend money on. I'd love to have a 6 month reserve or more, but it's just not possible.

[Axxman]

maybe you were late on your furniture payment because something totally unexpected happened... maybe you'd had job security and a good income in january, but in february your hours were cut in half or you were laid off.

a contract is a contract, is it not? if you sign an agreement with whoever financed your pickup truck to pay 1.9% interest for four years, with your monthly payments being $300 per month, then as long as you are living up to that agreement by making those truck payments on time, why should they be allowed to raise the interest by 15.5% and jack your payments up to more than twice what you contractually agreed to?

(snip)

but at least we KNOW what we're agreeing to with the payday loan sharks. we know we're gonna pay $20 for every $100 that we borrow, and that we'll be paying that interest every week until our balance is paid off. we hate it, but we may have no choice in the matter if we want to keep a roof over our heads. and it's nearly impossible to get back on your feet when you're paying that much interest. but fair is fair, it's part of the deal.

but what is NOT fair, and should not be legal, is for people who sign a contract that says they'll pay X amount of interest to suddenly have their interest rates jacked up on past purchases. i understand that credit card companies and banks can raise interest rates on future purchases, but they should never be allowed to raise it retroactively.

someone tell me how that is legal! is it in the fine print somewhere?

First of all...sorry times are so tough for you. Maybe I'm just a fortunate guy...but I can't imagine a scenario so bad that I would give up on my core beliefs against socialism/communism and say "Okay, you win...let the gov't take over everything." America was built on getting through tough spots and working hard to overcome setbacks...nowadays we just hope the gov't steps in and takes care of it for us. Maybe I'm naive for believing that America could ever exist again. How did people ever survive without credit cards back in the day?

I also take issue with you calling Payday Loan suppliers "sharks." They are NOT sharks. They are a legitimate business that provides a legitimate service. If you don't like that service, then don't use them. But don't go begging them for a loan, and then complain about the terms to borrow THEIR money.

Lastly...who breaks the agreement first? The bank? Or the person who isn't paying back their debts? If your credit score is 700 when the bank loans you THEIR money...but your credit score drops to 550 because you started missing payments to other companies...you have officially violated the terms of your agreement. People want to have their cake, and eat it too. You want to take their money...you want to spend their money...you want to set the tems for repaying the money...and you want the gov't out of every part of your life until your life gets difficult. Sorry, but things don't work that way.

[kat8585]

I also take issue with you calling Payday Loan suppliers "sharks." They are NOT sharks.

No, they are vultures and they are corrupt, in my book.

[Axxman]

Axx, there are people who can't afford to save money. The last time I tried to, I told myself I was going to save every week, even if it was only $5. Well, guess what, I couldn't save even that. Even when I was working. I made decent enough money to live, but that was it. And I don't buy extras like beer, cigs, even soda (I've never been a soda drinker), beauty parlor, nails, hardly any makeup, clothes, all the things women usually spend money on. I'd love to have a 6 month reserve or more, but it's just not possible.

Kat...I can fully appreciate that. I know what its like to live frugally...I do it everyday. However, do you think it would be wise for a person in your situation to start borrowing money from credit cards? To me it makes common sense that a person who cannot save even $5 a week...really has no business borrowing money.

Credit cards provide a valuable service to those who can AFFORD them. But there are a great many people who cannot afford them, but they use them anyway, then complain when things get out of control, and then turn a blind eye on their conservative principles while the gov't makes bold steps in socialism just because it happens to benefit them.

[Axxman]

I also take issue with you calling Payday Loan suppliers "sharks." They are NOT sharks.

No, they are vultures and they are corrupt, in my book.

LOL...then don't use their business. Pretty simple really.

[Axxman]

These companies have a plethora of attorneys who do nothing all day long but write amendments and addendums and print them in teeny tiny little confusing language and send them out to advise you of your "upcoming changes". Some of these companies just got Caboodles of bail-out money and are now gouging the public. All some people need is an unexpected illness, job loss, etc. and they are in deep....

Ummmm...if reading the "teeny tiny language" and legaleze is too much for people...then why are they getting into business with these companies? Now it is the banks fault that people don't know the terms of the deal?

Is it the banks fault if someone loses a job? No...but you seem to think that the bank should just pretend that everything is normal. "We just loaned this guy $5,000 and he doesn't have a job anymore, and he's missing payments on other bills...but hey, we'll just pretend its not going to affect us." Its a business...quit acting like people are borrowing money from their brother.

If you borrow money, you are accepting the consequences of that action. If you lose your job, or something unfortunate happens...well, I'm sorry...but thats life. Sometimes life has a tendency to "pile on." Most of us can handle one misfortune at a time...but sometimes things hit us from every angle. Those are the times when WE MUST stand on our principles. WE MUST not give in to the temptations of taking the easy road and letting the gov't handle it for us. WE MUST not give in on our fundamental beliefs and ideologies simply because life got a little rough.

[Guest LadyC]

maybe you were late on your furniture payment because something totally unexpected happened... maybe you'd had job security and a good income in january, but in february your hours were cut in half or you were laid off.

a contract is a contract, is it not? if you sign an agreement with whoever financed your pickup truck to pay 1.9% interest for four years, with your monthly payments being $300 per month, then as long as you are living up to that agreement by making those truck payments on time, why should they be allowed to raise the interest by 15.5% and jack your payments up to more than twice what you contractually agreed to?

(snip)

but at least we KNOW what we're agreeing to with the payday loan sharks. we know we're gonna pay $20 for every $100 that we borrow, and that we'll be paying that interest every week until our balance is paid off. we hate it, but we may have no choice in the matter if we want to keep a roof over our heads. and it's nearly impossible to get back on your feet when you're paying that much interest. but fair is fair, it's part of the deal.

but what is NOT fair, and should not be legal, is for people who sign a contract that says they'll pay X amount of interest to suddenly have their interest rates jacked up on past purchases. i understand that credit card companies and banks can raise interest rates on future purchases, but they should never be allowed to raise it retroactively.

someone tell me how that is legal! is it in the fine print somewhere?

First of all...sorry times are so tough for you. Maybe I'm just a fortunate guy...but I can't imagine a scenario so bad that I would give up on my core beliefs against socialism/communism and say "Okay, you win...let the gov't take over everything." America was built on getting through tough spots and working hard to overcome setbacks...nowadays we just hope the gov't steps in and takes care of it for us. Maybe I'm naive for believing that America could ever exist again. How did people ever survive without credit cards back in the day?

I also take issue with you calling Payday Loan suppliers "sharks." They are NOT sharks. They are a legitimate business that provides a legitimate service. If you don't like that service, then don't use them. But don't go begging them for a loan, and then complain about the terms to borrow THEIR money.

Lastly...who breaks the agreement first? The bank? Or the person who isn't paying back their debts? If your credit score is 700 when the bank loans you THEIR money...but your credit score drops to 550 because you started missing payments to other companies...you have officially violated the terms of your agreement. People want to have their cake, and eat it too. You want to take their money...you want to spend their money...you want to set the tems for repaying the money...and you want the gov't out of every part of your life until your life gets difficult. Sorry, but things don't work that way.

thanks for your compassion axx. please point out to me where i said that i would give up my core beliefs, or where i indicated i wanted a handout from the government (or as you put it, want the government to step in and take care of us.) i don't recall saying anything of the sort.

there used to be a cap on what a company was legally allowed to charge in interest, wasn't there? maybe i'm mistaken.

but regardless, i'd like to have you also point out where i complained about the practices of payday loan places while begging for their money. i do believe i made it really clear that i believe it is totally fair what they're doing because i know what i'm getting into and i agree to their terms... UNLIKE what credit card companies seem to be doing.

lastly, who really did break the terms of agreement in my my hypothetical scenario? you or the bank? the bank, did, not you. you may have broken your agreement with the furniture company, but you upheld every jot and tittle of the contract you had on your truck loan.

for the record, i don't have to beg the payday loan companies. our credit score may suck as a result of having had my identity stolen, but our reputation of never being late on a payment to a loan shark is in very good standing. they're very happy to loan us money without us begging. i just hate having to be in such a position where it's necessary, but by the end of last year, we had depleted our savings account and had no cushion left.

[MorningGlory]

The government is the only entity that can change the laws that make such appalling practices legal. And I have to point out AGAIN that you started out with an affordable note and the terms were changed six months later.

So you truly believe that the predatory practices of credit card companies are okay? You have no problem with a bank being able to double your interest rate and payment after you've signed an agreement with them, even though you pay your bill on time, every month? If you're okay with all that then being mugged or having your identity stolen should be a cakewalk for you. Oh, and you got swine flu in February and didn't work for three weeks; that's why you were late on your furniture payment. Now you not only have lost three weeks pay but your truck payment has more than doubled. Shame on you for getting sick.

I've never said, or implied, that what the banks are doing is okay. In fact, I've said just the opposite. However, that doesn't justify gov't intrusion into the private sector. If people don't like the way a business is working then they should STOP using that business...but American's seem to think they are entitled to, or can't live without, a credit card. So, since they don't want to quit borrowing money they don't have, they choose to turn their backs on core conservative principles (just this once) and let the gov't intervene on their behalf.

Furthermore...these same credit card addicts who seem to think they have the inalienable right to borrow other people's money, also appear to be the one's who are the least effective planners for future calamity. I do not worry about missing 3 weeks of work (or a year of work) because I have prepared myself for just such an occassion by putting a hefty sum into a savings account. Not only that, I have purchased insurance that costs me about $40 a paycheck (and I've been paying it for years) just in case I miss work for an extended period of time. Plus, I have life insurance (equal to 10 years of salary) so that my family is cared for in case things really get dicey. I am not rich by any stretch...there have been many times when I thought it would be so much nicer to not put that money away and use it on groceries, or car repairs, or clothes for the kids...but I stand strong and i don't give into those temptations. I think my short stint as a financial counselor gives me some resolve in that catagory.

I applaud your financial responsibility, Axx. That's the way everyone should handle finances...truth is, most don't. I don't fault those who don't handle money wisely though; I used to one of them. It's not government intervention when they rein in credit card issuers though; banking and lending institutions are, and have been for at least a hundred years, subject to federal law. This is true in all countries that I'm aware of.

In the pretend scenario I put you in, you didn't have any savings. What would you do once the interest rate and car payment shot up? Do you think it's fair business practice to raise your payment to THEM because you were late ONE time to the furniture company? This is why I called them sharks.....they start circling when they smell blood in the water.

[Axxman]

I applaud your financial responsibility, Axx. That's the way everyone should handle finances...truth is, most don't. I don't fault those who don't handle money wisely though; I used to one of them. It's not government intervention when they rein in credit card issuers though; banking and lending institutions are, and have been for at least a hundred years, subject to federal law. This is true in all countries that I'm aware of.

In the pretend scenario I put you in, you didn't have any savings. What would you do once the interest rate and car payment shot up? Do you think it's fair business practice to raise your payment to THEM because you were late ONE time to the furniture company? This is why I called them sharks.....they start circling when they smell blood in the water.

Let me tell you Sister...I used to be one of them too. I know the stress and worry of overwhelming debt, car respossessed, and having to live one step above homeless. I learned alot from those lessons and I am bound and determined to not be in that position again.

In your scenario (I'll play along) I don't think its fair. I would be upset. And I would quit doing business with a company that treated me that way. What I wouldn't say, "I don't believe in gov't interference in private business...But since it'll benefit me this time I'll go along with it."

The fact remains though...they are not doing anything illegal. They have every right to check you credit report and make sure that you are going to able to pay them back, and if your credit scores start dropping because you are being irresponsible in paying back other people you owe...they are in the drivers seat because you borrowed THEIR money. However, just because they can doesn't mean they should...and I wouldn't do business with them any more than i would do business with ANY company that I felt treated me badly as a customer.

people have this entitlement thing going on with credit cards though....