forrestkc Posted April 28, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 114 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,015 Content Per Day: 0.59 Reputation: 8 Days Won: 1 Joined: 12/15/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted April 28, 2009 It is clear that you do not know how the system works. You feign knowledge that you do not have. I had a foster child who was removed from her home because her father would not let her go to a party. They dragged the fathers name through the mud and ruined his reputation because of an allegation of sexual abuse that was false. But my sister-in-law, who has 4 children, no means of support and smokes crack and marijuana daily has no fear of her children being removed. And I have called DFS on her personally 3 times and they won't even go to the house and investigate. I've even hotlined her when her oldest daughter was beating up on her own grandfather, but they still wouldn't do anything. The entire system is arbitrary, and if you claim otherwise, you know nothing of the inner workings of the system. I do, I've have over 10 years experience within the system. Stick to global warming. So wait a second. The girl was not removed because she could not go to a party, she was removed because she accused her father of sexual abuse. Now granted, it was a false accusation. However, would you rather a child be left in the home of their parents if one of the parents was accused of sexually abusing their kids? No system is perfect. Years ago when I did casa work, there were cases brought before family court where a parent was accused of sexual abuse, and in every case I saw, the accused parent was guilty as sin. So sure, some are falsely accused, but that is the exception not the rule. Moreover, every county in this regard is different. Buchannan county may well just have a terrible system. We have had two similar threads here where some members claimed that you could get your kids taken away simply because you spanked them in public, they did not want to go to church, or they did not want to be grounded. None of this is true. Yet people all of a sudden get all up in arms when that is pointed out. Well, to be blunt, they just need to quit being so paranoid, quit thinking society is out to get them, and quit thinking everything is some conspiracy theory. With both of our home studies for adoption, we told the social worker that we spanked our kids and attended church, yet we were approved, no problem at all, for adoption both times. Its a paranoid myth to think that one will lose their kids simply because they spank them or go to church. Now sure, if you have a teen that falsely accuses you of sexual abuse, you might lose your kids for a while. However, there is no way around that. Social services has to take the kid at their word until its found that the allegation is untrue. Its not perfect, but its certainly better than the alternative. The fact is, if someone is worried about getting their kids taken from them by social services, there is probably a good reason why their are worried. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forrestkc Posted April 29, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 114 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,015 Content Per Day: 0.59 Reputation: 8 Days Won: 1 Joined: 12/15/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted April 29, 2009 I don't know where your social worker came from, and perhaps adoption is different, although I doubt it, but corporal punishment of foster children is expressly forbidden. It's one of the first things you learn, so there goes that theory. We are talking about adoptive and paternal parents not foster parents. And your glib, off-the-cuff assertion that "oh sure, some were falsely accused" is pretty blase. Those that are falsely accused get ground up by the system and get a stigma attached that they can never get rid of, but no big deal right? It happens to so few, according to your law of averages, that if a few people get dragged through the mud and ruined for life, oh well, 'no system is perfect.' I'm sure they sleep much better at night knowing that. What is the alternative? Where we don't trust kids? How many people would be all up in arms if a kid claimed they were being abused, tried to tell the authorities about it, and they were ignored due to lack of sufficient evidence and thus endured it their entire childhood? As a CASA worker, just exactly how did you know that the accused people were "guilty as sin?" Because they ended up being convicted, and their parental custody stripped because of it. I've seen children removed because their parents spanked them, so there goes that theory as well. Hogwash. It is not illegal to spank your kids in any state in America. But my favorite was another teen-age girl who was removed because "she had to do the dishes and her own laundry." Exact quote. And there was no back story or false accusation, that's why she was removed, because her parents forced her to do housework. Hogwash. No child is going to be removed from their parents because they had to do chores. Yes, in the foster care system you cannot spank kids you are fostering. Nor should you be able to. However, that is not the topic of the thread. This is about kids you are the parent of or have adopted. No one is going to take your kids from you simply because you spank them, give them chores, or make them go to church. That is nothing but irrational fear mongering. We spank our kids, make them do chores, and have made them go to church and have passed two home studies. We know lots of people that have adopted, give their kids chores to do, spank, and make them go to church, and they all passed their home studies. We have never fostered so I don't know what restrictions are in place for foster parents, but for parents and adoptive parents there are no such restrictions in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forrestkc Posted April 29, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 114 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,015 Content Per Day: 0.59 Reputation: 8 Days Won: 1 Joined: 12/15/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted April 29, 2009 You are saying I am lying forrest, and you need to take a few steps back. You stated that no child would be removed because of corporal punishment, and I am saying I have seen that occur, first-hand. When you say "hogwash" you are calling me a liar. When you say "hogwash" to the fact that I have seen a teen-age girl removed from her paternal home because she didn't want to do chores, you are again calling me a liar. I don't take being called a liar lightly. You've got one chance to get this right. I am saying that if you think that was the legal justification for removing those kids from their parental homes then you are very mistaken. There is no law against having your kids do chores or spanking them. A court order for removal cannot simply invent a legal justification that does not exist anywhere in state or federal law. There had to be more to it than you realized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forrestkc Posted April 29, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 114 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,015 Content Per Day: 0.59 Reputation: 8 Days Won: 1 Joined: 12/15/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted April 29, 2009 You are saying I am lying forrest, and you need to take a few steps back. You stated that no child would be removed because of corporal punishment, and I am saying I have seen that occur, first-hand. When you say "hogwash" you are calling me a liar. When you say "hogwash" to the fact that I have seen a teen-age girl removed from her paternal home because she didn't want to do chores, you are again calling me a liar. I don't take being called a liar lightly. You've got one chance to get this right. I am saying that if you think that was the legal justification for removing those kids from their parental homes then you are very mistaken. There is no law against having your kids do chores or spanking them. A court order for removal cannot simply invent a legal justification that does not exist anywhere in state or federal law. There had to be more to it than you realized. No, you called me a liar. I am saying, that is exactly why they were removed, and if you say that is not why they were removed, then you are saying I am lying. I am saying you are obviously mistaken. You evidently believe this, so that doesn't make you a liar, but it also does not make you right about it either. Once again, there is no law on the books against spanking your kids or making them do chores. As a parent, you cannot have your kids legally removed from the home by doing something that is not illegal. A court order has to have a legal justification for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted April 29, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.92 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted April 29, 2009 I am saying you are obviously mistaken. You evidently believe this, so that doesn't make you a liar, but it also does not make you right about it either. Once again, there is no law on the books against spanking your kids or making them do chores. As a parent, you cannot have your kids legally removed from the home by doing something that is not illegal. A court order has to have a legal justification for it. If you are going to accuse Cobalt of being "mistaken," you will need solid evidence to back your claim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forrestkc Posted April 29, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 114 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,015 Content Per Day: 0.59 Reputation: 8 Days Won: 1 Joined: 12/15/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted April 29, 2009 This may come as a shock to you, but even our court systems break laws every day. I am not mistaken, I know exactly what happened, and you repeating the same thing over and over is not dealing with the issue. The children were removed from the home for the exact reasons I stated, so yes, they were removed illegally. Slice it any way you like, you are still calling me a liar. No one is calling you a liar. I am saying you are wrong though. You cannot write a court order and cite a legal statute that does not exist. We are not talking a differing legal opinion or interpretation, but rather just inventing a statute out of thin air. My wife is a paralegal, has worked for law firms her entire adult life. The judge would have had to issued a court order that stated the parents were subjecting their kids to slave or sweat shop labor for them to be removed - which would easily be overturned if the kids were just having to wash dishes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forrestkc Posted April 29, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 114 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,015 Content Per Day: 0.59 Reputation: 8 Days Won: 1 Joined: 12/15/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted April 29, 2009 I am saying you are obviously mistaken. You evidently believe this, so that doesn't make you a liar, but it also does not make you right about it either. Once again, there is no law on the books against spanking your kids or making them do chores. As a parent, you cannot have your kids legally removed from the home by doing something that is not illegal. A court order has to have a legal justification for it. If you are going to accuse Cobalt of being "mistaken," you will need solid evidence to back your claim. How so. You can't prove a negative. If he believes that kids can be legally removed from their parents home simply for doing chores or being spanked. Then he needs to cite the Missouri or Federal Statute that provides the legal means to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forrestkc Posted April 29, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 114 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,015 Content Per Day: 0.59 Reputation: 8 Days Won: 1 Joined: 12/15/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted April 29, 2009 I would also point out that in quite a few states you can still be paddled in school. Now think about that. You can, for example, be paddled in school in Arkansas. Yet have your kids taken away from you if you spank them at home? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted April 29, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.19 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted April 29, 2009 All kids have to do is tell the court system a big enough lie and they will be removed. When it comes to the children, it is guilty until proven innocent, not innocent until proven guilty. When it comes to investigating an abusive situation, in NH, if there is food in the cupboards, and the fridge, they are not abused, unless there are marks on their bodies. The trouble with this bill, and any bill for that matter, is that it leave too much up to personal interpretation. It should be clearly outlined what is abusive instead of leaving it up to the courts to mull over. We have allowed the courts too much power of interpretation on some matters. Laws should be spelled out specifically. If you happen to check the web for why kids take their parents to court, you will find many posts about it. In France, for an example, parents are being brought to court because their kids don't want to work. even after reaching the adult age, and are trying to force their parents to continue to pay for them. [url=http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article3016516.ece]Parents revolt over teenagers who won Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted April 29, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.92 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted April 29, 2009 I am saying you are obviously mistaken. You evidently believe this, so that doesn't make you a liar, but it also does not make you right about it either. Once again, there is no law on the books against spanking your kids or making them do chores. As a parent, you cannot have your kids legally removed from the home by doing something that is not illegal. A court order has to have a legal justification for it. If you are going to accuse Cobalt of being "mistaken," you will need solid evidence to back your claim. How so. You can't prove a negative. If he believes that kids can be legally removed from their parents home simply for doing chores or being spanked. Then he needs to cite the Missouri or Federal Statute that provides the legal means to do so. He is telling you what did happen, though. Your charge indicates that there is something more to the story than what he is telling - based on presumption, not on knowing the case. You will have to provide evidence that what actually happened was within the law books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts