Ovedya Posted May 26, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 375 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 11,400 Content Per Day: 1.44 Reputation: 125 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/30/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/14/1971 Share Posted May 26, 2009 Saved people are God\'s people in my theology. Israel\'s people are not saved, unless they have come to know their messiah. They are Christ haters for the most part,not for Him but against Him, go up to some Jew and ask them what they think of your Jesus. "Christ haters" is a racist term, friend. This and "Christ killers" were terms used by the Nazis as justification for the wholesale slaughter of 6 million men, women and children. Now that does not mean we do not love them as people or side with them because they believe in a democratic way, but they have rejected God. They do have some things God is going to do for them and he has kept them...but they are not saved..they are backslid as a people. We are of our father Abraham will not get you into heaven. This is wrong theology. Israel is Abraham, Isaac and Jacob; children of Abraham by blood and heritage. We are the children of Abrham by faith, having been grafted into Israel. God's promise to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob has never been dissolved or eliminated. Your theology makes God a hypocrite! Israel is not the apple of God's eye..devoted Christians are. You can not be unsaved and the apple of God's eye totally wrong theology. "For the LORD's portion is his people, Jacob his allotted heritage. "He found him in a desert land, and in the howling waste of the wilderness; he encircled him, he cared for him, he kept him as the apple of his eye." (Deut. 32:9-10) Your response is completely unbiblical. :::::::::::::::: Did you get any of the "fruit of the vine" understanding or are you just going to ignore it? I notice you totally have jumped topic and are now just criticizing me for proving less than others. Please just stay with the topic. Actually now I'm going to ignore your argument completely, due to your terrible insult to God and His people. You are right about one thing, though: God is not finished with Israel. Just as He is not done with you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Servant54 Posted May 26, 2009 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 139 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/11/2009 Status: Offline Share Posted May 26, 2009 Shiloh said.. "Yayin can refer to any fruit of the vine, but when it is translated as "wine" it is for good reason. The natural context determines how a word is used and is translated. When the Bible refers to wine, it means "wine" not grape juice. You can kick against the goads all you want, but Ovedya is right and every competent scholar in Hebrew will agree with him." I say... Perhaps you can explain the following scriptures in light of what you just said.. Here are some scripture which talk about wine not being alcoholic... Isaiah 65;8 speaks of wine in clusters (tiyrosh) Isaiah 16;10 speaks of treading wine in presses (yayin) Pro 3;10 presses burst with new wine (tiyrosh) Jeremiah 48:33 here wine(yayin) fails from the winepresses Lamentations 2 :11-12 children and infants faint because of lack of wine (yayin) and grain Zech9:14 grain shall make the young men thrive, new wine makes the young women thrive (tiyrosh) So we see that although there are bible passages that obviously refer to wine as having an alcoholic nature, there are also scriptures showing that wine and new wine can also be non alcoholic. The rest of your post I am going to let stand as you have stated it. It looks to me that you say things are the way they are because you believe they are that way. Nothing wrong with that, I see no proof given in other words. Thank you for your time answering me back and God Bless you this week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest yod Posted May 26, 2009 Share Posted May 26, 2009 So we see that although there are bible passages that obviously refer to wine as having an alcoholic nature, there are also scriptures showing that wine and new wine can also be non alcoholic. yes, but notice that every instance refers to the grapes still on the vine or newly harvested...none of those examples have aged at all. but after a few days, new wine ferments into just "wine" Why would they grow grapes if they could only drink them for about a week after the harvest? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Believer1997 Posted May 27, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 66 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 6,363 Content Per Day: 1.13 Reputation: 119 Days Won: 9 Joined: 11/07/2008 Status: Offline Share Posted May 27, 2009 I think you guys need to get together and go out for a drink and discuss this some more.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Servant54 Posted May 27, 2009 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 139 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/11/2009 Status: Offline Share Posted May 27, 2009 Saved people are God\'s people in my theology. Israel\'s people are not saved, unless they have come to know their messiah. They are Christ haters for the most part,not for Him but against Him, go up to some Jew and ask them what they think of your Jesus. "Christ haters" is a racist term, friend. This and "Christ killers" were terms used by the Nazis as justification for the wholesale slaughter of 6 million men, women and children. Now that does not mean we do not love them as people or side with them because they believe in a democratic way, but they have rejected God. They do have some things God is going to do for them and he has kept them...but they are not saved..they are backslid as a people. We are of our father Abraham will not get you into heaven. This is wrong theology. Israel is Abraham, Isaac and Jacob; children of Abraham by blood and heritage. We are the children of Abrham by faith, having been grafted into Israel. God's promise to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob has never been dissolved or eliminated. Your theology makes God a hypocrite! Israel is not the apple of God's eye..devoted Christians are. You can not be unsaved and the apple of God's eye totally wrong theology. "For the LORD's portion is his people, Jacob his allotted heritage. "He found him in a desert land, and in the howling waste of the wilderness; he encircled him, he cared for him, he kept him as the apple of his eye." (Deut. 32:9-10) Your response is completely unbiblical. :::::::::::::::: Did you get any of the "fruit of the vine" understanding or are you just going to ignore it? I notice you totally have jumped topic and are now just criticizing me for proving less than others. Please just stay with the topic. Actually now I'm going to ignore your argument completely, due to your terrible insult to God and His people. You are right about one thing, though: God is not finished with Israel. Just as He is not done with you... "Christ Haters" Hey, I am just quoting the bible... Jn 15:18 "If the world hates you, you know that it has hated Me before it hated you. (everyone not saved(the world) is a Christ hater in this respect) Anyway, I am not going to side track on the Israel stuff, I can see you hold dear to your belief and I can respect that..just realize some like myself oppose your view and respect that. Hey before you leave me are you going to comment on what we were actually talking about the text,,I mean it would look like you picked a fight to avoid it if you don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest man Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 Jn 15:18 "If the world hates you, you know that it has hated Me before it hated you. (everyone not saved(the world) is a Christ hater in this respect) Actually, that's not true. "Christ Haters" Hey, I am just quoting the bible... Also not true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Servant54 Posted May 27, 2009 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 139 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/11/2009 Status: Offline Share Posted May 27, 2009 So we see that although there are bible passages that obviously refer to wine as having an alcoholic nature, there are also scriptures showing that wine and new wine can also be non alcoholic. yes, but notice that every instance refers to the grapes still on the vine or newly harvested...none of those examples have aged at all. but after a few days, new wine ferments into just "wine" Why would they grow grapes if they could only drink them for about a week after the harvest? I am not following where you come up with your idea, you might want to reread my post. "The children call out for it" how do you know how old it is? Did you go in the cupboard and get down the 6 month old jam like I suggested and mix hot water with it? We have long ago with many texts of history proved they had juice all year long..but if you want to continue insisting they did not then we will add that to the arguments to your side of the discussion. Thank You. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Servant54 Posted May 27, 2009 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 139 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/11/2009 Status: Offline Share Posted May 27, 2009 Jn 15:18 "If the world hates you, you know that it has hated Me before it hated you. (everyone not saved(the world) is a Christ hater in this respect) Actually, that's not true. Explain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest man Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 Jn 15:18 "If the world hates you, you know that it has hated Me before it hated you. (everyone not saved(the world) is a Christ hater in this respect) Actually, that's not true. Explain. Look at the very first word in that verse. "IF" the world hates...... Not knowing Christ does not translate into hating Him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Servant54 Posted May 27, 2009 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 139 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/11/2009 Status: Offline Share Posted May 27, 2009 Jn 15:18 "If the world hates you, you know that it has hated Me before it hated you. (everyone not saved(the world) is a Christ hater in this respect) Actually, that's not true. Explain. Look at the very first word in that verse. "IF" the world hates...... Not knowing Christ does not translate into hating Him. Yes, I see what you are saying, it does go on beyond that and says the world loves its own and hates you because you are not of the world. My main point is you are either for Christ or against him....people against Christ are not the apple of God's eye. Abraham was for Christ by faith. Therefor he was the apple of God's eye. Again I have to tread on water here lest I say something a little off and then get immediately branded as a heretic so everyone can breath easy because Servant 54 is loonie and we no longer have to listen to him. I do not buy it. I am trying to be as kind as possible and just bring the facts of the topic. I wish everyone would quite with the side comments and just stick to the topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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