Dan Brown: Where faith and science agree

[nebula]

But things like the "Davinci Code", I as a christian, can see what it is...MAKE BELIEVE.

A make believe that turns the Bible into a lie. A make believe that degrades Jesus.

No matter how good the story is, I can never find it in my heart to partake of something that makes out my Lord to be something less than what He is.

I enjoy fantasy. But I couldn't finish a well-written otherwise enjoyable fantasy series because it reduced God to nothing more than the Incarnation of Good. I just can't brush such a thing aside.

I mean, would you enjoy a book that told bad lies about your father or mother?

I couldn't.

I have not met one person yet who believed in Christ to accept the Davinci Code as a biblical truth.

Non . . . but enough people who do not know Jesus accept it as truth.

Do you know how to show them Jesus for who He is and erase these lies about Him?

[Murse32]

A make believe that turns the Bible into a lie. A make believe that degrades Jesus.

No matter how good the story is, I can never find it in my heart to partake of something that makes out my Lord to be something less than what He is.

Yes, but in all honesty Neb, how far can we go with this? How long can this same logic go on until we all are nothing more than ostriches with our head in the sand?

Let me give you an example. How many Christians watch the news? The news has become a liberal frenzy...yet we still partake in watching it. How about a fictional movies such as "Lord of the Rings"...These books/movies say nothing about denying Christ, but if we really want to grab at straws, we can say it glorifies witchcraft and whatever else...but we still know it's fiction. I could write books and books on here on TV shows and movies and books that don't necessarily take away Jesus' deity, but they do throw back in the face of God the things He is against...we should be strong in our faith and know what's right and what's wrong. I'm not saying that entitles us to watch and read whatever, cause some things are just disgusting...but when you have a book that is just made for fun and not a bible study, it can be enjoyed by christians.

I enjoy fantasy. But I couldn't finish a well-written otherwise enjoyable fantasy series because it reduced God to nothing more than the Incarnation of Good. I just can't brush such a thing aside.

I mean, would you enjoy a book that told bad lies about your father or mother?

I couldn't.

Neb, I'm not asking you to think like I do, nor am I stating you should like the things I like. And, you do make very good points. All I am trying to say, is that somethings are just not worth getting worked up over. Do you realize Christians spend more time attacking books of fiction like "The Davinci Code", "Harry Potter", "Lord of the Rings" even "pokemon" and brush off the fact that there are cults like the mormons who use OUR bible and demote Christ to nothing more than a teacher...yet we stand quiet for the most part. Dan Brown, is the least of my worries when I know that most people just reading him for entertainment and not searching for the truth.

About my mother and father. It would depend on the type of book. If an author came to my parents house and said "may I write about your life" and it was full of lies....yes, I would get angry. But, If that same author came to them and said "Im writing a book about fairies and elves and would like to use you for a base"...than no, I would not get angry in the least bit. It's a fiction book.

I have not met one person yet who believed in Christ to accept the Davinci Code as a biblical truth.

Non . . . but enough people who do not know Jesus accept it as truth.

Do you know how to show them Jesus for who He is and erase these lies about Him?

My dear Neb, for two thousand years people have been writing lies about our lord and savior. I have read writings that proclaimed that Mithra came before Jesus and Jesus was just another story based off a pagan god. I have heard people state that Jesus was a real person, but just a teacher, I have heard Jesus never existed. I've heard it all. Those people will have to find the truth on their own. We as christians do what we can....we can not change hearts, nor should we be the ones that burn books and protest unholy events. We should live in love and shine as a beacon in the dark. During Jesus' time horrible writings were being circulated. Pagan rituals were going on...Jesus never rallied "the troops" and picketed their gathering places...instead, He sat with them, ate with them and tried to explain the truth. When they didn't want to hear it...He went on His way to another.

[nebula]

Yes, but in all honesty Neb, how far can we go with this? How long can this same logic go on until we all are nothing more than ostriches with our head in the sand?

Let me give you an example. How many Christians watch the news? The news has become a liberal frenzy...yet we still partake in watching it. How about a fictional movies such as "Lord of the Rings"...These books/movies say nothing about denying Christ, but if we really want to grab at straws, we can say it glorifies witchcraft and whatever else...but we still know it's fiction. I could write books and books on here on TV shows and movies and books that don't necessarily take away Jesus' deity, but they do throw back in the face of God the things He is against...we should be strong in our faith and know what's right and what's wrong.

I can understand your line of thinking. But at the same time, at some point you need to draw a line.

My line is when the Lord is directly defamed.

Do you have a line?

It's like the two churches in Revelation - while Jesus commended them for the areas where they were faithful, they were both condemned for the areas they compromised with sin.

There has to be a line somewhere?

On which side of the line is it safer to err on?

I'm not saying that entitles us to watch and read whatever, cause some things are just disgusting...but when you have a book that is just made for fun and not a bible study, it can be enjoyed by christians.

But what if the authors have made statements that show they really do want to attack Christianity with their work?

Neb, I'm not asking you to think like I do, nor am I stating you should like the things I like. And, you do make very good points. All I am trying to say, is that somethings are just not worth getting worked up over. Do you realize Christians spend more time attacking books of fiction like "The Davinci Code", "Harry Potter", "Lord of the Rings" even "pokemon" and brush off the fact that there are cults like the mormons who use OUR bible and demote Christ to nothing more than a teacher...yet we stand quiet for the most part. Dan Brown, is the least of my worries when I know that most people just reading him for entertainment and not searching for the truth.

I can understand that.

But I don't understand how you can not find a problem with it.

About my mother and father. It would depend on the type of book. If an author came to my parents house and said "may I write about your life" and it was full of lies....yes, I would get angry. But, If that same author came to them and said "Im writing a book about fairies and elves and would like to use you for a base"...than no, I would not get angry in the least bit. It's a fiction book.

But they aren't writing about fairies - they are writing about your Lord and Savior and making Him out to be - not that!

This is what I don't understand.

During Jesus' time horrible writings were being circulated. Pagan rituals were going on...Jesus never rallied "the troops" and picketed their gathering places...instead, He sat with them, ate with them and tried to explain the truth. When they didn't want to hear it...He went on His way to another.

Actually, the only people He fellowshipped with were "the lost sheep of the house of Israel." The only pagans He associated with were the Roman centurion who confessed faith in Him, the Canaanite woman whom He drew out to confess faith in Him (that's how I understand the encounter), the Samaritan woman at the well who evangelized to her town, and the Gadherene man possessed by Legion - and the people of his town demanded Jesus leave them ASAP, so no fellowship there.

So I don't think it's exactly valid to compare the sinning children of Israel who did believe in God with the lost of our society who don't believe in God.

[Murse32]

I can understand your line of thinking. But at the same time, at some point you need to draw a line.

My line is when the Lord is directly defamed.

Do you have a line?

It's like the two churches in Revelation - while Jesus commended them for the areas where they were faithful, they were both condemned for the areas they compromised with sin.

There has to be a line somewhere?

On which side of the line is it safer to err on?

Do I have a line? absolutely!! We all do, they just never seem to be the same lines. What bothers some, does not bother me...and what bothers me, does not bother some. I for one, can not stand TV...in general, unless we are speaking of the Food Network. But how many Christians watch TV? Should I get on here stating that I don't understand why Christians own such a device? No, I would never. I don't see anything wrong with television...It's just my opinion that most things are garbage and therefore it's not even worth turning on most of the time. Let me give you an example. I know many christians who love the Lord with all their hearts...yet they watch "greys anatomy". Now, this is only my opinion, but what I have seen, glorifies homosexuality and promiscuity. It does not take away from Jesus' deity nor does it bring Him up...it does glorify something that He died on the cross for to free us from though. Would you consider this as a defaming of Christ since it slaps Him in the face for what He has done for us? Many don't...that is for them to work out in their own lives.

But what if the authors have made statements that show they really do want to attack Christianity with their work?

Than we don't read them. But if we are still talking about Dan Brown, I personally haven't seen any attacks. I just see someone who doesn't know the biblical truth...like many others.

I can understand that.

But I don't understand how you can not find a problem with it.

The issue isn't about what I have a problem with. It's what should we be attacking as a christian group? Is fiction really a major concern to us? Some secularist uses Jesus' as a base on a very far fetched book...This is just one piece that doesn't worry me. If someone is really intrigued by this book and wants to know more and picks up a bible...they will see how riduculous his writings are from a biblical stand point.

But they aren't writing about fairies - they are writing about your Lord and Savior and making Him out to be - not that!

This is what I don't understand.

Once again, this is strictly make believe. Now, as far as movies go, If you want to say something along the lines of "The Last Temptation of Christ" being horrific, I would agree. This movie made claims to using the bible to show christ's life. This movie is sick in my opinion and heretical. The Davinci Code on the other hand, didn't use biblical basis...it was just a story line. A far fetched story line at that.

Actually, the only people He fellowshipped with were "the lost sheep of the house of Israel." The only pagans He associated with were the Roman centurion who confessed faith in Him, the Canaanite woman whom He drew out to confess faith in Him (that's how I understand the encounter), the Samaritan woman at the well who evangelized to her town, and the Gadherene man possessed by Legion - and the people of his town demanded Jesus leave them ASAP, so no fellowship there.

So I don't think it's exactly valid to compare the sinning children of Israel who did believe in God with the lost of our society who don't believe in God.

You are correct, they were Jews...but lost none the less. You say they believed in God, but how do you know? Did Judas really believe? Was he a godly man? Jesus still used him despite the answer. Was Matthew a godly man? How about Zacchaeus, we know he was a jew as well, but where does it say he believed in God? My point is we can't assume. We only know what we are told. Furthermore, We see Jesus didn't make right of issues by walking around telling them what was wrong as much as telling them what was right.

Neb, I love ya to death...you are a wonderful person. But in this day and age, we are surrounded by so many wrongs...I believe we should just live our lives in which is right....and let the world see just how great it is to be Christian. Not so focused on obliterating the wrongs and giving them more fuel...The wrong doings are only there because there is an absence...once that absence is filled, the nastyness will weed itself out.

With love in Christ

Edited May 18, 2009 by Murse32

[Guest shiloh357]

I love Dan Brown's books; he's an amazingly gifted author. But...I don't read them as history books. They are FICTION. This is the same stuff that was bandied about for years after the "Da Vinci Code". Honestly.....

Dan Brown himself has made the claim in more then one interview that his books are based on fact. He said he would not have wasted time writing them if they were just fiction.

Further more the "DaVinci Code" is outright blashphemy. It's hard to see how anyone who believes in Jesus Christ and loves God, could enjoy any form of entertainment

that denies and blasphemes who he his.

Well said! Any Believer that tabbles in the reading of such books I would sincerely recommend that they avoid. Satan is a mighty foe and not to be underestimated. His finger can be seen clearly in the world of "fiction reading" and in "Movie making". God's Word in Phillipines 4:8 clearly tells us what the Christian is "to think upon." These books do not in any way hold up.

They are FICTION! Anyone with any intelligence at all can read fiction and not assume it's hard fact. I didn't assume the Three Little Pigs built houses for themselves either.

Well their are plenty of people who see the information in Brown's book as factual albeit woven through a fictitious storyline. A good example was when Brown was taken to court for copyright infringement by the authors of "Holy Blood, Holy Grail" a book written back in the 70s which basically puts for the same information in Dan Brown's book. Their book was not all that well received and didn't really make a splash. Brown's book contains the same information and is a major best-seller and is the basis for a movie. You can imagine their consternation at this.

The court asked the authors if their book was a book of fact or fiction. If they considered their research to be fact, the court maintained that they cannot copyright facts. If it was fiction, then they had grounds for their suit. The suit was dropped because they could not bring themselves to render all of their research useless by claiming that "Holy Blood, Holy Grail" was a work of fiction.

Dan uses fiction, but weaves what he and many others consider fact into a fictitious story using fictitious characters. This is not like a John Grisham novel. Much of the information presented in the books is seen as factual even if it uses a fictitious. Even the Lourve in Paris told of a spike in tourism due to people wanting to examine the works of art mentioned in the Da Vinci Code movie.

[Gauntlet]

I love Dan Brown's books; he's an amazingly gifted author. But...I don't read them as history books. They are FICTION. This is the same stuff that was bandied about for years after the "Da Vinci Code". Honestly.....

Dan Brown himself has made the claim in more then one interview that his books are based on fact. He said he would not have wasted time writing them if they were just fiction.

Further more the "DaVinci Code" is outright blashphemy. It's hard to see how anyone who believes in Jesus Christ and loves God, could enjoy any form of entertainment

that denies and blasphemes who he his.

You can find Dan Brown's books in the FICTION section of your local bookstore.

[Gauntlet]

But how many Christians watch TV? Should I get on here stating that I don't understand why Christians own such a device?

How are you able to access the Internet from the year 1880, where you must live?

[Murse32]

But how many Christians watch TV? Should I get on here stating that I don't understand why Christians own such a device?

How are you able to access the Internet from the year 1880, where you must live?

Ha Ha. I work for CERN...we have invented time travel...So, I'll usually jump back and forth in time with my morning coffee so that I can post with you fine folks. Actually, what I just typed is fiction...though I do have coffee in the morning, so, Part of it is true.

Nice to see you just pulled a little piece of my quote without the entire piece to grasp the point I was trying to make...thanks for that, appreciate it. LOL. Guess I'm going to be amish now.

[MorningGlory]

I love Dan Brown's books; he's an amazingly gifted author. But...I don't read them as history books. They are FICTION. This is the same stuff that was bandied about for years after the "Da Vinci Code". Honestly.....

Dan Brown himself has made the claim in more then one interview that his books are based on fact. He said he would not have wasted time writing them if they were just fiction.

Further more the "DaVinci Code" is outright blashphemy. It's hard to see how anyone who believes in Jesus Christ and loves God, could enjoy any form of entertainment

that denies and blasphemes who he his.

Well said! Any Believer that tabbles in the reading of such books I would sincerely recommend that they avoid. Satan is a mighty foe and not to be underestimated. His finger can be seen clearly in the world of "fiction reading" and in "Movie making". God's Word in Phillipines 4:8 clearly tells us what the Christian is "to think upon." These books do not in any way hold up.

They are FICTION! Anyone with any intelligence at all can read fiction and not assume it's hard fact. I didn't assume the Three Little Pigs built houses for themselves either.

Well their are plenty of people who see the information in Brown's book as factual albeit woven through a fictitious storyline. A good example was when Brown was taken to court for copyright infringement by the authors of "Holy Blood, Holy Grail" a book written back in the 70s which basically puts for the same information in Dan Brown's book. Their book was not all that well received and didn't really make a splash. Brown's book contains the same information and is a major best-seller and is the basis for a movie. You can imagine their consternation at this.

The court asked the authors if their book was a book of fact or fiction. If they considered their research to be fact, the court maintained that they cannot copyright facts. If it was fiction, then they had grounds for their suit. The suit was dropped because they could not bring themselves to render all of their research useless by claiming that "Holy Blood, Holy Grail" was a work of fiction.

Dan uses fiction, but weaves what he and many others consider fact into a fictitious story using fictitious characters. This is not like a John Grisham novel. Much of the information presented in the books is seen as factual even if it uses a fictitious. Even the Lourve in Paris told of a spike in tourism due to people wanting to examine the works of art mentioned in the Da Vinci Code movie.

That's interesting about the spike in the number of people visiting the Louvre; I hadn't heard that before. I think the problem with these books isn't the subject matter, or whether it's factual or fictional; it's a reading audience who, to a certain degree, is clueless. You don't have to be a Harvard grad to be informed on matters that are important. Like whether a book is fact or fiction.....before you read it! Many, many people walk through the world oblivious to what's going on because of intellectual laziness.....having nothing to do with intelligence.

[AnnaMoodley]

I agree with you Moseby.

You mean you have seen Brown in interviews state that his books are based on fact?

No i meant i agree that i don't understand how Christians could regard the DaVinci Code as good entertainment. Can i just ask if you'll think that Jesus would have enjoyed reading the book/watching the movie?

With all due respect, and not wishing to bash...I don't understand your thinking. Do you really think Jesus would enjoy watching the news? pass time on the internet? get married? Yet, these are things we christians do on a normal basis. This WWJD mentallity is limited to a "love" factor. The love factor encompasses our beliefs and our walk in life. It does not base what we should watch or what we should deem entertaining. Yes, I agree, there are some shows and books that bother me...so I choose not to read them or watch them...period. But things like the "Davinci Code", I as a christian, can see what it is...MAKE BELIEVE. I have not met one person yet who believed in Christ to accept the Davinci Code as a biblical truth. As far as the OP goes though, it was based on some person bashing Dan Brown...I'm not standing up for Brown saying he should be defended or that I am some hardcore Dan Brown fan, but to say his books are apalling because he doesn't do enough research is just wrong. He did pleanty of research that he didn't even have too!! It's a fiction book, it doesn't require it...yet he through in SOME truths to make it more entertaining.

It's like the book "The Shack". Great book!!!! Yet we see God as a heavy black woman, a lumberjack looking fella, and an asian woman. It's fiction, but great points are made...it would be like us judging this book because it goes against scripture in the fact that God doesn't have form in many aspects...it was made for entertainment and for a point to be made. If anyone hasn't read this book...I HIGHLY suggest it. First book that ever brought tears to my eyes.

to be honest...i would watch the news with Jesus right next to me; i would invite Jesus to my wedding; and i would surf the net with Jesus....but i wouldn't ask Jesus to watch the daVinci Code with me. I'd have to say "now now Jesus just stay away from me for a while- i'm watching a movie that has a lot of blasphemy, taints your name, and may cause babies in the faith to lose their way."!

His life on earth was to die on the cross...the greatest event in history....making a mockery out of it is just wrong! I didn't say Dan Brown didn't research his books...i said i don't know how Christians could regard it as good entertainment... whether fiiction or not, i don't appreciate blasphemy.