Is Jesus Christ Very God?

[J Dee]

Jesus was 100% man and 100% God. He absolvd sins, exercised personal power over both death and nature, called Himself "Eternal Life," received worship, claimed to be pre-existent with God before the world was made, and applied titles to Himself that are reserved for God alone.

Those who deny the deity of Jesus, are rejecting an essential, defining element of the Christian faith. If all God needed was a man to die for our sins, Moses or Abraham would have been sufficient.

[Guest shiloh357]

Jesus said He has come to do the will of the Father.

Which is not an argument against His divinity.

Paul said that Jesus "learned" through His obedience. and somewhere else called Him the "second Adam" -The perfect man.

Yes, but that is still not an argument against His divinity. It is only an argument for his perfect humanity.

And NO. God did not need just any man to die for the sins of man. He created Jesus out of Fallen Mankind, born of a woman - 100% biological machine.

Sorry but Jesus claimed to share God's glory prior to his birth. Jesus is not a created being. You cannot provide any Scripture to support that assertion.

Inside - the living Word of God - (John 1) The physical man called Jesus was a tool in the hands of the Almighty God. a Human who was lifted up (exalted) above al creation,because of his submission to the Will of God the Father. but still a creation of God.

That sounds more like Unitarian or Jehovah's Witness theology.

Jesus did come in the flesh,can not deny that, He has done His duty and died for mankind. He destroyed the works of the evil one and he opened the door(which is Himself - word of God -) to the Kingdom of God.

But that Bible says in John 1 that the Word of God was with God and WAS God.

For the church to survive and to take control over its worshippers it had to create a "new" God. Sort of the same as potraited in the OT but better.

LOL, you are really, really reaching on that one. Sorry, but true followers of Christ know that He is God.

God the Father never abdicated. We pray TO the Father THROUGH Jesus Christ. Every thing you ask in my name.........

Who is answering your prayers,Who is doing the healing,saving? God the Father.

Whose children do we become through believing the redemption plan of God - God the Father.

So far, you have not presented ONE thing that is an argument against Jesus' deity. All you have done is make a lot of empty assertions and have provided little in the way of Scripture.

Faith in Jesus Christ will not end if he is not seen as a Deity but the church will come to an end.

If you reject Him as God, you have no faith in Christ, and besides, if Jesus is just a man, why would be the object of faith to begin with???

[mikerunk]

Let me explain something I never said that Christ was just a mere man, far from it but nor have I have read anything that leads me to believe he is God made flesh. Christ was given authority over all things by God, which Christ him self states many times in the bible. Having Authority is not the same thing as being God, it means that he has been given all the authority by God.

(note I'm explain what I know and you guys can correct me, I have a lot to learn. There is so much to learn and understand. The only way to learn is by share what I know and then allowing others to set me straight or expand upon what I know. So do not think I claim to be an expert.)

"This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased."

Mt 3:17

Here God himself calls Christ his son, and says he is well pleased with him. Now how can God be pleased with him self, that makes no sense. Also if Christ was God in flesh then why does he call him his son?

"Why do you entertain evil thoughts in your hearts? Which is easier: to say your sins are forgiven,' or to say, 'Get up and walk'? But so that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive Sins..."

Then he said to the paralytic,

Get up, take your mat and go home."

Mt 9:4-6

Again here there is no suggestion on his Christ part to claim he is God, he says that he has been given Authority to forgive Sins.

How is that the teachers of the slaw say that the Christ is the son of David? David himself, Speaking by the Holy Spirit, declared: "'The Lord said to my Lord: "Sit at my right hand until I put your enemies under feet"' David himself calls him 'Lord' How can then he be his Son.

Here is a passage that if read wrong could sound like Christ declare himself to be God but in fact he's not. What this passage is saying is that Christ is not the Son of David but the Son of God. Think of it this way, a King is often times called Lord, but so is the prince, so it is with Christ. Christ is the Son of God, we call God Lord and so it only reasons that title would also extend to Christ as well, and that was what Christ was explaining.

Many times in the bible Christ says My Father, if he is God why then does he call himself Father, that would make no sense and not to mention would only confuse people as to who Christ was.

Going in a little Farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, "My father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will."

Here Christ falls to his knees and ask God if the task that is about to fall upon him be passed from his hands not by his choice but by Gods. Now if Christ were God why would he be asking himself to pass this task from himself, it makes no sense.

I don't question that there is some deity rights to Christ but he is not God. God and Christ are two separate personality. Christ is not God but he is our Lord and Savior, and has been given full Authority by God to forgive use of our Sins.

Now like said, I have a lot to learn and by no means claim to be an expert. I do believe in Christ as my Lord and Savior and that God has given him full authority to forgive use of our sins. I believe that Christ was more then a mere man, he was truly the Son of God. I believe that God loved use so much that he allowed Christ be sacrificed so that our sins could be forgiven.

I know I have a lot to learn and I have no doubt that I will learn what I need to because I have faith in God, that he will teach me and guide me. It also doesn't hurt to have these forums to turn to. So please make corrections to what I have written I will listen and learn.

Edited January 19, 2010 by mikerunk

[mikerunk]

So been doing some internet searching and what not about Jesus and him being God. Now here the thing, I first stand corrected Jesus is indeed God. However I don't fully understand that. I don't get why he prays to himself, why he calls himself the Son of God. All I know is I have so very much to learn.

[BlindSeeker]

So been doing some internet searching and what not about Jesus and him being God. Now here the thing, I first stand corrected Jesus is indeed God. However I don't fully understand that. I don't get why he prays to himself, why he calls himself the Son of God. All I know is I have so very much to learn.

Hey Mike,

I invite you to read my thread on the deity of Jesus called Justified in the Spirit.

Many of your questions I believe would be addressed.

Peace,

William

[KnowWhatJesusDid]

Awesome Post VERY VERY VERY GOOD!

God Bless You.

[mikerunk]

So the last two days I been reading up on God/Jesus trying to figure out who he is exactly, because who I thought he was and who he really is are two different things. Now making sense of all this can be a bit confusing. So I decided to sit down and write down and write down what I have learn or think I have learned and then post it and that way I can be corrected if I am wrong about something. So let use begin shall we.

Now at first I believed God and Jesus were two different personality, however I found out that I was wrong. I learned that Jesus was actually God made flesh and that he entered that flesh to come and teach use and to die for our sins.

However this left me confused, how can Jesus pray to him self if in fact he truly is God. However as I have come to understand it that God is beyond time, he is every where at every point in time at the same time. So thus Jesus who was God made flesh prayed to the God who was every were and at every point in time at the same exact time. If that makes sense, lets just say I understand it in my head but explain is rather difficult.

Now as I understand it this all came about because Satan basically walked up to the throne of God and made all sorts of accusations against him, and some of the angles sided with Satan. While other side with God. However God didn't want vengeance but wanted to basically prove a point, that Satan's accusations were a lie. So he made himself lower then the Angels and became a man, and then became a servant to the use mere mortals, by healing sick, preaching and what not, then he died allowed himself to be sacrificed even though he was completely innocent and had every right to fight back. Thus destroying Satan's accusations and lies once and for all and proving himself, which he shouldn't have had to do to begin with but did so because he is a loving God and wanted to prove that.

That is what I have learned so far, I know that I still have a lot to learn and some of that maybe wrong. This is the reason why I'm posting this to get feed back and corrections if I am wrong about something.

One thing I will admit is that all this is a lot to take in all at once. I don't denie that Christ is God, and that God basically lowered himself to save all mankind. However its hard to take that in all at once. I know I have a lot to learn and I so much want God to change my heart and mind to change me in to the person he wants me to be. I know I can only get there by studying the bible and by praying.

[BlindSeeker]

So the last two days I been reading up on God/Jesus trying to figure out who he is exactly, because who I thought he was and who he really is are two different things. Now making sense of all this can be a bit confusing. So I decided to sit down and write down and write down what I have learn or think I have learned and then post it and that way I can be corrected if I am wrong about something. So let use begin shall we.

Now at first I believed God and Jesus were two different personality, however I found out that I was wrong. I learned that Jesus was actually God made flesh and that he entered that flesh to come and teach use and to die for our sins.

However this left me confused, how can Jesus pray to him self if in fact he truly is God. However as I have come to understand it that God is beyond time, he is every where at every point in time at the same time. So thus Jesus who was God made flesh prayed to the God who was every were and at every point in time at the same exact time. If that makes sense, lets just say I understand it in my head but explain is rather difficult.

Now as I understand it this all came about because Satan basically walked up to the throne of God and made all sorts of accusations against him, and some of the angles sided with Satan. While other side with God. However God didn't want vengeance but wanted to basically prove a point, that Satan's accusations were a lie. So he made himself lower then the Angels and became a man, and then became a servant to the use mere mortals, by healing sick, preaching and what not, then he died allowed himself to be sacrificed even though he was completely innocent and had every right to fight back. Thus destroying Satan's accusations and lies once and for all and proving himself, which he shouldn't have had to do to begin with but did so because he is a loving God and wanted to prove that.

That is what I have learned so far, I know that I still have a lot to learn and some of that maybe wrong. This is the reason why I'm posting this to get feed back and corrections if I am wrong about something.

One thing I will admit is that all this is a lot to take in all at once. I don't denie that Christ is God, and that God basically lowered himself to save all mankind. However its hard to take that in all at once. I know I have a lot to learn and I so much want God to change my heart and mind to change me in to the person he wants me to be. I know I can only get there by studying the bible and by praying.

Certainly these are things which I agree with. That is why a invited you to read my old thread where scripture was provided to substantiate my reason for believing these things.

[mikerunk]

First let me start off by thanking Blindseeker for sending me to your post it was very very helpful. Second let me say that this is very hard concept to wrap my mind around, not that I don't believe it but wrapping my brain around it fully is rather difficult to do. One thing I know is that after reading through the post Blindseeker posted I realized that I love God even more. I think that the most gripping aspect to what I have learned is that God humbled him self by becoming a Man and serving use mere humans and then to die for our sins there by proving that Satan was wrong about him. To me that is the most amazing aspect of what I have learn. This is our creator, the one who created the Angels them selves and shouldn't have to prove anything, he could snuff everything out and be done with it and yet he choose not to. He choose to prove himself not in words but in action.

I have always struggled with God, I have even hated him and blamed him for all my problems. It took me a long time to realize that my problems were by other human hands or by my own. It took me a long time to realize how blessed my life was and how God has always been there for me even when I spit in his face, lied and basically made some of the same accusations that Satan made and yet he still loved me and was there for me. I have sense woken up but to build a relationship with God after allowing so much darkness in to my life (and that is what it really is, darkness. I allowed Satan to consume my thoughts with anger and hate till I couldn't see straight) has been very difficult. There so much I don't know and understand. I know that I want to serve God, and that I want to obey him. However the times often feel like I'm off like I may be getting this all wrong. I think I'm not praying right or because I mess up and make the same sinful mistakes over and over that I'm not learn. These things leave me frustrated and doubting myself and if I'm doing this right.

It is really hard to really explain what is going on in my heart because I really don't understand myself. I only know I want to serve God, I want to obey him and love him. I want to learn what I need to. I have come to realize that I need him so very much, not because of what he can do for me but because I know I can't change with out him. When I look at my life I realize that when ever I follow my own desires, my own wants and ideas they lead me to ruin. Yet when ever I have followed God and not my own desires, which I will admit is very limited, he has never lead me astray.

Right now I don't know if I'm on the right track or not. The only thing I do know is that I will continue to read the bible and put my faith in him and believe that he will get me were I need to be and more to the point he will get me to the point were he wants me to be. Any way I'm sorry I took this in a completely different direction then I meant to, I just got started and couldn't stop. I thank you for listen and beg you to forgive me for going off topic.

[Fez]

I think that the most gripping aspect to what I have learned is that God humbled him self by becoming a Man and serving use mere humans and then to die for our sins there by proving that Satan was wrong about him. To me that is the most amazing aspect of what I have learn. This is our creator, the one who created the Angels them selves and shouldn't have to prove anything, he could snuff everything out and be done with it and yet he choose not to. He choose to prove himself not in words but in action.

It is really hard to really explain what is going on in my heart because I really don't understand myself. I only know I want to serve God, I want to obey him and love him. I want to learn what I need to. I have come to realize that I need him so very much, not because of what he can do for me but because I know I can't change with out him. When I look at my life I realize that when ever I follow my own desires, my own wants and ideas they lead me to ruin. Yet when ever I have followed God and not my own desires, which I will admit is very limited, he has never lead me astray.

Right now I don't know if I'm on the right track or not. The only thing I do know is that I will continue to read the bible and put my faith in him and believe that he will get me were I need to be and more to the point he will get me to the point were he wants me to be. Any way I'm sorry I took this in a completely different direction then I meant to, I just got started and couldn't stop. I thank you for listen and beg you to forgive me for going off topic.

Mike! Bless you, you are so on track with this new found love for Jesus it makes my heart sing!!! I agree with what a lot of what you say, and there is just so much more. You are seeking answers and that is awesome!

One thing I would caution you about is your statement (and I know it is from the heart ). Jesus did not have to die to prove satan wrong. God had already done that when He cast him out of heaven. Jesus came, in a way, to prove that we were wrong... Wrong in our sin. He came because He loves us, because He is love, He cannot by His very nature be anything else. He came so that He might die for our sins, wash us clean for our sins. He could have cast us out as well, to follow satan, but because of His awesome Grace He chose instead to die for us.

And that always leaves me humbled.

Blessings, and please keep this up, i love reading what you have to say