Point of No Return Marriage

[Believer1997]

The point I was making is that Jesus was very clear about the fact that divorce for any cause other than fornication leads to adultery. I don't consider following the teachings of Jesus legalism.

Matthew 7:24-27

24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock.

25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:

27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

Matthew 5:17-20

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

We need to strive to live by the teachings of the Bible, and when Jesus tells us something, we need to strive to live according to his words. Again, what did Christ teach about divorce? Matthew 5:31-32

31 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement:

32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whoseover shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

Jesus' disciples were having a hard time with this teaching. Matthew 19:10-12

10 His disciples say unto him, If the case of the man be so with his wife, it is not good to marry.

11 But he said unto them, All men cannot receive this saying, save they to whom it is given.

12 For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.

Even after the disciples stated their concerns about this, Jesus didn't waver. Instead he told the disciples that marriage is not for everyone. It used to be that when a person married, especially a Christian, it was for better or worse, till death do you part. Unfortunately, over time, we have gotten to the place where we enter marriage thinking that we will remain in it till things get hard, and then we will get a divorce. That is not God's will.

If I can give a hypothetical scenario.

Wife has actual "transcript" of a very explicit conversation between her husband and another female, not just one conversation and not just with one female but many. Does this prove he had lust in his heart?

Wife confronts husband and he states he was just messing around and meant nothing by it, then also throws in there he knew she was recording what he was doing, so he did it on purpose to teach her a lesson.

As stated, I believe up above, only God knows what is in ones heart. But is the wife to turn the other cheek and let him slap that one too and if so how many times? Obviously this husband isn't taking his vows seriously.

As much as women need to follow this verse

Ephesians 5:22

Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.

Shouldn't the husband be following this one?

Ephesians 5:25

Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

Obviously the above is not a hypothetical but what I have actually been dealing with since the first yr of our marriage. There are other things I had discovered as well over the past 12 yrs of our marriage. Do I have concrete proof? No, I have never actually caught him in the act myself. I have what I have been told by others and also the "womans intuition". In our first 6 yrs of dating I had inklings of dishonesty but they were put off as me being a very untrustworthy person.

I believe those things are very wrong and they damage the basic trust that married people should have within their bond. I believe that once those very foundational bonds are damaged - the marriage is hard to "heal". But, God can heal anything - it is a question of how long one is willing to undergo what is really emotional abuse to see if the partner will ever 'come around'. Praying for you Startingover...

[desi2007]

The point I was making is that Jesus was very clear about the fact that divorce for any cause other than fornication leads to adultery. I don't consider following the teachings of Jesus legalism.

Matthew 7:24-27

24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock.

25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:

27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

Matthew 5:17-20

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

We need to strive to live by the teachings of the Bible, and when Jesus tells us something, we need to strive to live according to his words. Again, what did Christ teach about divorce? Matthew 5:31-32

31 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement:

32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whoseover shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

Jesus' disciples were having a hard time with this teaching. Matthew 19:10-12

10 His disciples say unto him, If the case of the man be so with his wife, it is not good to marry.

11 But he said unto them, All men cannot receive this saying, save they to whom it is given.

12 For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.

Even after the disciples stated their concerns about this, Jesus didn't waver. Instead he told the disciples that marriage is not for everyone. It used to be that when a person married, especially a Christian, it was for better or worse, till death do you part. Unfortunately, over time, we have gotten to the place where we enter marriage thinking that we will remain in it till things get hard, and then we will get a divorce. That is not God's will.

If I can give a hypothetical scenario.

Wife has actual "transcript" of a very explicit conversation between her husband and another female, not just one conversation and not just with one female but many. Does this prove he had lust in his heart?

Wife confronts husband and he states he was just messing around and meant nothing by it, then also throws in there he knew she was recording what he was doing, so he did it on purpose to teach her a lesson.

As stated, I believe up above, only God knows what is in ones heart. But is the wife to turn the other cheek and let him slap that one too and if so how many times? Obviously this husband isn't taking his vows seriously.

As much as women need to follow this verse

Ephesians 5:22

Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.

Shouldn't the husband be following this one?

Ephesians 5:25

Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

Obviously the above is not a hypothetical but what I have actually been dealing with since the first yr of our marriage. There are other things I had discovered as well over the past 12 yrs of our marriage. Do I have concrete proof? No, I have never actually caught him in the act myself. I have what I have been told by others and also the "womans intuition". In our first 6 yrs of dating I had inklings of dishonesty but they were put off as me being a very untrustworthy person.

I believe those things are very wrong and they damage the basic trust that married people should have within their bond. I believe that once those very foundational bonds are damaged - the marriage is hard to "heal". But, God can heal anything - it is a question of how long one is willing to undergo what is really emotional abuse to see if the partner will ever 'come around'. Praying for you Startingover...

Amen !! believer, I am with you when it comes to a marriage that one does not honor or take marriage vows seriously, how can a marriage work.

Startingtoday, The thing here is that you should Understand your value in Gods eyes never changes. God is a forgiving God.

Don't let other people influence your estimation of your value.

Its like how long are you going to mourn over a failed relationship? When we focus on our disappointments we STOP God from bringing blessings in our lives.

James 4:4

Adulterers and adulteresses do you not know that friendship with the WORLD is enmity with God? whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.

Colossians 3:19

HUSBANDS, love your WIVES and do not be bitter toward them.

"God will keep you in perfect peace" you can have peace in the midst of a storm.

God wants you to have a good life with joy, peace and fulfillment, God causes all things to work together for good to those who love Him.

[Murse32]

Thank you very much for your kind words and encouragement.

I worry everyday about my salvation and question it everyday. I constantly think "am I truly saved?" Will God look at me and say "I do not know you", this scares me to death. I repent over and over for the sins I have commited and at times continue to commit. I've heard many say "if you are questioning your salvation, then you really aren't a child of God". I don't know if this is true or not.

What does it mean to be truly saved? How do we truly know if we are a child of God. I believe Jesus died on the cross for our sins, I know he was resurrected 3 days later. I have asked Jesus into my heart and have asked for my sins to be forgiven. Is that it?

I try so very hard to follow the word of God and fail way to often. I know I am not perfect by any means nor do I try to be perfect. But I have read how so many others are bless because of their walk with Jesus. Don't get me wrong, I am blessed in many ways, first and foremost my 2 beautiful girls, I have a roof over my head, food to eat, and a job to pay the bills. But I am not happy, I feel I am a miserable soul. I feel that God just needs to give up on me and move on to someone so much more deserving of His forgiveness and love. How does He not tire of me and my failures? I feel I am truly at a dead end in my life and there is no where else to turn.

Awww sister, You are going through what many have gone through before. Don't ever let anyone tell you that you aren't saved because you have doubts. I, myself, used to have doubts all the time. It was basically because I felt the same way you do now. I felt that I wasn't worthy, I couldn't offer anything, or that I kept sinning therefore I couldn't be saved...Than, I began to study my bible and realized something beautiful....That is exactly why Jesus died for us...Because NO ONE is good enough, NO ONE can offer God anything, and we are sinners therefore, we need HIM. It's upon this epiphany that we begin to realize just how much God does love us and wishes to be with us. If you believe in Christ and have accepted Him...you are saved.

If you spend more time worrying about your salvation, that is just the works of the enemy doing his best to steal your joy. He knows that he lost the battle, but now he just does what he can to make you stumble. You asked how one can truly know if they are saved? The Holy Spirit. Do you ever feel conviction? Do you ever proclaim Jesus is Lord? Do you ever feel guided by the Spirit? If you answered yes to any of these...than you have the Holy Spirit within you...The Holy Spirit is your SEAL and proof that you are HIS.

The importance of knowing that you are saved, is the joy and freedom that comes with knowing. Once you have joy and freedom, you allow yourself to be lead by the Spirit instead of trying so hard to follow Gods rules and constantly fail. Just living by the letter allows for failure. To be lead, allows for growth and happiness. Some people get this right away, some, it's takes many years. You'll get it my sister, just have patience and keep your eyes on Him. He loves you and so do I.

With love in Christ.

Dave

[SamP]

My Friend, may I please tell you a story that happened long ago?

Goodyear came out with the "blimp." (This was many moons back.) Men were holding it down with ropes in a strong wind, trying to keep it from going up in orbit like a baloon let go. Suddenly, it broke loose and several men, kept holding on until it was quite a distance up, then they lost their hold, and fell to their death.

However, one man who kept holding on, realizing if he turned loose, would fall to his death far below. So, he took the strong rope and managed to wrap it around himself so that he could actually sit and take the weight off his arms.

Several hours later, he was rescued.

When they got him safe down to the ground, they ask him how he could hold on so long without falling to his death? Here is what he answered...

"I knew I didn't have the strength or ability to hang on, so I just wrapped the rope around me and enjoyed the beautiful scenery."

The Bible says in (Proverbs 3:5,6) "TRUST IN THE LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths."

Like Dave said above, none of us can live a Christian life by ourself. That's why God gave His Son Jesus to die and rise again. For our Salvation.

"If the Son therefore shall make you FREE, ye shall be FREE indeed." (John 8:36)

"Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:" (Rom.3:24)

" But now being made FREE from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life." (Rom.6:22)

(Rom.8:32) "He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

Take God at His Word by Faith. Let Him wrap His arms around you, and you can sit back, relax, knowing you're safe in Him. Enjoy your Christian walk .

Read your Bible and pray, if possible first thing in morning before your children, husband, or anyone else is up. Spend time alone with God, your KJV Bible, and have wonderful talks and fellowship in prayer and praise.

Don't go by feelings in the flesh. Don't go by mens words. Go by what God and His Word says. God Bless You. We're praying for you.

[StartingToday]

I believe those things are very wrong and they damage the basic trust that married people should have within their bond. I believe that once those very foundational bonds are damaged - the marriage is hard to "heal". But, God can heal anything - it is a question of how long one is willing to undergo what is really emotional abuse to see if the partner will ever 'come around'. Praying for you Startingover...

I have forgiven him over and over. Just when I think we are going to make it work he goes back to his old routine. I think he just gets bored. To be completely honest with you though, I honestly gave up 2 yrs ago. I just became emotional exhausted. I told my husband back in Decemeber I have given all I have and have nothing more to offer. We are now living as roommates. I make no attempt whatsoever to make ammends with him. He recently told me he knows the marriage is over and he accepts it.

This is where I am having most of my problems though. Because I am not being a Godly wife and I feel horrible because I don't want to be. I guess I need assurance God is going to forgive me for not being the wife He expects me to be.

God Bless

[Believer1997]

I believe those things are very wrong and they damage the basic trust that married people should have within their bond. I believe that once those very foundational bonds are damaged - the marriage is hard to "heal". But, God can heal anything - it is a question of how long one is willing to undergo what is really emotional abuse to see if the partner will ever 'come around'. Praying for you Startingover...

I have forgiven him over and over. Just when I think we are going to make it work he goes back to his old routine. I think he just gets bored. To be completely honest with you though, I honestly gave up 2 yrs ago. I just became emotional exhausted. I told my husband back in Decemeber I have given all I have and have nothing more to offer. We are now living as roommates. I make no attempt whatsoever to make ammends with him. He recently told me he knows the marriage is over and he accepts it.

This is where I am having most of my problems though. Because I am not being a Godly wife and I feel horrible because I don't want to be. I guess I need assurance God is going to forgive me for not being the wife He expects me to be.

God Bless

StartingOver - I believe that God forgives us of all things - if we but ask Him. Pray to Him to show you the way. God Bless You.

[StartingToday]

Awww sister, You are going through what many have gone through before. Don't ever let anyone tell you that you aren't saved because you have doubts. I, myself, used to have doubts all the time. It was basically because I felt the same way you do now. I felt that I wasn't worthy, I couldn't offer anything, or that I kept sinning therefore I couldn't be saved...Than, I began to study my bible and realized something beautiful....That is exactly why Jesus died for us...Because NO ONE is good enough, NO ONE can offer God anything, and we are sinners therefore, we need HIM. It's upon this epiphany that we begin to realize just how much God does love us and wishes to be with us. If you believe in Christ and have accepted Him...you are saved.

If you spend more time worrying about your salvation, that is just the works of the enemy doing his best to steal your joy. He knows that he lost the battle, but now he just does what he can to make you stumble. You asked how one can truly know if they are saved? The Holy Spirit. Do you ever feel conviction? Do you ever proclaim Jesus is Lord? Do you ever feel guided by the Spirit? If you answered yes to any of these...than you have the Holy Spirit within you...The Holy Spirit is your SEAL and proof that you are HIS.

The importance of knowing that you are saved, is the joy and freedom that comes with knowing. Once you have joy and freedom, you allow yourself to be lead by the Spirit instead of trying so hard to follow Gods rules and constantly fail. Just living by the letter allows for failure. To be lead, allows for growth and happiness. Some people get this right away, some, it's takes many years. You'll get it my sister, just have patience and keep your eyes on Him. He loves you and so do I.

With love in Christ.

Dave

Dave

Thank you so much for your post. The holy spirit convicts me a lot. There have been times in life I have literally felt God touch me and then times when I feel that He has left me because I haven't changed my ways.

Your words of encouragement makes sense. I am in a constant battle with myself, I always call it a tug-of-war between God and me. I want to put complete trust in Him, then I start doubting that He is even there (not existing, just with me). I just need to change the way I think, but it is very difficulty thing to do.

Again thank you so much for all of your postings. It's very exhausting this war I have raging inside of me. I know if I can learn to trust God completely I will feel so much better.

God Bless

[Murse32]

Dave

Thank you so much for your post. The holy spirit convicts me a lot. There have been times in life I have literally felt God touch me and then times when I feel that He has left me because I haven't changed my ways.

You are very welcome. If the Holy Spirit convicts you, than it is with you. You may be able to grieve it, but not have it leave you.

John 14:16 - "And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever."

This is why so often we may stray and go down our own path, but He only allows us to go so far before He yanks us back.

Your words of encouragement makes sense. I am in a constant battle with myself, I always call it a tug-of-war between God and me. I want to put complete trust in Him, then I start doubting that He is even there (not existing, just with me). I just need to change the way I think, but it is very difficulty thing to do.

Oh boy!! These words sound ever so familiar...sounds like many years of my life. The only difference, Is I've never seen it as a tug-of-war between us. I've always visualized God and I holding the rope together, or God carrying it for me...BUT, as soon as I give that rope a yank, He lets go...He takes a seat and waits for me. After trying to carry it for so long and realizing how heavy it really is, I always come back and say..."It's too heavy, would you mind carrying this thing for me?"..He just smiles and says..."I thought you'd never ask". It is too easy to fall into the imaginations of our own mind. We sin, therefore we feel God has left...He is always there, just as I have said before...we have just built a curtain that needs tearing down. In the old temple, there was a curtain that seperated the priests from the Mercy seat of God...When Jesus died, this curtain was torn...the sin was gone and we were reconciled with our Father. Though that curtain is still gone to this day, it is possible for us to put up a temporary curtain with our sins...but it is so easily torn down when we come back to Him. The same goes in our lives...we may put that curtain up...but He is still there waiting. Keep in mind, that temple now, is YOU. He still dwells within the temple...we just seperate ourselves from Him.

Again thank you so much for all of your postings. It's very exhausting this war I have raging inside of me. I know if I can learn to trust God completely I will feel so much better.

God Bless

Again, you are very welcome. Yes you are correct on both accounts. We can be our own worst enemy but if you give up things to His will...It always works out for the best.

Romans 8:28 "And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose".

It is a difficult task at times though...we feel like Peter climbing out of the boat and onto the water...we believe, but when we realize what we're doing, we panic and go into the water. Some are so quick to give God all things, but just as quick to snatch them back when they aren't going according to OUR plan...You are not alone here...but there are many people who love you and will stick by you through your walk...I am one. God bless you as well my sister. My prayers are with you.

With love in Christ.

Edited May 26, 2009 by Murse32

[yesult]

Thank you very much for your kind words and encouragement.

I worry everyday about my salvation and question it everyday. I constantly think "am I truly saved?" Will God look at me and say "I do not know you", this scares me to death. I repent over and over for the sins I have commited and at times continue to commit. I've heard many say "if you are questioning your salvation, then you really aren't a child of God". I don't know if this is true or not.

What does it mean to be truly saved? How do we truly know if we are a child of God. I believe Jesus died on the cross for our sins, I know he was resurrected 3 days later. I have asked Jesus into my heart and have asked for my sins to be forgiven. Is that it?

I try so very hard to follow the word of God and fail way to often. I know I am not perfect by any means nor do I try to be perfect. But I have read how so many others are bless because of their walk with Jesus. Don't get me wrong, I am blessed in many ways, first and foremost my 2 beautiful girls, I have a roof over my head, food to eat, and a job to pay the bills. But I am not happy, I feel I am a miserable soul. I feel that God just needs to give up on me and move on to someone so much more deserving of His forgiveness and love. How does He not tire of me and my failures? I feel I am truly at a dead end in my life and there is no where else to turn.

What does it mean to be truly saved? Give your whole life to him. No ifs or buts. Then get baptised (in the spirit and water baptized) and just follow where he leads.

He will lead you if you do that. And the bible says 'for he knows that we are but dust' and 'a broken spirit and contrite heart he will not despise'.

We can't impress God with our holiness because human righteousness 'is as filthy rags' in his eyes. What impresses him is our desire to do the right thing.

God knows we're human. He just wants us to do our best and he'll make up the slack.

The only other fine print is that we have to forgive everyone's sins against us for ours to be forgiven. But once again, that's a journey. But if we're willing God will faithfully take us through the whole thing because he loves us and he knows what we're capable of and when.

None of us can please a God who's perfect with our own strength, it's imposssible. That's why all he really cares about is our hearts and our efforts. And once we've given him our whole life - we can't really do any more, can we? The ball is then in his court.

[yesult]

And if you look in the bible at the passage on divorce. The word used to describe fornication or adultery is porniea. Porniea covers all serious sexual sin.

It also means perversion, homosexuality etc. If someone is making explicit phonecalls then that's over the line. God doesn't expect us to wait until our spouse actually commits adultery and comes home with an STD for us to pass on to our next husband or future children before letting us get a divorce.

Sexual sin (serious) is a breaking of the marriage covenant. Pray about it if anyone is in that situation and has doubts. God doesn't expect us to be somebody elses punching bag in this area. Marriage is not about sexual degradation or betrayal. And if it ever gets to that stage then the covenant is nullified.

When two people make a covenant, if one breaks it, the other is free to go.