Guest yod Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 He became part of the Christian Church when Christ revealed himself to Paul. He didn't have to officially join a local body to be part of that church. After his conversion, he became a missionary, and went about establishing local church bodies in differen't cities, and oversaw them. I think you completely missed my point....and I still say this is historically incorrect. Paul was NEVER a member of the christian church...and he NEVER planted a christian church either. He saw what he was doing as an extension of the faith of the remnant of Israel going to the nations. Not a new religion separate from Israel. Christianity didn't happen until the gentiles kicked the jews out because they hated them. Then they had to start something different. This is the root of what we have today. It should be another thread though...don't want to hijack this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Butero Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 He became part of the Christian Church when Christ revealed himself to Paul. He didn't have to officially join a local body to be part of that church. After his conversion, he became a missionary, and went about establishing local church bodies in differen't cities, and oversaw them. I think you completely missed my point....and I still say this is historically incorrect. Paul was NEVER a member of the christian church...and he NEVER planted a christian church either. He saw what he was doing as an extension of the faith of the remnant of Israel going to the nations. Not a new religion separate from Israel. Christianity didn't happen until the gentiles kicked the jews out because they hated them. Then they had to start something different. This is the root of what we have today. It should be another thread though...don't want to hijack this one. You are probably right in that this should be in another thread, but I am not sure what title it should be given? Let me see if I can clarify this a little better? There is natural Israel, and spiritual Israel. Natural Israel are the descendants of Abraham. They are the natural branches. Then there is spiritual Israel, those who have accepted Jesus as their Lord and Savior. Spriritual Israel is made up of believers who are natural Jews and adopted Jews. There are not really two separate bodies. Even under the law, a person could become a Jew by placing themselves under the law of Moses. There are examples of gentiles doing this. Today, we become a Jew when we accept Jesus as our Lord and Savior. In the case of someone like myself, whose family tree goes back to Italy on my Father's side, and England, and some other European countries on my Mother's side, I became an adopted Jew when I got saved. That is why I have never understood how Christians could hate Jews? To hate the Jews is to hate ones self if you are a Christian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest yod Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 He became part of the Christian Church when Christ revealed himself to Paul. He didn't have to officially join a local body to be part of that church. After his conversion, he became a missionary, and went about establishing local church bodies in differen't cities, and oversaw them. I think you completely missed my point....and I still say this is historically incorrect. Paul was NEVER a member of the christian church...and he NEVER planted a christian church either. He saw what he was doing as an extension of the faith of the remnant of Israel going to the nations. Not a new religion separate from Israel. Christianity didn't happen until the gentiles kicked the jews out because they hated them. Then they had to start something different. This is the root of what we have today. It should be another thread though...don't want to hijack this one. You are probably right in that this should be in another thread, but I am not sure what title it should be given? Let me see if I can clarify this a little better? There is natural Israel, and spiritual Israel. Natural Israel are the descendants of Abraham. They are the natural branches. Then there is spiritual Israel, those who have accepted Jesus as their Lord and Savior. Spriritual Israel is made up of believers who are natural Jews and adopted Jews. There are not really two separate bodies. Even under the law, a person could become a Jew by placing themselves under the law of Moses. There are examples of gentiles doing this. Today, we become a Jew when we accept Jesus as our Lord and Savior. In the case of someone like myself, whose family tree goes back to Italy on my Father's side, and England, and some other European countries on my Mother's side, I became an adopted Jew when I got saved. That is why I have never understood how Christians could hate Jews? To hate the Jews is to hate ones self if you are a Christian. ok....I'm starting a new thread so this one doesn't get hijacked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gauntlet Posted May 31, 2009 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 788 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/18/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/18/1979 Share Posted May 31, 2009 Somebody brought a gun to church? Someone brought a deadly weapon into the House of God and used it to KILL another parishioner while (supposedly) in the presence of Jesus Christ? ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul1149 Posted May 31, 2009 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 106 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/31/2009 Status: Offline Share Posted May 31, 2009 I'm amazed by this news, though I probably shouldn't be. A lot of the problem is due to the Church's watered-down or nonexistent witness. I agree with Butero that no Christian church has any business allowing someone practicing sin as did Tiller to be a member. It's one thing to allow visitors, as well we should, but membership requires standards. The problem is that many of the churches have lowered their standards to an unrecognizable level. I was looking at a local church's "Credo for the 21st Century", and finally found Christ stuck in near the bottom - after environmentalism, lesbian and gay rights, etc. Prominent was their National Council of Churches affiliation and their interfaith activities with Buddhists (I have no problem reaching out to other religions, to a point). We are simply in a postmodern church world where anything goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gauntlet Posted May 31, 2009 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 788 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/18/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/18/1979 Share Posted May 31, 2009 should we allow an abortionist in our midst? should we allow an adulteress in our midst? should we allow a liar in our midst? should we allow a thief in our midst? should we allow a murder in our midst? should we allow any sinner in our midst? What about murderers? Should we allow them in our midst? Or should we install metal-detectors in our church buildings? Or just convert the church basement into a target-range? I'm outraged by this and I'm speaking up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gauntlet Posted May 31, 2009 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 788 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/18/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/18/1979 Share Posted May 31, 2009 I'm amazed by this news, though I probably shouldn't be. A lot of the problem is due to the Church's watered-down or nonexistent witness. I agree with Butero that no Christian church has any business allowing someone practicing sin as did Tiller to be a member. It's one thing to allow visitors, as well we should, but membership requires standards. The problem is that many of the churches have lowered their standards to an unrecognizable level. I was looking at a local church's "Credo for the 21st Century", and finally found Christ stuck in near the bottom - after environmentalism, lesbian and gay rights, etc. Prominent was their National Council of Churches affiliation and their interfaith activities with Buddhists (I have no problem reaching out to other religions, to a point). We are simply in a postmodern church world where anything goes. Including gunplay in the House of God, apparently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gauntlet Posted May 31, 2009 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 788 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/18/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/18/1979 Share Posted May 31, 2009 If you'ren going to squeeze a round off in church, it's best to use a silencer as to not disrupt the service. By bye, Worthy. I'm done with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 .... gunplay in the House of God.... The Heart Of Sin The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? Jeremiah 17:9 Needs The LORD's A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. Ezekiel 36:26 Salvation Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me. Psalms 51:10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthitjah Posted May 31, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 1,285 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 17,917 Content Per Day: 2.27 Reputation: 355 Days Won: 19 Joined: 10/01/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted May 31, 2009 If you'ren going to squeeze a round off in church, it's best to use a silencer as to not disrupt the service. By bye, Worthy. I'm done with you. Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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