Why Faith VS. Science, and not Faith AND Science?

[WolfBitn]

Why is it some people believe faith and science are mutually exclusive? My experience is that they actually reinforce one another from a Christian standpoint.

Wide range here, Discuss away!

[WolfBitn]

Why is it some people believe faith and science are mutually exclusive? My experience is that they actually reinforce one another from a Christian standpoint.

Wide range here, Discuss away!

I don't know that they reinforce one another. They seem to me to address two separate realms. Science deals with the material, with those things that can in some way be measured. God cannot be plotted on a graph. Religion addresses what happens to us after our deaths and deals with what we must do to achieve the desired results in the afterlife. But you said "they reinforce one another from a Christian standpoint." What about from a Jewish standpoint? Or from an Islamic standpoint? Or a Hindu standpoint? All these faiths deal with what comes after, just as Christianity does. Would you say science also reinforces them?

You do know that Christianity is only a sect of judaiism right? as for the other 2 no... Also i find your view on Christianity a little bit shortsighted, and i mean no offence by this. It addresses much more than what you assume however.

What does science address? What can science prove that you would think disproves the bible?

There have always been men of science who believed in God, and there have always been men of science who didnt. It seems that men like Steven Hawking for instance, look at the universe and want to know 'how God did it', and then there are men who look to say 'theres GOT to be a way to prove He didnt'

I think an unbias look at God can allow you to lay on the table "God did it" and be more theoreticly sound than anything out there currently.

[Guest]

.... Why is it some people believe faith and science are mutually exclusive? My experience is that they actually reinforce one another from a Christian standpoint ....

.... I don't know that they reinforce one another. They seem to me to address two separate realms. Science deals with the material, with those things that can in some way be measured. God cannot be plotted on a graph. Religion addresses what happens to us after our deaths and deals with what we must do to achieve the desired results in the afterlife. But you said "they reinforce one another from a Christian standpoint." What about from a Jewish standpoint? Or from an Islamic standpoint? Or a Hindu standpoint? All these faiths deal with what comes after, just as Christianity does. Would you say science also reinforces them?....

Science Deals With What Is Observable, Measurable And Repeatable.

Never Has "Here And Now" Science Contradicted Genesis Chapter One Through Revelation Chapter Twenty-Two.

Both Religion (Evolutionary Dogma, Islam, Hindu, Philosophies, Etc.) And The Holy Bible Deal In Origins, Values And Destines.

>>>>>()<<<<<

Without The Holy Spirit Man's Reason Can Never Plumb The Depths Contained Within The Holy Bible

For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.

For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

Isaiah 55:8-9

For The Holy Bible Is God Breathed

All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;

2 Timothy 3:16 (NASB)

THE Treasure Vault Of Truth

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

John 14:6 (KJV)

And THE Testimony Of Divine Eternal Love

But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Romans 5:8

And It's God Is The God Of Revalation

>>>>>()<<<<<

What Believers Know About The Holy Bible May Give You A Little View Into The Joy, The Reverence And The Hunger We Hold For The God Of The Book And For His Holy Words.

The BIBLE contains the mind of God, the state of man, the way of salvation, the doom of sinners, and the happiness of believers.

It's doctrines are holy, its precepts are binding, its histories are true, and its decisions immutable.

Read it to be wise, believe it to be safe, and practice it to be holy.

It contains light to direct you, food to support you, and comfort to cheer you.

It is the traveler's map, the pilgrim's staff, the pilot's compass, the soldier's sword, and the Christian's charter.

Here Paradise is restored, Heaven opened, and the gates of hell disclosed.

Christ is it's grand subject, our good the design, and the glory of God it's end.

It should fill the memory, rule the heart, and guide the feet.

Read it slowly, frequently, and prayerfully.

It is a mine of wealth, a paradise of glory, and a river of pleasure.

It is given you in life, will be opened at the judgement, and be remembered forever.

It involves the highest responsibility, will reward the greatest labor, and will condemn all who trifle with its sacred contents.

From the front of my Gideon Bible

Be Blessed Beloved

Love, Joe

Thy words were found, and I did eat them; and thy word was unto me the joy and rejoicing of mine heart: for I am called by thy name, O LORD God of hosts.

Jeremiah 15:16

[WolfBitn]

I would say it started as a sect. It is now a religion in its own right.

It doesnt work like that.. When cults rise they are given the christian lable by the world even though they arent of us... Now we have roots being denied us as well by that same world... rather slanted isnt it?

No Hitch my friend, we began as a Jewish sect, we remain a Jewish sect whether anyone recognizes it or not. Even in the bible itself we are called a sect of the jews on more than one occasion. If we believe the bible, and i do, then we must believe it all, as we are so often reminded by atheists. So allow me this luxury of believing the bible that founds my faith, as well as history, which bears out my statement to be true. What youre saying would be like telling the pharisees they are their own religion and the sadducees another... or methodists are one religion while baptists are another

What is it you think I assume?

That it only addresses the things you stated... this seems to be how you limit what the bible addresses. I assure you it addresses much more than your simplistic response would indicate... and again i say this not to offend, but only to enlighten.

What does science address? What can science prove that you would think disproves the bible?

That would require an indepth response, and I am thinking about bed right about now. Perhaps I can address that question later. Note: I make a distincton between disproving the Bible and disproving God.

Fair enough...

There have always been men of science who believed in God, and there have always been men of science who didnt. It seems that men like Steven Hawking for instance, look at the universe and want to know 'how God did it', and then there are men who look to say 'theres GOT to be a way to prove He didnt'

I don't know that Hawking believes in God. He certainly doesn't seem to believe in a personal God. I agree that scientists are divided on the question of God's existence, and probably those who do believe in God don't all believe the same things about him. Where I completely disagree with you is in the assertion that atheistic scientists seek to disprove God using physical evidence. For men such as Richard Dawkins, there is no evidence that proves the existence of God, but that being said he has no interest in using science to disprove the deity. Dawkins has clearly stated that there is no evidence to disprove God, so believing this he could never use science to that end. More specifically he would argue that it is not possible to prove a negative.

Dawkins lives his life to destroy faith when possible... so what youre saying doesnt hold much water with me here in this case

I think an unbias look at God can allow you to lay on the table "God did it" and be more theoreticly sound than anything out there currently.

That remains to be proved.

I intend to show you... "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth" Is much more scientificly sound than string theory which doesnt even qualify as a theory, yet so many cling so desperately to it... well they did, so many are now jumping ship.

[WolfBitn]

I intend to show you... "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth" Is much more scientificly sound than string theory which doesnt even qualify as a theory, yet so many cling so desperately to it... well they did, so many are now jumping ship.

Its a theory. Theories fail and theories thrive it all depends on how well the theory can evolve around the facts. The bolded isn't scientific at all its based on pure faith alone. Science means the continuous pursuit of the truth, not already claiming to have it. That's why they're all theories and not yet laws.

Matrix

String theory isnt a theory... it has theory attatched to it, but it doesnt qualify according to scientific definition, to be recognized as a theory... Several have claimed it was testable, and have tried, and every test falsified, but the theory itself has never been tested... only side issues to the supposed theory... it remains untestable

Also no offence my friend but thats a rather narrow view of science i would think. Science doesnt just operate on theory, science also operates on these laws you speak of... science uses these laws in persuit or creating more and more or understanding more and more.

My point is that an athiest has absolutely not one single theory that explains 'the big bang', or the cause of sudden expansion. On the other hand "God created" not only qualifies as a theory, its the ONLY valid theory on the table. If anyone disagrees with this, feel free to lay ON the table ANY valid theory... just one, explaining the causation of the expansion...

String theory doesnt work... it doesnt even qualify as a valid theory. Alan Guth himself admits the math for string theory just doesnt work out... he just 'wikes it'... and he is one of string theory's champions. Scientists have been jumping that ship for the last 5 years in droves scoffing at it, acknowledging that not only doesnt it work out, its not even testable. Not only must a theory 'work out' on paper (which string theory doesnt), it also HAS to be testable (which string theory isnt)... they keep saying "we need a bigger particle accellerator"

From Columbia University

http://www.math.columbia.edu/~woit/testable.pdf (Dr Peter Woit)

Is String Theory Testable?

Current Situation

Nothing like a conventional, falsifiable test exists. Simple string models

disagree with experiment, and the class of those one is forced to examine

to avoid this is too large to be predictive.

For this situation to change will require one of:

Dramatic new observations that provide direct evidence: cosmic

superstrings

Dramatic new observations that provide indirect evidence:

supersymmetry or branes at the LHC

Dramatic new insights into nature of non-perturbative string theory

^^^ i would sugest looking at the entire article as it lists many of the claims for testing that have been falsified... it just DOESNT work out even on paper, let alone through experimentation

The ONLY thing Guth can postulate is that gravity inverted, creating a singularity, and yet he has no way of explaining what was added to the equasion to cause gravity to invert.

Hawking on the other hand said "I want to know how God did it", and has spoken of God many times publicly and in his literature.

Theories can be time sensitive... the testing of theories can be time sensitive. For instance if we were to theorize concerning haleys comet's tail, we would need to WAIT until we could TEST the tail before we could advance the theory, and yet since it is in time testable it remains a valid theory.

GOD created the heavens and the earth is the ONLY theory on the table... nothing else comes close

So my quesiton is, why would the atheist try to brush it off the table and not honestly recognize that it is in fact the ONLY thing there?

Edited July 26, 2009 by WolfBitn

[Guest lovinghim4ever]

God created both Faith and Science, so we cannot keep them apart.

However, we must remember that . . .

Faith can do many things that Science can never explain.

But, there is nothing Science can do that Faith cannot account for.

Science is limited and cannot exist without God.

God is not limited and does not need Science to exist.

[Guest lovinghim4ever]

GOD created the heavens and the earth is the ONLY theory on the table... nothing else comes close

So my quesiton is, why would the atheist try to brush it off the table and not honestly recognize that it is in fact the ONLY thing there?

Because an atheist doesn't believe in much of anything worth believing in.

[MorningGlory]

Since God created science you'd think there wouldn't be much of a conflict. That comes from those that try to use science to advance their atheistic agenda. It will never work but......that won't stop those that work for another master from trying.

[MorningGlory]

I intend to show you... "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth" Is much more scientificly sound than string theory which doesnt even qualify as a theory, yet so many cling so desperately to it... well they did, so many are now jumping ship.

Its a theory. Theories fail and theories thrive it all depends on how well the theory can evolve around the facts. The bolded isn't scientific at all its based on pure faith alone. Science means the continuous pursuit of the truth, not already claiming to have it. That's why they're all theories and not yet laws.

Those that don't believe in the God that created them will never have the Truth...... regardless of how many years are spent banging their heads against the wall of delusion.

[Guest lovinghim4ever]

Since God created science you'd think there wouldn't be much of a conflict. That comes from those that try to use science to advance their atheistic agenda. It will never work but......that won't stop those that work for another master from trying.

Those that don't believe in the God that created them will never have the Truth...... regardless of how many years are spent banging their heads against the wall of delusion.

Way to go MorningGlory.

I don't know if it can be said any better than that.