WolfBitn Posted August 5, 2009 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 18 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 483 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/22/2009 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 5, 2009 How well do you read hebrew? Do you need a lexicon or another device to read it since you dont actually WRITE in Hebrew? How fluently do you read it without aids? And if you can read it without aid, why arent you able to write it?This is the last time I am going to tell you this, Wolf. I am not the topic of the debate. I have told you all you need to know. Any further personal questions aboutg me are going to be ignored and/or reported to the moderator as TOS violations. Shiloh im not the one that made it an issue... you did from post 30 I speak and read Hebrew and have been doing so for quite a while and I know what I am talking about. ...I have been reading and studying Hebrew for over 15 years, and I know of what speak. from post 32 The concept is there I learned Hebrew from a conservative Rabbi ...Again, I know what I am talking about. I know the language. You can kick against the goads all you want, but you are simply wrong. I am establishing HOW MUCH you know this language... how much of it you actually speak... a few words? How much of it you read and understand without an aid, if you dont claim to be able to write it YOU made this an issue so please clear up for me these apparent discrepencies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
traveller Posted August 5, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 827 Topics Per Day: 0.10 Content Count: 12,101 Content Per Day: 1.49 Reputation: 249 Days Won: 3 Joined: 04/01/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted August 5, 2009 I know that I don't have to post the ToS here, as we all know what's in it. The issues, only, people. Last warning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 How well do you read hebrew? Do you need a lexicon or another device to read it since you dont actually WRITE in Hebrew? How fluently do you read it without aids? And if you can read it without aid, why arent you able to write it?This is the last time I am going to tell you this, Wolf. I am not the topic of the debate. I have told you all you need to know. Any further personal questions aboutg me are going to be ignored and/or reported to the moderator as TOS violations. Shiloh im not the one that made it an issue... you did from post 30 I speak and read Hebrew and have been doing so for quite a while and I know what I am talking about. ...I have been reading and studying Hebrew for over 15 years, and I know of what speak. from post 32 The concept is there I learned Hebrew from a conservative Rabbi ...Again, I know what I am talking about. I know the language. You can kick against the goads all you want, but you are simply wrong. I am establishing HOW MUCH you know this language... how much of it you actually speak... a few words? How much of it you read and understand without an aid, if you dont claim to be able to write it YOU made this an issue so please clear up for me these apparent discrepencies Reported Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfBitn Posted August 5, 2009 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 18 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 483 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/22/2009 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 5, 2009 How well do you read hebrew? Do you need a lexicon or another device to read it since you dont actually WRITE in Hebrew? How fluently do you read it without aids? And if you can read it without aid, why arent you able to write it?This is the last time I am going to tell you this, Wolf. I am not the topic of the debate. I have told you all you need to know. Any further personal questions aboutg me are going to be ignored and/or reported to the moderator as TOS violations. Shiloh im not the one that made it an issue... you did from post 30 I speak and read Hebrew and have been doing so for quite a while and I know what I am talking about. ...I have been reading and studying Hebrew for over 15 years, and I know of what speak. from post 32 The concept is there I learned Hebrew from a conservative Rabbi ...Again, I know what I am talking about. I know the language. You can kick against the goads all you want, but you are simply wrong. I am establishing HOW MUCH you know this language... how much of it you actually speak... a few words? How much of it you read and understand without an aid, if you dont claim to be able to write it YOU made this an issue so please clear up for me these apparent discrepencies Reported Thats fine Shiloh, feel free to make the claim and then not answer for it... God bless you brother Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfBitn Posted August 5, 2009 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 18 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 483 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/22/2009 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 5, 2009 I know that I don't have to post the ToS here, as we all know what's in it. The issues, only, people. Last warning. No problems here Traveller He claimed to know the language and i only tried to see the degree to which this was true. I will be glad to address other issues, and i take it he is happy not to claim to be an authority Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
traveller Posted August 5, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 827 Topics Per Day: 0.10 Content Count: 12,101 Content Per Day: 1.49 Reputation: 249 Days Won: 3 Joined: 04/01/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted August 5, 2009 I know that I don't have to post the ToS here, as we all know what's in it. The issues, only, people. Last warning. No problems here Traveller He claimed to know the language and i only tried to see the degree to which this was true. I will be glad to address other issues, and i take it he is happy not to claim to be an authority Wolf - passive agressive isnt' the answer here either. You have a choice to test the answers he gave you by your own sources. Enough. I really don't want to close this thread. It has a lot of good meat in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 Brother Shiloh, Is "Self-Existent, the Eternal" actually part of the meaning of Jehovah or is it something that is affixed to the name? Thanks. Well, to be honest, Jehovah is not a real Hebrew word. YHVH is simply God's Name. I don't know that any meaning is affixed to it, beyond that. Shiloh, do you have any idea hows come it got to be Jehovah? and Jesus? no 'j's in either language, is there? so why did "they" use j? any clue? Jehovah is just an anglicized attempt at pronouncing YHVH. There are many attempts to do that by English translators. Yahweh is another example. In Hebrew, YHVH is never written with vowels. The letter J in English is only about 600 years old. It is the last letter added to the English alphabet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 How well do you read hebrew? Do you need a lexicon or another device to read it since you dont actually WRITE in Hebrew? How fluently do you read it without aids? And if you can read it without aid, why arent you able to write it?This is the last time I am going to tell you this, Wolf. I am not the topic of the debate. I have told you all you need to know. Any further personal questions aboutg me are going to be ignored and/or reported to the moderator as TOS violations. Shiloh im not the one that made it an issue... you did from post 30 I speak and read Hebrew and have been doing so for quite a while and I know what I am talking about. ...I have been reading and studying Hebrew for over 15 years, and I know of what speak. from post 32 The concept is there I learned Hebrew from a conservative Rabbi ...Again, I know what I am talking about. I know the language. You can kick against the goads all you want, but you are simply wrong. I am establishing HOW MUCH you know this language... how much of it you actually speak... a few words? How much of it you read and understand without an aid, if you dont claim to be able to write it YOU made this an issue so please clear up for me these apparent discrepencies Reported Thats fine Shiloh, feel free to make the claim and then not answer for it... God bless you brother If there is any problem with my claim, it will be borne out in the evidence. So far, I have been waiting for evidence from you that I can review. Up to this point, I have seen none, at least none that is actual, credible exegetical evidence. For example, if your position is correct, you should be able to provide real biblical evidence that God is ever referred to as "Gods" in Scripture. You need to produce ONE Jewish interlinear portion that translages Elohim as "Gods," and stuff like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfBitn Posted August 5, 2009 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 18 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 483 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/22/2009 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 5, 2009 If there is any problem with my claim, it will be borne out in the evidence. So far, I have been waiting for evidence from you that I can review. Up to this point, I have seen none, at least none that is actual, credible exegetical evidence. For example, if your position is correct, you should be able to provide real biblical evidence that God is ever referred to as "Gods" in Scripture. You need to produce ONE Jewish interlinear portion that translages Elohim as "Gods," and stuff like that. Shiloh, What you have shown is that you dindt know those 5 or 6 hebrew words had a singular form, and also that you thought one meant Egypt. Youce shown that you believe the singular YHWH to be used as a plural while you believe the plural Elohim should be singular. You say you believe the Father is an individual and He is God You say you believe Jesus is an individual and He is God You say that the Holy Spirit is an individual and HE is God You MUST then either believe that they are all 3 GOD individually and independant of one another OR that NEITHER of them are God individually and independent of one another... If NONE of them are God without the other, at which point do they become God? Are they God when only 2 are together? You complicate things Shiloh by going against the very grammatical rules of plural and singular You have no problem saying 3 are 1, you just have a problem saying all 3 are God, yet you just did. You have no problem at ALL saying that they are all 3 God joined as One, yet you want to take away their diety in their uniqueness? How is it possible that these 3 arent God individually? Which one do you assume REMAINS God when He is alone? Youre putting it backward when you imply there are 3 eternal ones who are not independantly God... the truth is THAT the shema says that the "3 Gods are ONE ETERNAL ONE" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfBitn Posted August 5, 2009 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 18 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 483 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/22/2009 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 5, 2009 wolf: why do you insist on twisting shiloh's words? he has answered your questions and corrected the mistakes you have made regarding what he has said, and still you repeat the same message--saying shiloh has said things he never said. why are you doing this? seems all you are proving is how poorly you are "listening". you told Traveller you would discuss other issues, and yet, here you are again attacking shiloh. do you have any clue how you are projecting yourself, your standards, and your integrity by acting this way? can you not see how shallow this whole thing is? the topic is interesting, and i've learned some things here. but your badgering of shiloh is getting a tad old. I dont know what you mean here... i addressed all the issues just now in my last post... neither has the badgering OR insult been made solely by me... but we're both brothers and big boys, no harm intetnded or done As far as anything i said was ssaid by shiloh in my last post, i can post his quotes... from post 41 God is three persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. from post 43 I believe that Jesus is God, the Father is God and the Holy Spirit is God. I do NOT believe they are indiviual "gods." So my quesiton becomes The shema claims that Elohim make one YHWH, why is shiloh claiming that 3 YHWH make one Elohim? If they are all 3 God, and yet individual, then this means NONE of them are God alone as shiloh states... i find that shocking that he would believe this frankly. None of them are God alone? I submit all 3 are God and all 3 are united as one, just as the shema advises us quite literally If God =1 and Jesus isnt God within Himself The Father isnt God within Himself The Holy Spirit isnt God within Himself then 0+0+0=0 It makes no sence whatsoever in this context... One cannot give that which he diesnt have This isnt the case of the shema saying three eternal ones is joined to make one God... she Shema says just the opposite... the PLURAL for God make up 1 Eternal one The Shema is very clear in this case So id like for shiloh to address this quandry Jesus=God and an individual The Father =God and an individual The Holy Spirit = God AND an individual... according to shilohs agreeing statement how can they be God united if they arent first God seperately? What IS their essence apart from one another? Each STOPS being God? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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