The Shema and the Trinity

[WolfBitn]

Hello and Shalom

One of my very favorite subjects of meditation inthe word concerns the multiplicity of our God... the fact He is a trinity and yet one. I love reading through passages and suddenly thinking "WOW, this has been there all along hinting at the fact that our 1 God is 3 individuals unified as 1 God. I dont pretend to understand how... God is all mighty and all powerful and i cant explain how he made the universe from nothing, but this doesnt detract from the truth He did, nor does it detract from the fact that 3 are 1.

I was reading the Shema... thinking of how Caiaphas quoted it as he rent his clothing during the trial of Christ. It occurred to em that this indeed was most ironic...

The Shema, as its called by religious Jews, whether messianic or rabbinical, is Deuteronomy 6:4, and gets its name from the very first word in the passage. It literally means "HEAR!"

Deuteronomy 6:4

Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord:

Caiaphas crucified our Lord by the hands of Pilot, on the charge that He made Himself equal with God, citing the very Shema itself as his justification... is it possible that he never considered the depth of the words? Was it fear of losing his position, was it pride? Who knows... i do know the very passage he cited to crucify our Lord was the one passage which should have given him reason to pause and think... reconsider...

Today we have many who believe in our God, but they do not believe Jesus is God... they may believe He is a good man, maybe they believe He was a deceiver, maybe a wonderful philosopher, but they believe there is one God and one alone... they ARE correct in a manner, yet the shema shows us the error of their thinking as well...

In Genesis, and all through the OT, God is called, in the Hebrew, "Elohim", which is the plural for "God" but here we have Eloheynu. This is nothing more than "Elohim" in the first person plural possessive, which causes us to add an "Our" to the noun. This word then literally means "Our Gods"... in the plural

So what does the Shema (Deuteronomy 6:4) say?

Deuteronomy 6:4

Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord:

Breaking this down in the Hebrew, here is what we have...

shema`Yisra'el YHWH 'Eloheynu YHWH echad

What an extremely interesting passage!

Shema=Hear, this is where we get the title for this passage... the Shema

Shema Yisra'el, = "Hear o Israel!"

YHWH= The Eternal One

Eloheynu= Our GODS

echad= ONE... but it has a very interesting usage... it is used ALWAYS to show severla units or things commbined into ONE unit... like 50 pennys is " 'echad' roll of pennys". It is ONE having been made ONE by 2 or more being items joined as ONE

YHWH= Eternal One

in other words...

HEAR O ISRAEL!!! THE ETERNAL ONE IS Our GODS UNITED OR JOINED AS ONE ETERNAL ONE!!!

This i would consider to be a very early referance to the Trinity. This doesnt specify a Trinity, doesnt specify ANY number, but it does specify more than one united or joined as one.

"Echad" is a key word here

[OneLight]

Not to take away from the heart of your post, Wolf, as I looked up the meaning of Shema, as I do when I come across something I know nothing about, I found this site Judaiam101:Shema. Not knowing about the Jewish faith, it appears as if it is more to the Shema then just one verse. Can anyone enlighten me as to which is the truth?

Deuteronomy 6:4-9

Sh'ma Yis'ra'eil Adonai Eloheinu Adonai echad.

Hear, Israel, the Lord is our God, the Lord is One.

Barukh sheim k'vod malkhuto l'olam va'ed.

Blessed be the Name of His glorious kingdom for ever and ever.

V'ahav'ta eit Adonai Elohekha b'khol l'vav'kha uv'khol naf'sh'kha uv'khol m'odekha.

And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might.

V'hayu had'varim ha'eileh asher anokhi m'tzav'kha hayom al l'vavekha.

And these words that I command you today shall be in your heart.

V'shinan'tam l'vanekha v'dibar'ta bam

And you shall teach them diligently to your children, and you shall speak of them

b'shiv't'kha b'veitekha uv'lekh't'kha vaderekh uv'shakh'b'kha uv'kumekha

when you sit at home, and when you walk along the way, and when you lie down and when you rise up.

Uk'shar'tam l'ot al yadekha v'hayu l'totafot bein einekha.

And you shall bind them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be for frontlets between your eyes.

Ukh'tav'tam al m'zuzot beitekha uvish'arekha.

And you shall write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates.

Deuteronomy 11:13-21

V'hayah im shamo'a tish'm'u el mitz'votai

And it shall come to pass if you surely listen to the commandments

asher anokhi m'tzaveh et'khem hayom

that I command you today

l'ahavah et Adonai Eloheikhem ul'av'do b'khol l'vav'khem uv'khol naf'sh'khem

to love the Lord your God and to serve him with all your heart and all your soul,

V'natati m'tar ar'tz'khem b'ito yoreh umal'kosh

v'asaf'ta d'ganekha v'tirosh'kha v'yitz'harekha.

That I will give rain to your land, the early and the late rains,

that you may gather in your grain, your wine and your oil.

V'natati eisev b'sad'kha liv'hem'tekha v'akhal'ta v'sava'ta.

And I will give grass in your fields for your cattle and you will eat and you will be satisfied.

Hisham'ru lakhem pen yif'teh l'vav'khem

v'sar'tem va'avad'tem Elohim acheirim v'hish'tachavitem lahem

Beware, lest your heart be deceived

and you turn and serve other gods and worship them.

V'charah af Adonai bakhem v'atzar et hashamayim v'lo yih'yeh matar

v'ha'adamah lo titein et y'vulah

And anger of the Lord will blaze against you, and he will close the heavens and there will not be rain,

and the earth will not give you its fullness,

va'avad'tem m'heirah mei'al ha'aretz hatovah asher Adonai notein lakhem.

and you will perish quickly from the good land that the Lord gives you.

V'sam'tem et d'varai eileh al l'vav'khem v'al naf'sh'khem

uk'shar'tem otam l'ot al yed'khem v'hayu l'totafot bein eineikhem.

So you shall put these, my words, on your heart and on your soul;

and you shall bind them for signs on your hands, and they shall be for frontlets between your eyes.

V'limad'tem otam et b'neikhem l'dabeir bam

And you shall teach them to your children, and you shall speak of them

b'shiv't'kha b'veitekha uv'lekh't'kha vaderekh uv'shakh'b'kha uv'kumekha

when you sit at home, and when you walk along the way, and when you lie down and when you rise up.

Ukh'tav'tam al m'zuzot beitekha uvish'arekha.

And you shall write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates.

L'ma'an yirbu y'maychem vi-y'may v'naychem al ha-adamah

asher nishba Adonai la-avotaychem latayt lahem ki-y'may ha-shamayim al ha-aretz.

In order to prolong your days and the days of your children on the land

that the Lord promised your fathers that he would give them, as long as the days that the heavens are over the earth.

Numbers 15:37-41

Vayo'mer Adonai el mosheh lei'mor

And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying...

Dabeir el b'nei Yis'ra'eil v'amar'ta aleihem

Speak to the children of Israel and say to them

v'asu lahem tzitzit al kan'fei vig'deihem l'dorotam

v'nat'nu al tzitzit hakanaf p'til t'kheilet

they should make themselves tzitzit (fringes) on the corners of their clothing throughout their generations,

and give the tzitzit of each corner a thread of blue.

V'hayah lakhem l'tzitzit ur'item oto uz'khar'tem et kol mitz'vot Adonai

va'asitem otam v'lo taturu acharei l'vav'khem v'acharei eineikhem

asher atem zonim achareihem

And they shall be tzitzit for you, and when you look at them you will remember all of the Lord's commandments

and do them and not follow after your heart and after your eyes

which lead you astray.

L'ma'an tiz'k'ru va'asitem et kol mitz'votai viyitem k'doshim lei'loheikhem

In order to remember and do all My commandments, and be holy for your God.

Ani Adonai Eloheikhem

asher hotzei'ti et'khem mei'eretz Mitz'rayim lih'yot lakhhem leilohim

Ani Adonai Eloheikhem

I am the Lord, your God

who lead you from the land of Egypt to be a God to you.

I am the Lord, your God.

[WolfBitn]

No youre right One Light, no confusion neccessary

Traditionally the Shema is thought of in 2 ways.

1) If a Jew refers to the Shema as a passage of scripture, they are most likely speaking of just the verse Deut 6:4, as it is the very centerpiece of the Jewish religion and was the centerpiece of the Hebrews from Moses on.

2) what youre posting there is a prayer. The Shema ALSO refers specificy to this prayer that is recited... if i remember correctly 2 times a day, evening and morning. (I'm not jewish, but ive studied with Jews for YEARS as well as baptists, charismatics, catholics etc)

So the prayer includes everything youve copied, but the heart of judaism is Deut 6:4, and many times this passage is carried in a phylactory (sp?)

I should point out too that if youll note your passage of deut 6:4 differs from mine... yours used Adonai instead of the Tetragammon YHWH. The reason this is occasionally done is that your version would be the spoken one, while mine is the unspoken. Jews consider it a profanity to speak the Tetragammon. They do in fact write it, but if they are reading and come to the name YHWH they refuse to say it and exchange it for Adonai. So some people, when writing the Shema, assuming it will be spoken, replace YHWH with Adonai

[OneLight]

Yes, they have that posted on their site. Out of respect for their faith, I understand. Thanks for your explanation.

[WolfBitn]

Yes, they have that posted on their site. Out of respect for their faith, I understand. Thanks for your explanation.

Hey my pleasure brother

God bless you

[BlindSeeker]

I have heard this reasoning many times. However, it is virtually a hallow point. The Hebrew word "echad" (or "eh'ad," the exact same Hebrew word) is exactly like our word English word "one." Just as we can use the word "one" to define a unity, so can the word "echad" be used, but still, just as the word "one" represents numerical singularity, so does the word "echad" and it is actually the Hebrew number 1 in the masculine form (there is an alternate feminine Hebrew number 1, "ah'at.")

As a matter of fact, the Hebrew word "echad" is used more in the Bible to denote the singular than the compound unity. Yet, the reasoning above and those like it, rarely ever (if at all) present that other truth with it . . . as those who utilize the compound unity application of the word "echad" to are more interested in substantiating the Trinity than critically examining the text, or even the primary usage of the word.

The fact that "echad" is used more to denote the singular rather than a unified oneness lends much more credibility to a singular Deity being progressively revealed rather than a deified corporate head of personalities.

De 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is

1

LORD

God in is true essence is a Spirit. Being holy, God is a Holy Spirit. And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

2Co 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

Jesus Chirst was the expressed image of the invisible God, the brightness of His glory. He was this "glass" or mirror through which both the angel and man were permitted to see the worthiness of God of every creature's praise and adoration.

Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.

Nevertheless . . . .great is the mystery . . .

Ro 16:24 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.

25 Now to him that is of power to establish you according to my gospel, and

the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

27 To God only wise, be glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen.

Peace.

[WolfBitn]

Well actually Blindseeker youre absolutely right. Excuse that poorly worded point. I should have said when its used with a plural noun "ECHAD" always means "ONE" as in "Echad" roll of pennies.... or the town people with ECHAD mind. When used with a plural noun such as 'Eloheynu' it means "more then one joined as ONE"

[Guest shiloh357]

The fact that "echad" is used more to denote the singular rather than a unified oneness lends much more credibility to a singular Deity being progressively revealed rather than a deified corporate head of personalities

That is not true. We don't even apply that rationale in English. Even if the word Echad is used more in the numerical form, does not discredit its usage in the 'unity" form.

Word usage depends on the intent of the author, not how it is most popularly used in Scripture. If the intent of the author in Deut. 6:4 was to communiate "unity," it doesn't matter if the word is used 10,000 times as numerical in other parts of the Bible.

There is a big difference in how a word CAN be used, and how it is actually used in the passage. Too many linguistic arguments are made on the basis of how a word CAN be used, instead of examining an particular text to see how the author ACTUALLY uses it.

[BlindSeeker]

Well actually Blindseeker youre absolutely right. Excuse that poorly worded point. I should have said when its used with a plural noun "ECHAD" always means "ONE" as in "Echad" roll of pennies.... or the town people with ECHAD mind. When used with a plural noun such as 'Eloheynu' it means "more then one joined as ONE"

A roll of pennies is not a penny, it is a "roll" of pennies. Therefore it is appropriate to call it one roll of pennies. However the pennies is still absolutely separate and individual and they're entirety capable of existing apart from another and are distinct from the "roll" that holds them together. What is the echad, or "one" in your reference is the singular "roll" not the pennies.

When God took one of Adam's ribs to make each Eve, did God take one rib, or one rack of ribs?

Same with Numbers 13:23 where they had "a branch with one (echad) cluster of grapes," was it a single cluster or not? Grapes is defining what kind of cluster it was, but "echad" is sowing simply the quantity of cluster.

When in Genesis 22:2 God told Abraham to "get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one (echad)of the mountains" was God telling Abraham to go to a group of mountains? Or to one specific mountain amongst those in the land of Moriah?

Out of over 940 plus times echad has been translated "one" and has been translated to clearly indicate the singular "one" 901 times, 5 times as "alone" and once "only." When it is used with a plural noun it is to simply address the quantity of some things mention . . . and not necessarily to unify them; i.e., one mountain range/not two, one tribe/not two, on group of people/not two etc., etc.

Historically, the Jews have always understood their own language in the Shema to be clarifying singularity . . . not unity as witnessed in the NT -

Mark 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord

32 Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but He.

But based on what you are saying, would is be appropriate to say Jehovah is one union of gods?

If what your saying is true . . . then I am sure you can present some biblical examples to support such usage as you describe, which I would be interested in reviewing.

Peace

[WolfBitn]

Well actually Blindseeker youre absolutely right. Excuse that poorly worded point. I should have said when its used with a plural noun "ECHAD" always means "ONE" as in "Echad" roll of pennies.... or the town people with ECHAD mind. When used with a plural noun such as 'Eloheynu' it means "more then one joined as ONE"

A roll of pennies is not a penny, it is a "roll" of pennies. Therefore it is appropriate to call it one roll of pennies. However the pennies is still absolutely separate and individual and they're entirety capable of existing apart from another and are distinct from the "roll" that holds them together. What is the echad, or "one" in your reference is the singular "roll" not the pennies.

When God took one of Adam's ribs to make each Eve, did God take one rib, or one rack of ribs?

the noun is singular, so is the usage of echad in this case

Same with Numbers 13:23 where they had "a branch with one (echad) cluster of grapes," was it a single cluster or not? Grapes is defining what kind of cluster it was, but "echad" is sowing simply the quantity of cluster.

If it were clusters id see your point here bro, but its singular again as in one cluster and not clusters, whereas the pennies (plural) are echad, or united as one roll

When in Genesis 22:2 God told Abraham to "get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one (echad)of the mountains" was God telling Abraham to go to a group of mountains? Or to one specific mountain amongst those in the land of Moriah?

Again a singular noun, not plural

Historically, the Jews have always understood their own language in the Shema to be clarifying singularity . . . not unity as witnessed in the NT -

Not so for all messianic Jews

But based on what you are saying, would is be appropriate to say Jehovah is one union of gods?

If what your saying is true . . . then I am sure you can present some biblical examples to support such usage as you describe, which I would be interested in reviewing.

Peace

i believe it is certianly appropriate to refer to God in the plural being united as one Everlasting One, if God Himself dictated that He is a plurality, and He did... shouldnt we allow Him to speak for Himself? Note that you have to agree the plural for OUR GODS is actually used in this case... i prefer believing God over an interpretation that changes the meaning of the words that He actually dictated and inspired. Note in EVERY instance where the noun is plural, echad joins them as one, with no exception

Now granted some folk believe that the Father Son and Holy Spirit are not 3 individuals but only one... However this isnt at all what the scriptures seem to show us, whether its Jesus being baptized, as the Father speaks His approval "This is my beloved Son", and the Holy Spirit descending as a dove... or whether its Christ speaking of having to go so the FATHER can send His Spirit, or whether its simply the usage of Elohim and Eloheynu... PLURAL for "God"... isnt God Himself referring to Himself in the plural? If so, are we so conditioned that we fear describing Him the way He describes Himself?

I prefer describing Him as He describes Himself over what other people say we should describe Him as... wouldnt you agree this is good?