can salvation be lost?

[Jedi4Yahweh]

What does that have to do with my request. I asked for ONE biblical example of a person who voluntarily gave up his/her Christian faith. Obviously, you are having some reading comprehension issues, as I did not say anything about someone not having faith that the Bible says has faith. If you can't read, then don't respond. I am tired of you assigning things to me that I did not say. Is that clear, or do I need to type a little slower for you???

Resorting to abusive personal attacks again I see. Are you married or have kids, please tell me no?

-------

Just to respond to your request:

The best example is the prodigal son, it gives you very detailed information about losing your salvation and regaining your salvation.

We all should know that story. It was the son's choice to leave his father and the father did not force him to stay, neither did his father force him to return. It was the free will of the son who decided to leave and return. A key scripture in the story says that while the son was away from the Father, he was dead.

Luk 15:24 For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found.' And they began to celebrate.

Luk 15:32 It was fitting to celebrate and be glad, for this your brother was dead, and is alive; he was lost, and is found.'"

We know that his son was not really dead physically but spiritually and cut off from the blessing and promises while separated from his father. We also know from verse 24 that his son was alive before he left and regained his life when he returned. I would say that contradicts the OSAS doctrine.

God bless,

[Fez]

What does that have to do with my request. I asked for ONE biblical example of a person who voluntarily gave up his/her Christian faith. Obviously, you are having some reading comprehension issues, as I did not say anything about someone not having faith that the Bible says has faith. If you can't read, then don't respond. I am tired of you assigning things to me that I did not say. Is that clear, or do I need to type a little slower for you???

Resorting to abusive personal attacks again I see. Are you married or have kids, please tell me no?

-------

Just to respond to your request:

The best example is the prodigal son, it gives you very detailed information about losing your salvation and regaining your salvation.

We all should know that story. It was the son's choice to leave his father and the father did not force him to stay, neither did his father force him to return. It was the free will of the son to who decided to leave and return. A key scripture in the story says that while the son was away from the Father, he was dead.

Luk 15:24 For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found.' And they began to celebrate.

Luk 15:32 It was fitting to celebrate and be glad, for this your brother was dead, and is alive; he was lost, and is found.'"

We know that his son was not really dead physically but spiritually and cut off from the blessing and promises while separated from his father. We also know from verse 24 that his son was alive before he left and regained his life when he returned. I would say that contradicts the OSAS doctrine.

I disagree with the example. What was the father doing, he was waiting, he never cut his son off completely at all. And as for the dead part, the son had backslided yes, but returned to the family after having learned a valuable lesson, as was greeted with joy. He was accepted back into the family with joy. Does not sound to me like losing one's salvation?

Blessings

[leoxiii]

I specifcally asked for a biblical example of a person who decided they no longer wanted to be a Christian. I wanted someone to produce an example of a person who basically said, "I no longer want Christ and have decided to discard my faith."

Where in the Scriptures do you find a person going up to receive Christ at an altar call? Nowhere. Therefore altar calls are unbiblical.

Where in Scripture do you hear an Apostle tell someone "You must accept Jesus as your personal Lord and Saviour"? Nowhere. Therefore, that one is unbiblical, as well.

Of course, you will have a temper tantrum now that your own conditions must be met by yourself, but such is the way with some people.

[Jedi4Yahweh]

What does that have to do with my request. I asked for ONE biblical example of a person who voluntarily gave up his/her Christian faith. Obviously, you are having some reading comprehension issues, as I did not say anything about someone not having faith that the Bible says has faith. If you can't read, then don't respond. I am tired of you assigning things to me that I did not say. Is that clear, or do I need to type a little slower for you???

Resorting to abusive personal attacks again I see. Are you married or have kids, please tell me no?

-------

Just to respond to your request:

The best example is the prodigal son, it gives you very detailed information about losing your salvation and regaining your salvation.

We all should know that story. It was the son's choice to leave his father and the father did not force him to stay, neither did his father force him to return. It was the free will of the son to who decided to leave and return. A key scripture in the story says that while the son was away from the Father, he was dead.

Luk 15:24 For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found.' And they began to celebrate.

Luk 15:32 It was fitting to celebrate and be glad, for this your brother was dead, and is alive; he was lost, and is found.'"

We know that his son was not really dead physically but spiritually and cut off from the blessing and promises while separated from his father. We also know from verse 24 that his son was alive before he left and regained his life when he returned. I would say that contradicts the OSAS doctrine.

I disagree with the example. What was the father doing, he was waiting, he never cut his son off completely at all. And as for the dead part, the son had backslided yes, but returned to the family after having learned a valuable lesson, as was greeted with joy. He was accepted back into the family with joy. Does not sound to me like losing one's salvation?

Blessings

So what did his father mean when he said that his son was dead and now alive again?

[Fez]

What does that have to do with my request. I asked for ONE biblical example of a person who voluntarily gave up his/her Christian faith. Obviously, you are having some reading comprehension issues, as I did not say anything about someone not having faith that the Bible says has faith. If you can't read, then don't respond. I am tired of you assigning things to me that I did not say. Is that clear, or do I need to type a little slower for you???

Resorting to abusive personal attacks again I see. Are you married or have kids, please tell me no?

-------

Just to respond to your request:

The best example is the prodigal son, it gives you very detailed information about losing your salvation and regaining your salvation.

We all should know that story. It was the son's choice to leave his father and the father did not force him to stay, neither did his father force him to return. It was the free will of the son to who decided to leave and return. A key scripture in the story says that while the son was away from the Father, he was dead.

Luk 15:24 For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found.' And they began to celebrate.

Luk 15:32 It was fitting to celebrate and be glad, for this your brother was dead, and is alive; he was lost, and is found.'"

We know that his son was not really dead physically but spiritually and cut off from the blessing and promises while separated from his father. We also know from verse 24 that his son was alive before he left and regained his life when he returned. I would say that contradicts the OSAS doctrine.

I disagree with the example. What was the father doing, he was waiting, he never cut his son off completely at all. And as for the dead part, the son had backslided yes, but returned to the family after having learned a valuable lesson, as was greeted with joy. He was accepted back into the family with joy. Does not sound to me like losing one's salvation?

Blessings

So what did his father mean when he said that his son was dead and now alive again?

I love this stuff! I just went and read it again, and now I am asking myself the question? Was the son saved in the first place? Because the story starts like this:-

Luk 15:10 Just so, I tell you, there is joy before the angels of God over one sinner who repents."

Luk 15:11 And he said, "There was a man who had two sons.

Luk 15:12 And the younger of them said to his father, 'Father, give me the share of property that is coming to me.' And he divided his property between them.

Any comment?

[Jedi4Yahweh]

What does that have to do with my request. I asked for ONE biblical example of a person who voluntarily gave up his/her Christian faith. Obviously, you are having some reading comprehension issues, as I did not say anything about someone not having faith that the Bible says has faith. If you can't read, then don't respond. I am tired of you assigning things to me that I did not say. Is that clear, or do I need to type a little slower for you???

Resorting to abusive personal attacks again I see. Are you married or have kids, please tell me no?

-------

Just to respond to your request:

The best example is the prodigal son, it gives you very detailed information about losing your salvation and regaining your salvation.

We all should know that story. It was the son's choice to leave his father and the father did not force him to stay, neither did his father force him to return. It was the free will of the son to who decided to leave and return. A key scripture in the story says that while the son was away from the Father, he was dead.

Luk 15:24 For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found.' And they began to celebrate.

Luk 15:32 It was fitting to celebrate and be glad, for this your brother was dead, and is alive; he was lost, and is found.'"

We know that his son was not really dead physically but spiritually and cut off from the blessing and promises while separated from his father. We also know from verse 24 that his son was alive before he left and regained his life when he returned. I would say that contradicts the OSAS doctrine.

I disagree with the example. What was the father doing, he was waiting, he never cut his son off completely at all. And as for the dead part, the son had backslided yes, but returned to the family after having learned a valuable lesson, as was greeted with joy. He was accepted back into the family with joy. Does not sound to me like losing one's salvation?

Blessings

So what did his father mean when he said that his son was dead and now alive again?

I love this stuff! I just went and read it again, and now I am asking myself the question? Was the son saved in the first place? Because the story starts like this:-

Luk 15:10 Just so, I tell you, there is joy before the angels of God over one sinner who repents."

Luk 15:11 And he said, "There was a man who had two sons.

Luk 15:12 And the younger of them said to his father, 'Father, give me the share of property that is coming to me.' And he divided his property between them.

Well, when the the son left the grace of his father he became a sinner read ver 18.

Luk 15:18 I will arise and go to my father, and I will say to him, "Father, I have sinned against heaven and before you.

And also, It says that he was alive again. Meaning at one point when he left he died then after sin had consumed him he repented and came back to his father and life again.

Luk 15:24 For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found.' And they began to celebrate.

This clearly shows that one can chose to leave the grace of God and spiritually die but it also show that we can repent and return to love and grace of the Father and spiritually live again.

[leoxiii]

"Father, give me my inheritance." And he went and squandered his inheritance.

What inheritance does a Christian have?

How can a Christian squander that inheritance?

[Smalcald]

Intentional actions with thought and planning, are indeed intentional and can be giving up the faith.

So if someone like Simon, who scripture said had faith, then later intentionally acted against that faith, and was told you have no part of salvation, how could that NOT be walking away?

The point of the thread is could someone have faith then later abandon that faith, we have a very good example in Simon.

What does it mean to receive the Word with Gladness? The parable of the Sower is so direct on this issue.

The example asked for was given, it is Simon who intentionally decided to walk away from Christ. Unless people are claiming that Christ walked away from Simon? Is that possible, because those are the two choices you have with Simon.

Take another example from the other point of view; of an Apostle who persevered to the end, Peter. Was Peter always saved? Did he have a "decision" point and then a non-Decision point? No what we see in Peter is a very realistic example of faith, of growing into faith of becoming strengthened in that faith to finally complete the race. The Holy Spirit was working on and through Peter from his conception on. The Holy Spirit was working on and through John The Baptist from his conception on. Neither one of these men ever made a one time "decision" for Christ, John the Baptist jumped in the womb when he sensed the baby Jesus in the room with him, he had faith from conception forward.

The problem with decision theology is that it leads to all of these unbiblical ideas including the one that you can never walk away from having faith.. after your decision you can't lose faith.. you can only make the decision after an age of accountability...children cannot have faith as they have not made a decision...if you had faith from childhood and have never NOT had faith in Christ you really don't have faith because you didn't make a "decision" at some point in time after some specific age and on and on. The doctrine starts with the moment in time decision idea, then flows into all of these other areas.

Faith is a lifelong journey, not ticket you buy once to get into heaven.

[EricH]

I specifcally asked for a biblical example of a person who decided they no longer wanted to be a Christian. I wanted someone to produce an example of a person who basically said, "I no longer want Christ and have decided to discard my faith."

Where in the Scriptures do you find a person going up to receive Christ at an altar call? Nowhere. Therefore altar calls are unbiblical.

For something to be unbiblical it would need to be forbidden by scripture. Altar calls are not unbibical. The practice is not metioned by scripture, so it would be considered abiblical (not forbidden or condoned). Many things we do are abiblical (like having bathrooms in our churches, passing offering plates etc).

[kross]

Yes, you have made this very clear that this is how you believe. I am not of the same belief. I do not see anywhere in scripture where free will is removed when one accepts Christ. Your admission that there could never see why anyone would ever think of changing their mind is the basics of your belief. Even though I have to agree that I, in my walk, could ever think of a reason why I would turn from Christ, I am not so arrogant to assume that I never will. I have to keep Him first and foremost in my life and not replace myself on the throne of my heart. That is something we all have to do in every decision we make, is it not?

Allow me to ask you this. If salvation was always ensured to a believer, why would Paul write to the Philippians telling them that they are to work out their salvation with fear and trembling? If what you say is true, there would be no cause to fear nor tremble, but to just realize that they are humans and will make mistakes. There has to be a reason why this phrase is spoken of more then once in scripture.

What you call to "arrogant to assume i never will" I call trusting JESUS enough to know HE will never allow it. I put my faith and trust in JEUS, not in myself. I do not feel you can trust JESUS too much. Some think you can.

The same reason he told the Corinthians to make their "Calling and election sure". Becasue the fear of GOD is the beginning, becasue not working out your salvation with fear and trembling might lead one to think they are saved when they are not.

Why does Paul state we are sealed with the HOLY SPIRIT until the day of redemption? Why does Paul state that the ones who are THe Called are the ones who were predestined to it? And then say they were also justified and glorified? And then state that nothing can separate them from the love of GOD that they have in CHRIST JESUS?

As you know, we can toss scriptures back and forth and neaither one of us will believe the other plus this thread was not established to be a WHO CHOSE WHO debate. (although that is fundamental as to whether the one doing the choosing can or will unchoose)

And, just for the record, I am more of the belief that the will is not free until GOD sets it free. "Those whom the SON sets free are free indeed" The very principle of which is that a person is a captive that needs to be set free in the first place. So, I do not believe one looses "Free Will" at salvation. I believe one gains it.