Smalcald Posted October 14, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5,258 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 42 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/16/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/22/1960 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Okay fair enough. But you know the guy did regularly receive communion, then went back to the House and voted for funding abortion. I think the Catholic Church plays games with its own doctrine frankly, which is my biggest problem with the Church, not its doctrines per-se, how serious is it really about what it claims to believe? I mean the majority of lay Catholics in the US self identify themselves as pro-choice, how could that be? Being a living member of the Catholic Church means being obedient to all the teachings of the Magisterium. A Catholic who uses artificial birth control, or who publicly supports abortion, is a Catholic in mortal sin: what we call a "dead member of the Church". Even though they sin, they still remain in Christ, but are in grave danger of being pruned from the Vine. Okay thanks I understand that. As I understand it a person, Catholic or not; who has committed mortal sin, for example had an abortion or helped someone get an abortion or funded abortion, would if they die go to hell if they do not fully repent, is that correct? Do you think the Catholic Church is too large? I have some Catholic friends who have voiced that opinion that the Church should be more devout and cull out the in name only Catholics? For me I do disagree with the basic issues surrounding faith and works between your church and mine, but what I would really like to see is Catholics be better Catholics, this would help the Christian world in my opinion. Thanks for you input leo and beka. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishcowboy Posted October 14, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 127 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 3,248 Content Per Day: 0.87 Reputation: 13 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/23/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted October 14, 2009 my biological father was excommunicated from the church.... why? divorce..... until he had it "annulled" he was no longer a member, when the annulment went through (denouncing he even had children by my mother) then he was accepted back in.... at this point, I became a person that is with out a father or a person that does not know his father.... a bastard..... that is also when the child support stopped for us kids...... is that what the "church" is all about? a play on words, divorce is a sin, but annulment is not..... having children then denying that you have them.... ( a lie ) living a lie? is that what the Bible says that we need to do to gain entrance into the Kingdom of Heaven? NO!, infact, just the opposite, a liar will not share in the Kingdom.... what is the difference between a marriage that ends in Divorce and one that ends by Annulment? mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
humbleseeker Posted October 14, 2009 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 519 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/11/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/28/1980 Share Posted October 14, 2009 I agree. Paul wrote too deny your family is worse then someone who denies the faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leoxiii Posted October 14, 2009 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 512 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/30/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/25/1955 Share Posted October 14, 2009 does that mean that only Roman Catholics are the only true Christians? The Church teaches that all those who have received a valid Baptism are Christians.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lekh l'kha Posted October 14, 2009 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 830 Content Per Day: 0.15 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/14/2009 Status: Offline Share Posted October 14, 2009 ... Catholics believe that we have to pay just a fraction of the cost for the "pre-ordering" and a fraction of the cost when we get to the "counter". I can't place an exact value on that fraction but it's probably less then 1% I don't know. Beka, if you had ordered an omelet in a restaurant and the waiter brings it to you and says, "the chef said I should tell ya that the first egg he cracked open and poured into the mixture was rotten and stinking, but you don't have to worry because I added another four good eggs, so it'll be alright." Would you eat that omelet? "But we are all as an unclean thing, and ALL our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away." (Isa 64:6) Those words "filthy rags" in the original Hebrew refer to menstrual cloths!! If that's how God sees our righteousness (because it's stained with our sin), how do think God would react when you want to add your "righteousness" to the very, very high price that god paid for your salvation? God paid a very, very high price for our salvation, and for us to think we should or even to think that we can add any of our own righteousness to it, is a gross insult to God, don't you think? Protestants don't hate Roman Catholics. Most of us know too many Roman Catholics (and a lot of them are very nice people). What we hate is a lie that puts itself up as the truth in the name of Jesus: "And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." (Joh 8:32). What the Roman Catholic doctrine that you yourself have described in your posts does, is it brings people into bondage and calls this bondage "liberty". No Protestant ever said that anyone can go on sinning after he has been saved, as though the sacrifice of Jesus is a license to sin. That's perhaps Roman Catholic anti-Protestant propaganda, but it's certainly not true: "What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life." (Rom 6:1-4) Most of us Protestants don't even dislike Roman Catholics. But we know that the word Vicar is derived from then word "vicarious" which means "instead of" or "a substitute for". Jesus died vicariously in our place, and the only One He said He would send into the world in His stead, is God the Holy Spirit. God the Holy Spirit is the Vicar of Christ (the only vicar of Christ), and He is the only One who deserves the title "Holy Father". The titles of the Pope are extremely blasphemous, and so are his claims to all authority over "religious" or spiritual matters, doctrine etc. "And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." (Joh 8:32). "Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come." (Joh 16:13) "And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven." (Mat 23:9) Over the centuries, the institution we know as the Roman Catholic Church has built one false doctrine upon another, and added one false precept to another. It is a spiritually adulterous institution. Not that she's the only harlot - because the woman standing on the corner under the lamp-post bearing a t-shirt with the words "harlot" isn't the only one these days - there are quite a few others strolling up and down the sidewalks wearing the same t-shirt, and some of them you will often find selling their wears on the bookshelves of certain Christian bookstores. No Protestant hates or even dislikes Roman Catholics. I know quite a few Roman Catholics and I like them very much, because the ones I know are all very nice people. I just hate the lie that puts itself up as the truth in the name of Christ like a wolf in sheep's clothing - no matter which quarter it comes from - whether it be the harlot woman at the corner, or the others strolling up and down the sidewalks and sitting on the bookshelves in Christian bookstores. But I don't hate those who are deceived by any of the harlots just because I can see through the deceptions of the doctrines they are taught. It grieves my spirit that there have been so many lies spread in the name of Christ since the apostles died (actually, the lies started even before the apostles died, and the apostles fought against them). The Roman church itself fought against heresy, while all the time introducing its own heresy and lies, for the sake of power and political and/or financial gain. The thing about most of the Protestants who come to forums like Worthy is, they give their allegiance to Christ alone and not to ANY church. So if I attack anything their "Bishop" teaches, they won't get mad at me, because I'm not attacking Jesus - I'm attacking the false doctrines of someone's pastor/minister/bishop, whatever. If you're a Christian, it wouldn't upset you if someone attacks the doctrines of "the Church", because "the Church" is not Jesus - "the Church" is made up of fallible human beings with fallible minds. If you're a Christian, you will only become upset if someone attacks Jesus or the Bible, because you would have given your allegiance to Christ alone, and not to any man. But then you would be a Protestant, since you won't be giving your allegiance to "the Church" - only to Jesus. lekh lekha ("get thee out") Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leoxiii Posted October 14, 2009 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 512 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/30/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/25/1955 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Grace to you, valid Baptism Define valid Baptism. Also please explain what it is that a Catholic is actually Baptised into. Peace, Dave Matthew 28:19 Going therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Romans 6:3 Know you not that all we, who are baptized in Christ Jesus, are baptized in his death? 4 For we are buried together with him by baptism into death; that as Christ is risen from the dead by the glory of the Father, so we also may walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection. 6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin may be destroyed, to the end that we may serve sin no longer. 7 For he that is dead is justified from sin. 8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall live also together with Christ: 9 Knowing that Christ rising again from the dead, dieth now no more, death shall no more have dominion over him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
humbleseeker Posted October 14, 2009 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 519 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/11/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/28/1980 Share Posted October 14, 2009 The Catholic church is no athourity, only the Bible is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leoxiii Posted October 14, 2009 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 512 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/30/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/25/1955 Share Posted October 14, 2009 to rule the world and burn people at the stakes Do you want to know what the Church teaches, or do you want to just throw mud around? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leoxiii Posted October 14, 2009 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 512 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/30/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/25/1955 Share Posted October 14, 2009 my biological father was excommunicated from the church.... why? divorce..... until he had it "annulled" he was no longer a member, when the annulment went through (denouncing he even had children by my mother) then he was accepted back in.... at this point, I became a person that is with out a father or a person that does not know his father.... a bastard..... that is also when the child support stopped for us kids...... is that what the "church" is all about? a play on words, divorce is a sin, but annulment is not..... having children then denying that you have them.... ( a lie ) living a lie? is that what the Bible says that we need to do to gain entrance into the Kingdom of Heaven? NO!, infact, just the opposite, a liar will not share in the Kingdom.... what is the difference between a marriage that ends in Divorce and one that ends by Annulment? mike Annulment: Recognition that there was an impediment in conferring the Sacrament of Marriage so that no valid Marriage was ever covenanted. The Church recognizes the children of such a union. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
humbleseeker Posted October 14, 2009 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 519 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/11/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/28/1980 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Do you even know the history of your own church? or the some of the things the Pope who's name you take wrote. If I am throwing mud then its just because there is alot of it that surrounds the catholic church. have I been wrong about anything I said? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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