Rapture

[Guest shadow2b]

You have bought into a fairy tale, but all you have to do is read what the scriptures have to say and let the Holy Spirit do the leading. Start with Matthew 24.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

Eph writes...

Ernie's back with the "doom and gloom" Gosple he's slingin..!

LOL

[Guest shadow2b]

I am a bit puzzled here by the post-trib position, and hopefully some of you can enlighten me.

[whatsitmean]

Hi RCruise, It seems you found the

[RCruise]

Hi whatsitmean:

Wow are you fast on the draw!     Actually, I accidentally hit the "Add Reply" instead of the "Preview" on that post when I posted it.  I immediately found it, proof read it and, realized some of my humorous wording could be mis-construed.  So, I immediately edited it, then updated the post.  It maybe took somewhere between 5-7 minutes.  Anyway, what you saw was some sarcastic jest which when I read it, needed some changes before going on.

Now in all honesty, These events described have been going on in large scale since Christ.  The one on the black horse (appears after the second seal is opened), was given the ability to "take peace from the earth" and was given a "great sword".  What I found interesting though, is that the one on the "red horse" is given a "set of balances" to weigh the worth of values of goods.  The words "a measure" simply represent a common measuring amount that Strong's suggests is "uncertain" as to it's actual representation today.  But, all one has to do is understand the 1600's English usage to get the idea.  It actually means the equivalent to a "wine quart" or liquid quart plus one twelfth of a quart (a "bakers dozen" of sorts of 1/12's or 13/12's quarts).  A "penny" is translated from "denarion" which amazingly was the worth of about 10 asses/donkeys during the time of John.

This has to then be taken into context that one would have had to pay about 100 to 150 times that "measure" for a donkey in Jesus' time.  But, how long has bread (a loaf represents about a "measure") been over $1.00?  Did you know that for centuries up until the early 1900's, a loaf or measure was worth a "penny"?  It began to rise steadily in the 1900's outpacing itself ever in history.  Same is true for all products and foods.

All in all, there is no specific time or time allotment/limits to the seals and the four horsemen.  I honestly believe that when this earth entered the 1900's, many prophesies of the end times correlated to the "opening of the seals" began and have been increasing with fervor.  Therefore, if we come to see the four horsemen in light of "spirits", we can easily see that they have been at work for some time at least within the last 100 years.  No, the antichrist will not be the "white horseman" rather, he will have a semblance of virtuous and peaceful man.  And, his apearance/revealing is scheduled after these four horsemen have been already long into their work.

God Bless.

[Guest shadow2b]

I suppose I'm going back over a past thread, I really dont know, but here goes anyway.

It seems to be the assumption of most christians, that the two witnesses will be Moses and Elijah, probably because they were the two that were seen on the mount of transfiguration when the disciples went up with the Lord. At this stage I am not saying whether I think they are or are not the two witnesses mentioned later.

What I am suggesting that Enoch will be the second witness

[Snowdoove]

Pray for the Peace of Jerusalem!

re: Rapture

When is the Feast of First Fruits this Year 2003

According to Brother Sal of chn@chn-net.com., The Spring Freasts begin on the 15th of Nissan with Passover, which is April 16/17th.

He states that one must understand that the feast of First Fruits is not celebrated on the same day as it was during Jesus time.

It was changed to the first day after the first day of Passover.

Brother Sal believes in the Rapture and has figured out when it could occur if G-D chooses this date.

Recap:

Passover April 16/17th

First Fruits April 19/20th

RAPTURE May 28/29

Pentecost June 7/8

Brother Sal states that this YEAR is one of those years when it works out on the same days as in the time of Jesus.

DOESN'T it all Mean something?

[martyr]

Well, I have done some studying of the end times.  Granted, not 24/7, but I find more Scriptural evidence pointing towards a pre trib rapture than any other.  If you take the endtimes prophecy in context, then I don't see any way that pre trib belief is blown out of the water.

[Guest TwoBombs]

The problem with the pre-trib rapture-theory is that it "fails" if antichrist already would be on the scene, and we just wouldn't know it.

- The problem with a fix on just one rapture could bring people into problems as there are several raptures before Christ touches the earth with His feet on mount olive. The Rapture alone is comprised of 2 seperate rapture-event.

- The problem with the explicit split of the Jewish people and the Church brings the problem that there are today already spirit-filled Jews....

> The solution to these problems is a clear roadmap and an identification of the antichrist; this guy doesn;t come out of thin air, you know.... I believe I have a very good, yet for some plain shocking candidate

Dan 11:21  And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom [miami votings]

Dan 11:36  And the king shall do according to his will;  [ war on terror ]

Dan 7:8  I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots [ bush overruling 3 members of the UN council ]

Dan 11:40  [...] and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over.  [ again war on terror; afghanistan, iraq > almost 300.000 troops now]

Dan 11:41  He shall enter also into the glorious land, and many [countries] shall be overthrown: [ Both Bush & Powell talked about Israel being next in line]

Dan 11:45  And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain;  [ Armies in Israel ]

Furthermore :

Rev 13:3  And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; [...]  [ 9-11 attack ]

Rev 13:4  [...] and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who [is] like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? [who is able to make war with G.W. Bush ?]

Rev 13:18  Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number [is] Six hundred threescore [and] six.  

And yes, George Walter Bush spells 3x666 [ http://www.geocities.com/trebor_92627/Bush.htm ] but i'm not into those numbers.

I have invested some time in the patriot act II (of which i have pdf file) and I actively follow the development of the new US laws that are changing the political landscape in the US. ( as they will eventually be carbon-copied into the EU )

I think I see a pattern here, and time will tell if this is the one. I use various resources to find out what the coming months and seasons might bring, and both the primary sources (bible OT/NT & Apocrypha) and the secondary sources ( constellations, Nostradamus Quatrains )  have started to give off a similar synchronous signal that eventually will lead to the second coming of Christ.

Until today I have only found some pseudepigraph-scriptures that shed some light into the personal situation of the people in Israel in the period during and right after the babylonian war. Apparently it will not be safe to walk into the field as there seems to be an invisible killer around. The city however seems relatively safe to dwell in.

I deduced that some chemical rockets will plunge into the fields of Israel, and that the US will want to protect Israel from the ongoing terrorist attacks that have intensified because of the attack on Iraq.

I am under the impression that this situation almost certainly will result into some sort of treaty, if not the famous 7 year treaty. The start of that period has been estimated by me; obviously as the beginning of the 70th week of Daniel. (which took me several 1000's of hours of study to find;  but please understand, I do not pretend to know anything.... )

I have added it as the default footer in all of my posts.

The difference with the previous signals is what a lot of people describe as: " it might be sooner upon us then we all think "

Consider the implications when this would be true : A lot of pre-trib/antichrist rapture believers might need to reset their ideology and timetable as the Rapture hasn't occured until today.

The EU is old, the Middle East is ancient; it's the US  thats young and new. In my opinion the US president soon will speak the words that are written in Daniel and Revelation.

Dan 7:24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom [are] ten kings [that] shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

The young lion, the small horn; it seems the US is the youngest among nations doing the things they do right now; no up-and-coming EU president in his right mind would wage a war against the arab world, as there are millions and millions arab people in the EU ! And: why would a European president again invade countries that just recently were invaded by the US ?

I do know for sure that GW is pushing the prophecied biblical events much faster and much closer now, something I am not bothered with actually; my Lord cometh sooner  

[Matthitjah]

To all Saints concerned,

We are seeing a see change in the way the World operates.

We the U.S. for the first time ever are striking out throwing the first punch as it were. This scares the rest of the world and rightly so. We are the Worlds first hyper Power.

In one fell swoop ,about to happen ,we are gonna demonstrate to the whole World. The demonstrative power we have.

This War in my mind is gonna usher in the new World order of the end times. We are about to make the U.N. irrelevant. Something or someone is gonna have to step in and create something new to deal with crises in the World.

There are several candidates already set up

1. a revamped U.N.

2. The U.S. everybodys favorite Uncle

3. The E.U.

4. NATO

5. A new league like the old one (League of Nations, U.N.) only with, in the words of President Bush, "The will and determination to act."

So as we see we are moving quickly and have been in the last few years to some kind of Global governing body.

I think even now we are under Tribulation just not Great Tribulation. Yet here we Saints are right in the middle of it. Here we will remain I believe just like other past times of Tribulation in the world. We have a job to do. We are to witness to the World. We are sealed of the Holy Spirit. We hold the testimony of the Truth dear . The very Word of G-d.

We and the Word Witness and testify of Jesus Christ. We will remain until the last trump when we are called up . The Holy Spirit remains, The Word remains, Saints remain. Yes some of us may be Martyred yet we do not lose the promise of the ressurection of the just. We will do great things when Great Tribulation starts just by our testimony and our courageous acts of Faith. We even now do great things. I was on Chat the other night and someone was saying during their outreach at their church many teens were called out and saved. Amen!

How much more great things will we do when we have nothing but Faith to rely on? When  we have nothing but G-ds tender mercy to rely on and we put full Faith in the promise of our sovereign Lord. It's nice now living in America. We have every luxery. We like to believe we rely on the Lord. Take all that stuff away and see how comfortable you are in your Faith.

This is the chief reason we like to believe the doctrine of pre trib. It's easy. Oh, the great works the apostles performed when they were pushed to the brink and had only the Lord and his good Word. Yes my friends we will be refined.  

G-d Bless You All.

Peace :il: Amen

[martyr]

I don't believe in the pre trib because it's easy, rather, I believe that there is more Biblical evidence supporting pre trib rapture than the other.  Whether I am right or wrong, I am a Christian, and I will spend eternity with God.

As for implying or stating that George Bush could be the antichrist, one must remember that George Bush claims to be a Christian.  We are not to judge whether he is or not.  We are to look at fruits, or the lack of, and try and help him grow.  

As for the U.S. being everyone's favorite uncle, I believe that the U.S. is hated by more people than any other country.  I moved to canada from the wonderful country of the U.S.A., and it seems to be a small majority of people that think that Bush is a dictator equal with Hitler.