leoxiii Posted November 15, 2009 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 512 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/30/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/25/1955 Share Posted November 15, 2009 Christians have always accepted sprinkling. I would like to know when sprinkling became acceptable to the Roman Catholics, and some other closely related denomination? I did a little research and found that one of the Roman Catholic Saints did not agree with sprinkling, but full immersion. Hippolytus' account of the baptismal service When the person being baptized goes down into the water, he who baptizes him, putting his hand on him, shall say: "Do you believe in God, the Father Almighty?" And the person being baptized shall say: "I believe." Then holding his hand on his head, he shall baptize him once. And then he shall say: "Do you believe in Christ Jesus, the Son of God, who was born of the Virgin Mary, and was crucified under Pontius Pilate, and was dead and buried, and rose again the third day, alive from the dead, and ascended into heaven, and sat at the right hand of the Father, and will come to judge the living and the dead?" And when he says: "I believe," he is baptized again. And again he shall say: "Do you believe in the Holy Spirit, in the holy church, and the resurrection of the body?" The person being baptized shall say: "I believe," and then he is baptized a third time. -- Hippolytus, early third century I cannot find that particular quote anywhere in the writings of Saint Hippolytus. Could you please provide which writing of his it is taken from? The Apostolic Tradition of Hippolytus 21:12-18 I found a commentary on it. It is taken from a Baptismal Liturgy (a Mass of Baptismads), and is only attributed to Hippolytus. It seems to be a composite of several writings from divers regions. Nonetheless, it holds the basic outline of Christian Baptism: rejection of the devil and being accepted intot eh family of God. But, as to when the Roman Church accepted sprinkling, it was from the very beginning. Sprinkling is mentioned in the Didache, a writing from the 1st century attributed to the Apostles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted November 15, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.22 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted November 15, 2009 Christians have always accepted sprinkling. I would like to know when sprinkling became acceptable to the Roman Catholics, and some other closely related denomination? I did a little research and found that one of the Roman Catholic Saints did not agree with sprinkling, but full immersion. Hippolytus' account of the baptismal service When the person being baptized goes down into the water, he who baptizes him, putting his hand on him, shall say: "Do you believe in God, the Father Almighty?" And the person being baptized shall say: "I believe." Then holding his hand on his head, he shall baptize him once. And then he shall say: "Do you believe in Christ Jesus, the Son of God, who was born of the Virgin Mary, and was crucified under Pontius Pilate, and was dead and buried, and rose again the third day, alive from the dead, and ascended into heaven, and sat at the right hand of the Father, and will come to judge the living and the dead?" And when he says: "I believe," he is baptized again. And again he shall say: "Do you believe in the Holy Spirit, in the holy church, and the resurrection of the body?" The person being baptized shall say: "I believe," and then he is baptized a third time. -- Hippolytus, early third century I cannot find that particular quote anywhere in the writings of Saint Hippolytus. Could you please provide which writing of his it is taken from? The Apostolic Tradition of Hippolytus 21:12-18 I found a commentary on it. It is taken from a Baptismal Liturgy (a Mass of Baptismads), and is only attributed to Hippolytus. It seems to be a composite of several writings from divers regions. Nonetheless, it holds the basic outline of Christian Baptism: rejection of the devil and being accepted intot eh family of God. But, as to when the Roman Church accepted sprinkling, it was from the very beginning. Sprinkling is mentioned in the Didache, a writing from the 1st century attributed to the Apostles. The Didache is not scripture and only proves that you follow your church doctrine above scripture. There is nowhere in scripture that shows that sprinkling or infant baptism is correct. I edited this post to include another unorthodox practice, which you mentioned part of. They all had to undergo a form of exorcism by denouncing Satan and be anointed with the Oil of Exorcism. IF they have already accepted Jesus as their Savior, and His Spirit dwells in them, why is it that they feel tell every evil spirit to leave them when light and darkness cannot live in the same vessel? Here are the words. 21 At the hour in which the cock crows, they shall first pray over the water. 2When they come to the water, the water shall be pure and flowing, that is, the water of a spring or a flowing body of water. 3Then they shall take off all their clothes. 4The children shall be baptized first. All of the children who can answer for themselves, let them answer. If there are any children who cannot answer for themselves, let their parents answer for them, or someone else from their family. 5After this, the men will be baptized. Finally, the women, after they have unbound their hair, and removed their jewelry. No one shall take any foreign object with themselves down into the water. 6At the time determined for baptism, the bishop shall give thanks over some oil, which he puts in a vessel. It is called the Oil of Thanksgiving. 7He shall take some more oil and exorcise it. It is called the Oil of Exorcism. 8A deacon shall hold the Oil of Exorcism and stand on the left. Another deacon shall hold the Oil of Thanksgiving and stand on the right. 9When the elder takes hold of each of them who are to receive baptism, he shall tell each of them to renounce, saying, "I renounce you Satan, all your servicea, and all your works." 10After he has said this, he shall anoint each with the Oil of Exorcism, saying, "Let every evil spirit depart from you." 11Then, after these things, the bishop passes each of them on nude to the elder who stands at the water. They shall stand in the water naked. A deacon, likewise, will go down with them into the water. 12When each of them to be baptized has gone down into the water, the one baptizing shall lay hands on each of them, asking, "Do you believe in God the Father Almighty?" 13And the one being baptized shall answer, "I believe." 14He shall then baptize each of them once, laying his hand upon each of their heads. 15Then he shall ask, "Do you believe in Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who was born of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary, who was crucified under Pontius Pilate, and died, and rose on the third day living from the dead, and ascended into heaven, and sat down at the right hand of the Father, the one coming to judge the living and the dead?" 16When each has answered, "I believe," he shall baptize a second time. 17Then he shall ask, "Do you believe in the Holy Spirit and the Holy Church and the resurrection of the flesh?" 18Then each being baptized shall answer, "I believe." And thus let him baptize the third time. 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leoxiii Posted November 16, 2009 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 512 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/30/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/25/1955 Share Posted November 16, 2009 light and darkness cannot live in the same vessel So whenever someone sins (falls into darkness) God leaves them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted November 16, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.22 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted November 16, 2009 light and darkness cannot live in the same vessel So whenever someone sins (falls into darkness) God leaves them? Are you implying that a person who is saved never sins? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leoxiii Posted November 16, 2009 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 512 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/30/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/25/1955 Share Posted November 16, 2009 light and darkness cannot live in the same vessel So whenever someone sins (falls into darkness) God leaves them? Are you implying that a person who is saved never sins? On the contrary, that is why your look into the history of Baptism shows the priest performing a rite of exorcism on the Baptizmad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leoxiii Posted November 16, 2009 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 512 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/30/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/25/1955 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Baptism is not required for salvation, accepting Jesus as Lord and saviour is. Go on, Just ask Him.. In His LOve Okay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted November 16, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.22 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted November 16, 2009 light and darkness cannot live in the same vessel So whenever someone sins (falls into darkness) God leaves them? Are you implying that a person who is saved never sins? On the contrary, that is why your look into the history of Baptism shows the priest performing a rite of exorcism on the Baptizmad. When a person accepts Jesus as their savior, they are cleaned by His blood. His Spirit then resides in them. There is no need to Exorcism rites to be given to a saved person. Demons can not live where the Holy Spirit lives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted November 16, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.22 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted November 16, 2009 Baptism is not required for salvation, accepting Jesus as Lord and saviour is. Go on, Just ask Him.. In His LOve Okay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elizabetht Posted November 16, 2009 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 399 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/18/2008 Status: Offline Share Posted November 16, 2009 Baptism is not a salvation issue but a doctrinal issue. Yes, it is good that the believer be baptised as our Lord was. It is the outward expression of a new life in Christ. However, it is not required for salvation. Remember the thief on the Cross next to Christ? He simply asked Jesus to remember him when He came into His Kingdom. Jesus responded to him by saying; "today, you will be with me in paradise." There was no baptism. The thief offered his faith, and that was the acceptable thing. All believers should be baptised......but it is not a pre requisite to salvation. Blessings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 The thief on the cross remains a moot point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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