THE PROPHETIC MOVEMENT FAILING GOD??

[jamie]

And what are you trying to say to me?

[John3;16]

What I am trying to convey, is that the Lord set up the structure of leadership in the church (body of believers), in fact he says that these are gifts, and if you undermine that structure you are undermining the Lord, who is the head of the body,

Ephesians|4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some,

prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and

teachers;

Ephesians|4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the

work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

Ephesians|4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith,

and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man,

unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

The Apostles which also became pastors and evangelist set the pattern for the church, which performed different functions, but preaching the word of God was there primary function. They appointed trustworthy mature believers to perform tasks such as caring for widows, or tasks that would detract the Apostles from preaching.

Acts|6:1 And in those days, when the number of the

disciples was multiplied, there arose a murmuring of the

Grecians against the Hebrews, because their widows were

neglected in the daily ministration.

Acts|6:2 Then the twelve called the multitude of the

disciples

[jamie]

Oh I agree with everything you have posted here 100 percent.

I do not believe that todays church system is structured this way though.

He gave each person a certain function in the body.

I only see one main function in todays body, that being "Pastor".

The pastor pretty much tells others what their functions are if they are lucky enough to have one.

I believe the gifts are relavant for today if they are used in accordance with biblical instruction.

I repeat I do not know of any churches that do any more than....have morning anouncements, sing a few songs, take up the offering, hear a sermon, dismiss the congregation.

They might have a few side programs that do good works.

If the church was really what it was meant to be the world wouldn't be telling on it.

PS I know that there are probably a few good ones out ther but this is my overall analysis. The majority fit my discription.

[Willow]

I find that here there are more than one topic colliding.

Yes I think the modern day Prophetic system is failing God. And it takes so much time now to observe in many situations the validity of whether or not someone is a prophet, by then they have already been elevated to that status and soon nobody is questioning it. I have a friend who says God has called her to be a prophet. I personally think that she isn't. Did they not stone a prophet in the bible when they were wrong? Not that we should be doing that now, however, she has been wrong on many occasions. I think there is a huge difference between a gift of prophecy and being a prophet.

I think a Pastor should be paid enough to make a living Pastoring. I think it's important for him to be able to devote his time to the needs of the church full time.

Instead it for the most part has only a "pastor" and his little helpers.

I wonder where this model started. Really. When he was with the multitudes and the 5000 - he didn't get to interact with them one on one. Cause when Jesus was here he didn't train one man to help him in ministry and spreading the gospel, he trained 12. Somewhere the 'church' screwed up and decided one pastor could do it all. My church is rapidly approaching 4000 people in it. Like my pastor can make that many house calls, get involved in the community, take care of his family and still have personal time with God.

I guess I am blessed far more than I realize working and attending a church like mine. I work in the finance office. I see things all the time. I see how my boss reacts to a large donation and a small. He even caught someone wording something like - Major givers, other donations, etc....and he said he wanted those titles to be removed so that the person giving $10 wouldn't feel like they were less of a giver then someone who is able to give $20,000. That to me speaks highly of his wisdom and integrity as a person in charge of our money.

[Guest shadow2b]

-QUOTE (jamie @ Jul 26 2004, 10:17 PM)

God gave one of the most key mandates to the modern Prophetic movement when He said: "I am going to change the understanding and expression of Christianity IN THE EARTH in one generation." 

Jamie,

I could not find this anywhere in the Word of God.

DANGER!! DANGER!! DANGER!!

-ahhhhhhhhhh---HAAAAAAA--There YOU are Stevie---WHere ya been Bro.??

-never-the-less----THAT is Exactly Right Bro.---This is where SO many GO wrong---

They "Read-Something"outside of the Scriptures & wanna follow up on that irrevalent material instead of simply staying with the WORD-OF-GOD- :suspect:

-WHY do ya Reckon that is Steve??---DO ya think this & other little-questionable statements could possibly be the Beginning of THE {STRONG-DELUSION??}GOD WILL SEND to those that had rather "Believe"THE LIE??

-I'm Like you Bro.IF it ain't in the "Scriptures"I don't mess with it---far--TOO-many are bringing strange--odd-weird-UNGODLY--doctrines to these boards lately..

Have you noticed that Bro.??-BLESSINGS TO YA STEVE-- :hug: :hug:

[AnotherTraveler]

IS THE PROPHETIC MOVEMENT FAILING GOD??

This question misses the basic problem, but does address the result of the problem.

Christianity flowed out from a tribal/family culture, where elder meant someone older and experienced, where daily signs and wonders answered the question of who was sent of God and who was not, where apostles moving in the Spirit might exercise the immediate death sentance (Acts 5), or blindness (Acts 13:11), and where a good rebuke put the fear of God into the rebellious(Acts8:23), and the Angel of the Lord would send preachers without a committee, and without reason being required the preacher just obeyed and went.

(Acts 8:23 KJV) For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity.

(Acts 8:24 KJV) Then answered Simon, and said, Pray ye to the Lord for me, that none of these things which ye have spoken come upon me.

(Acts 8:25 KJV) And they, when they had testified and preached the word of the Lord, returned to Jerusalem, and preached the gospel in many villages of the Samaritans.

(Acts 8:26 KJV) And the angel of the Lord spake unto Philip, saying, Arise, and go toward the south unto the way that goeth down from Jerusalem unto Gaza, which is desert.

This living family of God (the church) has been ill served by placing a business governing model over the church, and establishing experts, organizations, universities, buildings, committees, licensings, educations, titles, financings, denominations, nondenominations, and doctrines with no regard to what God wants, or even what God is doing.

Babylon is such a great mystery because it has thousands of faces, forms, doctrines, and methods, but one thing is always present in Babylon, there is always in her some way that the bible speaks directly against. The prophetic movement is like so many efforts that we have made to bring life into the dead structure and system of Babylon, it can't work, because the Word of God already addressed this issue years ago.

(Jer 51:6 KJV) Flee out of the midst of Babylon, and deliver every man his soul: be not cut off in her iniquity; for this is the time of the LORD'S vengeance; he will render unto her a recompense.

(Jer 51:7 KJV) Babylon hath been a golden cup in the LORD'S hand, that made all the earth drunken: the nations have drunken of her wine; therefore the nations are mad.

(Jer 51:8 KJV) Babylon is suddenly fallen and destroyed: howl for her; take balm for her pain, if so be she may be healed.

(Jer 51:9 KJV) We would have healed Babylon, but she is not healed: forsake her, and let us go every one into his own country: for her judgment reacheth unto heaven, and is lifted up even to the skies.

We all that have had roots in dead religion tried to heal her, we howled, we fasted, we prayed, we begged, but when we are done, the still small voice of the Lord asks us what we are doing there? Why are we where the Lord is not in so many of the things that occur?

The Lord has thousands today, as in that day, that are unbowed to idols, and have not kissed the image, but they are scattered and hidden until the Lord makes the way for them.

Also, when a prophet moves as God intended, the room is made by the Spirit of God, and anyone standing in the way of God's working is asking for a supernatural manifestation that they will not like. God never has been, nor will He ever be a respecter of persons.

The fear of the Lord is almost absent from us, and the first great restoration that we need is the fear of the Lord, then wisdom will begin in us again, and we will become ready with a serious effort and a glad heart for the Lord to come to us.

[Guest yod]

elder meant someone older and experienced, where daily signs and wonders answered the question of who was sent of God and who was not, where apostles moving in the Spirit might exercise the immediate death sentance (Acts 5), or blindness (Acts 13:11), and where a good rebuke put the fear of God into the rebellious(Acts8:23), and the Angel of the Lord would send preachers without a committee, and without reason being required the preacher just obeyed and went.

I think there is something being overlooked in the discussion of "modern prophets"

A prophet is never self-appointed.

John 5:

36 "But the testimony which I have is greater than the testimony of John; for the works which the Father has given Me to accomplish--the very works that I do--testify about Me, that the Father has sent Me.

37 "And the Father who sent Me, He has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His form.

38 "You do not have His word abiding in you, for you do not believe Him whom He sent.

39 You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me;

40 and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.

41 I do not receive glory from men;

42 but I know you, that you do not have the love of God in yourselves.

43 "I have come in My Father's name, and you do not receive Me; if another comes in his own name, you will receive him.

44 "How can you believe, when you receive glory from one another and you do not seek the glory that is from the one and only God?

How many prophets do you know of now?

[AnotherTraveler]

I think there is something being overlooked in the discussion of "modern prophets"

A prophet is never self-appointed.

Very good point, I agree completely, but there are prophets, and I know some of them, and they would never self appoint, in fact, they are very careful to never add nor take away from what the Lord is saying.

(Eph 4:10 KJV) He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

(Eph 4:11 KJV) And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

(Eph 4:12 KJV) For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

(Eph 4:13 KJV) Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

(Eph 4:14 KJV) That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

(Eph 4:15 KJV) But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

(Eph 4:16 KJV) From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

There is a time related verse here (Eph 4:13 KJV) Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

Till means until, and therefore He who gave these these did so until, that is why we still have evangelists, pastors, and teachers, the until has not yet been fulfilled.

[Guest yod]

oh I don't doubt that there are prophets....I just doubt that there are more than a handful in the world...and they are not going around merchandising it.

If someone tells you that they are a prophet...you can dismiss them immediately.

A prophet will be recognized by his works...his verifiable history...his/her spiritual authority will be known.

I don't think that there are any on the Elijah list...including Rick Joyner.

There are certainly folks who have prophecied...or have given "a" prophecy..but that is not the same thing as a prophet.

I can't think of a single one of the top of my head...

there was a guy named Steve Lytle who might have been. He wrote a book in 1983 describing the fall of the Soviet Union exactly...and also gave the escape route of Russian jews through Finland.

I heard him prophecy in 1990 that Islam would take the place of Communism as a the biggest threat to christians in the world...but that at the end of it, a great number of muslims would become believers in a day....at Mecca....and that would be the end of Islam.

I guess we'll see, huh? He was right about everything else.

[jamie]

Oh theres prophets but i'm sure that they are nobodies, unknowns. I know a guy who fits the bill, it is uncanny how he can prophesy and hit the nail every time. He is probably one of the wisest men of God i have ever met. He's just a regular guy, not in a leadership position. He uses his gift whenever the Holy Spirit tells him to. There are people out there who are prophets but a popular prophet is soon of no profit.