THE PROPHETIC MOVEMENT FAILING GOD??

[Guest yod]

Yeah....you tell 'em, bruthaa!!!!!

[Guest idied2]

What is the chapter and verse for this jewel?

[AnotherTraveler]

"No one and no thing is failing GOD. If it could HE wouldn't be GOD."

(Heb 12:14 KJV) Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:

(Heb 12:15 KJV) Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;

Why would we look diligently lest any man fail the grace of God if it is not possible?

(Luke 22:31 KJV) And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:

(Luke 22:32 KJV) But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

Why would Jesus pray that Peter's faith fail not, if it could not?

(Luke 16:9 KJV) And I say unto you, Make to yourselves friends of the mammon of unrighteousness; that, when ye fail, they may receive you into everlasting habitations.

This statement by Jesus gives advice to someone that is headed to failure, declaring "when ye fail" not "if"

Now perhaps you could argue that failing the grace of God is not failing God, and having your faith fail is not failing God, and even someone that Jesus said was going to fail didn't fail God, but those rose colored glasses don't stand up to the scriptural challange.

(2 Sam 22:24 KJV) I was also upright before him, and have kept myself from mine iniquity.

(2 Sam 22:25 KJV) Therefore the LORD hath recompensed me according to my righteousness; according to my cleanness in his eye sight.

(2 Sam 22:26 KJV) With the merciful thou wilt show thyself merciful, and with the upright man thou wilt show thyself upright.

(2 Sam 22:27 KJV) With the pure thou wilt show thyself pure; and with the froward thou wilt show thyself unsavoury.

(2 Sam 22:28 KJV) And the afflicted people thou wilt save: but thine eyes are upon the haughty, that thou mayest bring them down.

These verses show our responsibility (kept myself from mine iniquity) God's response was (Therefore the LORD hath recompensed me according to my righteousness; according to my cleanness in his eye sight.) Notice that the response was according to, that is a preportional response.

Then these verses also show a little of the nature of God, for you will get from the Lord what you are willing to give, and Pharoah WAS the ruler of a great nation that enslaved, tortured, and murdered with complete freedom whomever he wanted to, he WAS hard hearted, and when the Lord dealt with him, the Lord hardened his heart, true, but missing is the nature of Pharoah and his willingness and desire to be hardhearted. God gave him his life pattern's desire, his heart's desire.

The next question is ..."Is the will of God done in the earth today?" Consider these scriptures...

(2 Pet 3:7 KJV) But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

(2 Pet 3:8 KJV) But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

(2 Pet 3:9 KJV) The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance, is that the case in the earth today?

Jesus taught us to pray...

(Mat 6:9 KJV) After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

(Mat 6:10 KJV) Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

If according to your theory, "No one and no thing is failing GOD. If it could HE wouldn't be GOD.", then why does Jesus have us wasting our time praying for that which, according to you, is inevitable and impending and on schedule anyway?

(Mat 24:20 KJV) But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

This scripture seams to indicate that our prayer can have an impact on the TIMING of an impending event, and my point is that the "all is well, don't feel the need to do anything" teaching is one of the most destructive "feel good" doctrines of demons that there is.

[AnotherTraveler]

Sorry about the messed up BOLD fonts, I failed to print this right

[nebula]

There are legitimate schools for pastors called "seminary"

Really?

I thought it was called "cemetary?"

[jamie]

I think these "schools" teach the preachers how to not preach the gospel.

Aron Rogers preached a sermon one time called "plastic preachers", it was an eye opener.

[sachi]

ANOTHE TRAVELLER: Quote:

The next morning (Sunday) the pastor resigned from the church that he founded and pastored for 19 years, 3 days after the prophecy.

Now everyone avoided that same ex-pastor.

Except the young prophet, he went to the ex-pastor daily for months encouraging him to live for God, repent, and forgive others. He befriended him and worked to restore his brother.

That is truly a touching story.

What that young prophet did AFTER his prophecy was revealed is greater than the prohetic word he gave, in my opinion.

He showed the compassion and supported his 'brother' back to strength in faith.

Perhaps had he abandoned the pastor, like everyone else did- the pastor may have lost his faith entirely

.

Great is the reward for one soul gain /sustained for the Kingdom.

I find we are often quick to turn our backs to those who have evidently 'fallen' - rather than come alonsgide them.

It is the Christian who has fallen who needs MOST the support of believers.

I think it is this staying witness that is more necessary in our modern churches , than is prophecy.

Edited September 17, 2004 by sachi

[Scudbuddy]

"If someone tells you that they are a prophet...you can dismiss them immediately."

This statement is not correct. You assume pride in the job description, so that if a prophet acknowledges the truth instantly they are to be dismissed? If someone claims to be a plumber, is this correct? What if they claim to be a pastor?

Yes, I have known people that claimed they were this or that and they were a spiritual sour note, I could easily tell that they were functionally disfunctional.

The true ones that I have met are humble, they would not go around declaring themselves to be a prophet, but if demanded, they would not deny what the Lord called them to be and to do. They might, however, just ignore a scathing attitude, refusing to dignify an unwarranted attack with a response.

We need the ministry of the prophets, they take authority over sin in fellow Christian ministers, and bring cleansing to the body.

Let me tell you of an experience that I had. I was at a church of about 400 and the pastor had founded this church and pastored for 19 years, very highly regarded (I personally thought a great deal of this man myself).

A young unknown prophet spoke on a Thursday and said that "...the Lord would remove him and that the congregation would not have to suffer him." No one knew of any sin that the pastor was doing, including the young unknown prophet. Everyone knew it was the Lord speaking, and the pastor also acknowledged that it was the Lord.

Two days later, 3 deacons and their wives were driving in a major city (they were going out to eat together) and they saw the pastor's pickup parked in front of a homosexual bar, and walking in they found him dancing with a man. The next morning (Sunday) the pastor resigned from the church that he founded and pastored for 19 years, 3 days after the prophecy.

Now everyone avoided that same ex-pastor.

Except the young prophet, he went to the ex-pastor daily for months encouraging him to live for God, repent, and forgive others. He befriended him and worked to restore his brother.

No one will tell me he was not a prophet, but he never said that he was a prophet, that's what God said of him through others.

Thank you for that incredible story. Stories like that strengthen my resolve to see the prophetic taught properly in the church.

I believe that we have really bad foundations in our churches for the prophetic. And it is because we have myths that run this gift.

How many of you are stoned when you pray for the sick and they don't get better?

How many of you are stoned for praying for anything and nothing happening?

Why is it that we can try to learn how to operate in the other gifts, and have a 5% success rate, and it be no big deal? In fact if it is a 5% success rate in the area of "Miracles", it is considered incredible, and it makes the denominations top cover story in their monthly magazine; and yet if we give a thousand prophetic words, and all but one is right on, we are ready to stone the person who missed it?

Why is the prophetic gift the one we have to operate in perfectly or we have committed the unforgiveable? (Don't tell me you see it as anything less than that when you say they are a false prophet and false prophets were put to death in the OT.)

This gift needs to be taught properly. Because it is not, many who do operate in it refuse to admit they are wrong for fear of being labeled a "False Prophet." So they go into denial, and keep on practicing the gift wrong, and get less and less accurate. There was probaly a day when they operated with a pretty good accurate record. But because you can't make mistakes, when they did, they reacted out of fear, and fear does nothing good in the area of learning. These prophetic type ministers were then ambushed by this gifts unbiblical pressure to be perfect.

We have to stop this. Pastors, teach this gift with the allowance to be wrong as long as your willing to learn and own up to it. That way the gift can be learned properly. This is why Samuel had a school of prophets and so did Elisha. It is to be taught. Character, accuracy, and the rules and regulations of what God allows us to meddle in is not learned overnight. It is a process. And because we don't have that process in our churches, no wonder many churches want nothing to do with the prophetic.

Our system produces Vain imaginations and pride. It produces fear of failure. Give us Schools of the Prophetic that will teach the students character, humility, accuracy and proper foundational teachings concerning this gift. And then we will have better prophetic people who know the proper way to hear God and implement what they hear so that men know that God is still speaking to His church today!

[sachi]

SCUDBUDDY:

Hello again -we meet on this post - greetings in the Lord -

That isa pretty impassioned argument in support of the Prophetic Gift,

I also wonder why the Prophetic Gift has to be 100% on all the time.

However the Bible does tell us that the authenticity of the Prophet will be 'proven' by the accuracy of his word.

Besides I think we make too much of the 'prophetic' thing in the Pentecostal churches. I really do.

Everyone wants to be 'hearing from the Lord."

Sometimes I find its too much, you know . . .

Beside, what doesit merit me . . to get a word of prophecy . ..

Paul said the GREATER GIFT IS LOVE.

The incident ANOTHER TRAVELLER relates @ the young prophet is a case in point

What do you think had greater eternal value - his prophecy or his ministry to the 'fallen' pastor?

Edited September 17, 2004 by sachi

[Guest yod]

scuddybuddy,

I must disagree. There is no room for error when someone speaks for God. None whatsoever.

If someone is being "schooled" to be a prophet, they better be quiet until they've heard the Lord tell them to talk.

Or they are a false prophet.

It ain't a "trial & error" kinda job.