Motive

[JCISGD]

I posted this topic as so many questions are asked about, " is such and such a sin or is it ok to do such and such". These are valid questions for the enquirer and in no way do i mean to discourage or redicule any that ask any questions.

What provoked me to post this topic, was the predominate replies that fail to notice that motive is the decider of right and wrong, with the exception of having good motive but doing nothing to attempt carrying it out, or doing something wrong while thinking it right. The thing remains wrong even if the motive be right.

A person can go to church, heal the sick, cast out demons and raise the dead, from good motive or bad. It is the same with every activity, it can be done out of good motive or bad motive.

Many seem to approve behaviour that they think is ok based on what is considerd good behaviour, but God sees the heart and knows the motive and this is what He judges on. A person may do something wrong believing it to be right and do it from a good heart/motive, God will bring them correction if they are open but He will not judge them as guilty and needing discipline.

If anyone wants to know how they are doing, they must look into their heart and check their motives and not their actions, thoughts or feelings.

[Trusting Jesus]

When I was a teenager my youth pastor had us study "situational ethics". There were questions like "Your family is starving and you steal some food. Is this a sin". I was never able to find scripture to back up that it is ok by God's standards to steal in certain situations.

I'm curious as to what scripture you are using to base your opinion. I would very much like to read them and draw some conclusions.

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Nathele

[JCISGD]

When I was a teenager my youth pastor had us study "situational ethics". There were questions like "Your family is starving and you steal some food. Is this a sin". I was never able to find scripture to back up that it is ok by God's standards to steal in certain situations.

I'm curious as to what scripture you are using to base your opinion. I would very much like to read them and draw some conclusions.

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Nathele

hi TJ, i wasnt basing it on scripture but on correct physcology and ethics. I mean who would argue that its ok to go to church with a wrong motive such as finding some supposed dirt to spread malicious rumour, but yet all know that going to church is generally a good thing. So we can see it is the motive that makes the action right or wrong. Again someone may ask is it ok to watch such and such a movie, well even the most objectional movie is first watched by the censors to have a standard, now the censors motive for watching the movie is good even if we disagree on the standard but another watches the same movie for gratification of lustful desires. We can see again that it is motive and not the movie per se that is wrong, even if the movie is wrong on many accounts the censor does not know this untill it is watched perhaps.

In answer to your request though i flipped open my bible and the first words i saw were Jesus` approval of David eating the showbread which was only for the Priests. Davids motive was not just to satisfy a little hunger or whim, it was to strengthen himself and the others for the very important task ahead without which there may be no temple to show the bread in. If it had only been for Davids pleasure he would have possibly been struck down by God.

Is it ok to steal to stave of hunger? well not if you can get food through the proper channels. But which is of more value a life created in the image of God or a law intended to make life better. So while the law is good it is not as great as the law of the sanctity of life.

Motive, motive, motive, it all boils down to this does it not.

Another scripture is in Ezk 33:13-16 If a righteous man changes his heart to do wickedness then all his past righteousness counts for nothing. Why is this? it is because he has changed his motive to serve and please God to a heart/motive to please himself. God is looking at his motive and not his actions or past actions. Again if a wicked man stops sinning and changes his heart/motive then God will accept him and is well pleased. The man may have been blatantly wicked but he now has a good motive.

The thief on the cross that Jesus recieved had no opportunity to make restitution or do good works but he was found right with God in an instant as he changed his heart towards God and if he had been released to survive God knew his motive for coming to Jesus was pure and not just to escape hell. His motive was right while the other man surely wanted to escape hell also he did not want to love and serve God, so he was not drawn to Jesus on account of his wrong motive.

I admit this is abit subjective and not thoroughly proved, but i think also it is in line with what we take for granted in everyday living.

Motive comes from the word motivation that which moves us forward, it is the why or the reason that we do something.

[Guest HIS girl]

Your motivation may be different to my motivation even if it is from the heart BUT if we are connected to the Vine and united to the Father as Jesus is united to the Father, the Spirit of Truth (Holy Spirit) will remind us of the Biblical teachings and prompt us to do what pleases the Father.

[JCISGD]

Your motivation may be different to my motivation even if it is from the heart BUT if we are connected to the Vine and united to the Father as Jesus is united to the Father, the Spirit of Truth (Holy Spirit) will remind us of the Biblical teachings and prompt us to do what pleases the Father.

I agree HIS girl, but i think you have moved away from my point of motive being what determines something right or wrong and not nescessarily the activity itself, and have mixed up right/wrong motive with general motivation as in say the sports arena. Two people can indeed have very different motivation and the motive still be right, but motive is only right when it is not selfish and two people may do the same thing but one for selfish reasons and the other for benevolent reasons.

Im speaking theologically, not in general terms if that makes sense.

[KC02]

I'm not sure what good this belief is. Are we saying nothing is wrong as long as we have good intentions? Or we need to worry ourselves sick over figuring out our motives for every little thing we do?

I can't explain all of my own motives. If I sleep an extra hour or two on the weekends, I'm not sure if it's because I am lazy or just worn-out. I suspect it's a little bit of both.

I'm not gonna worry too much about it because I don't think God wants that. God doesn't want us living in fear that out salvation will be taken away arbitrarily. I think that is where this thinking could lead to: paralyzing fear.

I think you are on to something but going about it the wrong way. God does look at our heart. I believe He sees Jesus' blood, and not my shortcomings and bad motives.

Shortcomings and bad motives is part of being human. I'm not sure I can ever escape it.

[Guest HIS girl]

Your motivation may be different to my motivation even if it is from the heart BUT if we are connected to the Vine and united to the Father as Jesus is united to the Father, the Spirit of Truth (Holy Spirit) will remind us of the Biblical teachings and prompt us to do what pleases the Father.

I agree HIS girl, but i think you have moved away from my point of motive being what determines something right or wrong and not nescessarily the activity itself, and have mixed up right/wrong motive with general motivation as in say the sports arena. Two people can indeed have very different motivation and the motive still be right, but motive is only right when it is not selfish and two people may do the same thing but one for selfish reasons and the other for benevolent reasons.

Im speaking theologically, not in general terms if that makes sense.

My issue with what you put forth JCISGD is it nearly borders on "good intentions" angle.

EG: A parent is destitute and the children are starving so he steals food - the motivation is to feed his kids.

EG: She loves her fiance so much and her motivation is to please him - so they end up in bed (these are examples BTW)

When we align these actions alongside the Bible, we see error. In both these scenarios, the motivation could be considered selfless.

A woman once told me she would prostitute herself in order to feed her child if they were in poverty.......

[JCISGD]

I'm not sure what good this belief is. Are we saying nothing is wrong as long as we have good intentions? Or we need to worry ourselves sick over figuring out our motives for every little thing we do?

I can't explain all of my own motives. If I sleep an extra hour or two on the weekends, I'm not sure if it's because I am lazy or just worn-out. I suspect it's a little bit of both.

I'm not gonna worry too much about it because I don't think God wants that. God doesn't want us living in fear that out salvation will be taken away arbitrarily. I think that is where this thinking could lead to: paralyzing fear.

I think you are on to something but going about it the wrong way. God does look at our heart. I believe He sees Jesus' blood, and not my shortcomings and bad motives.

Shortcomings and bad motives is part of being human. I'm not sure I can ever escape it.

Let me put some of your concerns to rest if i can.

Im not saying we can do what we like as long as we mean well, only thay God does not judge it as sin.

Definatley no need to worry about every motive, i was only pointing to the yardstick for when someone asks is this particular thing a sin.

I didnt say God would take away salvation, those are your words i wasnt intending any such thing.

You hit the nail on the head when you said "God looks at our heart" and this is what im saying makes it right or wrong and not nescessarliy the action itself.

Short commings are human but not nescessarily sin.

KC did you read my posts carefully? Im not sure how you got those concens. Peace and blessings.

[KC02]

We had an old man who used to preach at our church on occasion. Honestly, I never liked his preaching, but one night he said something profound. He was talking about people who commit suicide, and concluded that "they fell in the hands of a just and Mighty God."

That's about all we can say about anybody.

Many Christians believe that any infraction will cause them to go to hell. Do Christians go to Heaven with sin in their lives? That might be the topic of another thread (and an important one). You seem to equate bad motives with sin, so I made that connection.

Brother, I think we truly are on two different pages. I just don't want to torture some Christians with obsessing over motives and sin and fear when there is no reason to.

I suppose sanctification brings about, and corrects our motives as we mature in Christ. I believe it is a progressivre work (as opposed to instantaneous) and there is no use to beat ourselves up. I remember when I first got saved, the next week I felt like I was worse off than the week before. I was wrestling with lust, cussing, addictions, disbelief, and you name it. But over the years I have defeated some of them.

Finally, I'm not certain motive is a good yard stick for sin. God's Word, definitely.

I'm not sure what good this belief is. Are we saying nothing is wrong as long as we have good intentions? Or we need to worry ourselves sick over figuring out our motives for every little thing we do?

I can't explain all of my own motives. If I sleep an extra hour or two on the weekends, I'm not sure if it's because I am lazy or just worn-out. I suspect it's a little bit of both.

I'm not gonna worry too much about it because I don't think God wants that. God doesn't want us living in fear that out salvation will be taken away arbitrarily. I think that is where this thinking could lead to: paralyzing fear.

I think you are on to something but going about it the wrong way. God does look at our heart. I believe He sees Jesus' blood, and not my shortcomings and bad motives.

Shortcomings and bad motives is part of being human. I'm not sure I can ever escape it.

Let me put some of your concerns to rest if i can.

Im not saying we can do what we like as long as we mean well, only thay God does not judge it as sin.

Definatley no need to worry about every motive, i was only pointing to the yardstick for when someone asks is this particular thing a sin.

I didnt say God would take away salvation, those are your words i wasnt intending any such thing.

You hit the nail on the head when you said "God looks at our heart" and this is what im saying makes it right or wrong and not nescessarliy the action itself.

Short commings are human but not nescessarily sin.

KC did you read my posts carefully? Im not sure how you got those concens. Peace and blessings.

[JCISGD]

KC i get where your coming from and do side with you in not wanting to have people obsessing over every little choice or motive. I agree we are not on the same page.

I agree scripture is the yardstick, but take any command such as keep the sabbath etc, the Pharisee`s kept them religiously but their motive was all wrong.

Its not nescessary to look (or as you say obsess) into our motives unless we get a check in our spirit about something we are doing. The aim of the OP was to point out that behaviour is judged right or wrong on the motive, and not the seeming innocence or sometimes the appearance of wrong.

Many questions are asked here on WF is such and such a thing a sin, and there need not be any more difficulty to find out the motive rather than looking only at the action or behavior.

imho.