evetsegap Posted March 5, 2010 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 49 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/26/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/29/1956 Share Posted March 5, 2010 The thief on the cross died under the old covenant. No person who died prior to the beginning of the New Covenant (after the resurrection) was told to be Baptized. not sure i want to get into this debate, but i do have a question about this statement. what was john the baptist's ministry prior to the resurrection? wasn't he telling people to be baptized? Yes he did tell people to be baptized. Even those who received John's Baptism had to believe in the resurrection of Jesus. If a person was baptized by John, but did not believe in Jesus they were not saved. John was introducing the covenant of atonement by the Blood of Jesus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthitjah Posted March 5, 2010 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 1,285 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 17,917 Content Per Day: 2.27 Reputation: 355 Days Won: 19 Joined: 10/01/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted March 5, 2010 Grace to you, Evetsegap, Would your logic and reasoning on the matter then lead you to conclude that there are two classes of believer. Old Testament Saint and New Testament Saint? Is their standing different before God? Peace, Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evetsegap Posted March 5, 2010 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 49 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/26/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/29/1956 Share Posted March 5, 2010 Grace to you, Evetsegap, Would your logic and reasoning on the matter then lead you to conclude that there are two classes of believer. Old Testament Saint and New Testament Saint? Is their standing different before God? Peace, Dave There are only differing covenants and differences in what is believed in. No person, in the older covenant was told "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved" All of those who believe in Jesus and who have (or had) Biblical faith have the same standing before God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick-Parker Posted March 5, 2010 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 200 Topics Per Day: 0.23 Content Count: 4,272 Content Per Day: 4.88 Reputation: 1,855 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/17/2021 Status: Offline Birthday: 06/03/1955 Share Posted March 5, 2010 Are we to believe that the person who accepts Christ as their personal savior but doesn't decide to get baptized until 2 months later is not saved? What if they were to die the day before they were to be baptized? Are they not saved? Or are they saved and baptism an act of obedience to a command of the Lord as an outward demonstration to the world that you are His. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
humbleseeker Posted March 5, 2010 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 519 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/11/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/28/1980 Author Share Posted March 5, 2010 Well thats the question I asked the bible study leader and he said that it would be for God to decide. I agree with you. Salvation comes through faith in Christ Baptism completes our desire to obey Christ command. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted March 5, 2010 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.22 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted March 5, 2010 Baptism is not the completion, but part of the beginning. We are sanctified all through our walk in Him. The only end date is when we die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthitjah Posted March 5, 2010 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 1,285 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 17,917 Content Per Day: 2.27 Reputation: 355 Days Won: 19 Joined: 10/01/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted March 5, 2010 Grace to you, Evetsegap, Would your logic and reasoning on the matter then lead you to conclude that there are two classes of believer. Old Testament Saint and New Testament Saint? Is their standing different before God? Peace, Dave There are only differing covenants and differences in what is believed in. No person, in the older covenant was told "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved" All of those who believe in Jesus and who have (or had) Biblical faith have the same standing before God. Grace to you, So Abraham's standing before God is different than ours? In what way, can you explain? I believe that Jesus Himself said that we should believe God that we should put Faith in His Word and that His Word was this revelation that Christ is God. I also believe that Patriarchs like Abraham believed God and were looking forward to the day of the Messiah, even Moses said as much. Joh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted March 5, 2010 Share Posted March 5, 2010 God is the same the covenant is not. The thief on the cross died under the old covenant, and it does not matter if it was only three days before the start of the old covenant. The Thief died under the New Covenant. He died AFTER Jesus said, "it is finished." The New Covenant was cut in the blood of Jesus. The Old Covenant system was finished in the death of Jesus. Furthermore, if baptism were required for salvation under the NT, there would be an OT type or shadow to indicate such a change. There would have been an OT prophetic word to that end. All New Testament as OT doctrinal counterparts. So, any doctrine that demands baptism as necessary for salvation in the New Covenant would have to have an Old Testament counterpart. No such counterpart exists for the assertion that baptism is required for salvation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Chris111 Posted March 5, 2010 Share Posted March 5, 2010 OK first of all I have been looking for a better church life and have been not very succesfull in finding a church recently, anyway I have been going to a bible study with some friends of mine, who realy seem like great people. Tonight the question was raised about baptism being the completion of our salvation. Since many times in the bible people were baptized right after yhey accepted Christ. I totally disagread and felt like an outcast but I had to speak up on this matter. I believe that salvation comes when we accept Jesus, then we must be baptized as a sighn of new life in Christ. So I was wondering what people here think? Hi, Just a thought! Most of the time we are christened by our parents and so we are to young at this point to accecpt christ ourselves, it is only when we make the choice ourselves when we are older that we affirm our faith in jesus and so undergo a "confirmation". I think that our salvation will only be complete when we have lived our lives in accordance with the teachings of Christ Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted March 5, 2010 Share Posted March 5, 2010 I think that our salvation will only be complete when we have lived our lives in accordance with the teachings of Christ Salvation is already complete. Jesus paid it all. It has nothing to do with how we live our lives except that our lives are a reflection of the salvation we have received. We can do nothing to add completeness to what Jesus has already provided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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