Kraft - what were you thinking???

[Fez]

No I guess not, "it's just an animal show" Get two kangaroos, tie them up with a leather restraining belt, provoke them into self defense while their ears (much better hearing than ours - probably up to 10 times more racket in their ears), are bombarded by screaming audience, shine bright lights in their faces for the camera, assault their noses (100 times more power than ours at least), and call it "entertainment".

So I guess it was only an animal, and "mistreatment" does not take place. Perhaps like the killer whale, it's "research"

Bet you they would rather be be jumping out there in the outback, and picking their fights......

BOING, boing, boing, I'm outta here.......

It is just an animal. On the other hand the actual humans involved just lost a source of income for their family. Remember when we used to care about humans?

Yes I do, but just not the one's that torture animals for financial gain. So it's OK if I am out of work to get me two pit bulls and start a dog fighting ring? Of course animals have their place in society, and some have been so inbred, and conditioned, that they cannot survive without us. There is a difference between some old lady finding company with one of those "dogs" not much bigger than a rat, and named "Fifi", (you know, the one's that kill rotweilers by getting stuck in their throats in a fight), and a tormented wild animal like a headlocked kangaroo.

And none of your veiled attempts to "defend" what is happening with these kangaroo's can have any validity if you are a caring human being with a sense of moral responsibility - which I am sure, being a Christian, you are.

[Axxman]

Yes I do, but just not the one's that torture animals for financial gain. So it's OK if I am out of work to get me two pit bulls and start a dog fighting ring? Of course animals have their place in society, and some have been so inbred, and conditioned, that they cannot survive without us. There is a difference between some old lady finding company with one of those "dogs" not much bigger than a rat, and named "Fifi", (you know, the one's that kill rotweilers by getting stuck in their throats in a fight), and a tormented wild animal like a headlocked kangaroo.

And none of your veiled attempts to "defend" what is happening with these kangaroo's can have any validity if you are a caring human being with a sense of moral responsibility - which I am sure, being a Christian, you are.

Bro...you just compared a dog fighting ring in which animals are trained to kill each other...with a circus show in which trainers play around with kangaroos. I have a dog. He's a fun loving animal who I wrestle with and play box with all the time. He loves it, and I love it. Thats all this family is doing with this kangaroo...they are playing with a pet that is obviously not threatened by them one little bit. Its a boxing kangaroo...a symbol that Australians looovvveee (watch the olympics?)...and this family makes money and entertains people with the concept without being cruel in any way. If you watch the video it is clear that the animal is not tormented (or tortured) in any way.

[Fez]

Yes I do, but just not the one's that torture animals for financial gain. So it's OK if I am out of work to get me two pit bulls and start a dog fighting ring? Of course animals have their place in society, and some have been so inbred, and conditioned, that they cannot survive without us. There is a difference between some old lady finding company with one of those "dogs" not much bigger than a rat, and named "Fifi", (you know, the one's that kill rotweilers by getting stuck in their throats in a fight), and a tormented wild animal like a headlocked kangaroo.

And none of your veiled attempts to "defend" what is happening with these kangaroo's can have any validity if you are a caring human being with a sense of moral responsibility - which I am sure, being a Christian, you are.

Bro...you just compared a dog fighting ring in which animals are trained to kill each other...with a circus show in which trainers play around with kangaroos. I have a dog. He's a fun loving animal who I wrestle with and play box with all the time. He loves it, and I love it. Thats all this family is doing with this kangaroo...they are playing with a pet that is obviously not threatened by them one little bit. Its a boxing kangaroo...a symbol that Australians looovvveee (watch the olympics?)...and this family makes money and entertains people with the concept without being cruel in any way. If you watch the video it is clear that the animal is not tormented (or tortured) in any way.

The difference between your dog, and the kangaroo, is that your dog has been bred over generations to do, and enjoy, exactly what you are doing with him, and that's great. The difference with a wild animal, who's species has never been bred, or conditioned to be domesticated, is what I am trying to get at. Perhaps the fact that my work is managing a world heritage site which is full of wild animals, doing what wild animals do, and that I "interact" with them as little as possible, may have something to do with my opinion.

And my opinion is this, training dogs to kill each other, and tormenting a kangaroo by putting a headlock on it to make it preform, and keeping it in captivity, are both, in my opinion on the same level of misuse of animals, in that it should not be happening. (oh don't get me wrong, of course one is a blood sport and an abomination, just as is bullfighting, but I consider what is happening with these Kangaroo's, captive Orca's, etc, also an abomination).

[Guest HIS girl]

It's just an animal show. There is no indication that the animals were mistreated or uncared for in any way.

Ax, the headlock you put your dogs in may be a little different to this - goading is not playing - goading is provoking...usually in the negative.

[Axxman]

The difference between your dog, and the kangaroo, is that your dog has been bred over generations to do, and enjoy, exactly what you are doing with him, and that's great. The difference with a wild animal, who's species has never been bred, or conditioned to be domesticated, is what I am trying to get at. Perhaps the fact that my work is managing a world heritage site which is full of wild animals, doing what wild animals do, and that I "interact" with them as little as possible, may have something to do with my opinion.

And my opinion is this, training dogs to kill each other, and tormenting a kangaroo by putting a headlock on it to make it preform, and keeping it in captivity, are both, in my opinion on the same level of misuse of animals, in that it should not be happening. (oh don't get me wrong, of course one is a blood sport and an abomination, just as is bullfighting, but I consider what is happening with these Kangaroo's, captive Orca's, etc, also an abomination).

You know yesterday after I wrote back to you I remembered your work and it occured to me that you may have a different opinion because of that...and I can respect that. My work has greatly shaped the view of the world I have.

A couple of thoughts come to mind. Yes, dogs have been bred over generations...but it had to start somewhere. They weren't always domesticated. I have no idea how domesticated these kangaroos are...but they certainly seem pretty playful in the various videos I hunted down. It actually reminded me of how my dog and I play, only the kangaroo is WAAAYYYY bigger.

Another thing to consider is the source of the info. That article came from an Australian newspaper that was against the idea. Well, we all know about media bias and all. They greatly exaggerated the ordeal. The trainer does not put the animal into a headlock to make it perform. The animal often puts the trainer in a "headlock", which is actually more of a hug with the roo's arms around his shoulders, and the trainer acts it up.

Lastly, I object to the hypocrisy of Australian media. The mascot for the Australian Olympic team was a boxing kangaroo (complete with boxing gloves.) They fought to have the Boxing Kangaroo flag flown during the Olmpics...and won the right to do so largely because of the media pressure. This is an image that they project and are proud of. Fact is, we don't know where this man gets his kangaroo's from. Australians who are so up in arms about this little circus sideshow, farm kangaroo's for meat and fur...maybe this man uses rescued kangaroos and gives them a better shot at living than they would have had in 'ol Australia?

[Axxman]

Ax, the headlock you put your dogs in may be a little different to this - goading is not playing - goading is provoking...usually in the negative.

Of course they used the word "bait" ...it made the whole thing seem so much more sinister. If they had used less offensive words they wouldn't have gotten enough people on their bandwagon to destroy a family. I also think they got the headlock part wrong (intentionally???) because it is the animal that continuously wraps its long arms around the mans head. In one video the roo practically puts a sleeper hold on the wife..which was actually kind of funny cuz the roo was pwning them...lol. And even then, they didn't remotely get rough with the animal.

[~candice~]

The difference between your dog, and the kangaroo, is that your dog has been bred over generations to do, and enjoy, exactly what you are doing with him, and that's great. The difference with a wild animal, who's species has never been bred, or conditioned to be domesticated, is what I am trying to get at. Perhaps the fact that my work is managing a world heritage site which is full of wild animals, doing what wild animals do, and that I "interact" with them as little as possible, may have something to do with my opinion.

And my opinion is this, training dogs to kill each other, and tormenting a kangaroo by putting a headlock on it to make it preform, and keeping it in captivity, are both, in my opinion on the same level of misuse of animals, in that it should not be happening. (oh don't get me wrong, of course one is a blood sport and an abomination, just as is bullfighting, but I consider what is happening with these Kangaroo's, captive Orca's, etc, also an abomination).

You know yesterday after I wrote back to you I remembered your work and it occured to me that you may have a different opinion because of that...and I can respect that. My work has greatly shaped the view of the world I have.

A couple of thoughts come to mind. Yes, dogs have been bred over generations...but it had to start somewhere. They weren't always domesticated. I have no idea how domesticated these kangaroos are...but they certainly seem pretty playful in the various videos I hunted down. It actually reminded me of how my dog and I play, only the kangaroo is WAAAYYYY bigger.

Another thing to consider is the source of the info. That article came from an Australian newspaper that was against the idea. Well, we all know about media bias and all. They greatly exaggerated the ordeal. The trainer does not put the animal into a headlock to make it perform. The animal often puts the trainer in a "headlock", which is actually more of a hug with the roo's arms around his shoulders, and the trainer acts it up.

Lastly, I object to the hypocrisy of Australian media. The mascot for the Australian Olympic team was a boxing kangaroo (complete with boxing gloves.) They fought to have the Boxing Kangaroo flag flown during the Olmpics...and won the right to do so largely because of the media pressure. This is an image that they project and are proud of. Fact is, we don't know where this man gets his kangaroo's from. Australians who are so up in arms about this little circus sideshow, farm kangaroo's for meat and fur...maybe this man uses rescued kangaroos and gives them a better shot at living than they would have had in 'ol Australia?

Oh my word...

This is about as different as bull fighting is to eating a steak.

We fly a flag proudly, that hardly condones violence towards kangaroos now does it. It's called the boxing kangaroo, not because we actually box with it or force it to box, but because that is what it does in the wild. If this same event happened in Australia I think we would still be up in arms about it.

Kangaroos are deadly animals. Whatever you saw in your "movie research" was bogus. If you see one in the wild, in action, you might have a greater appreciation for how dangerous they are. They are killers.

[nebula]

Kangaroos in the wild "boxing" is not play. It is a fight for dominance.

[Guest HIS girl]

Kangaroos in the wild "boxing" is not play. It is a fight for dominance.

and defence.

[Fez]

My point is just that I think it is wrong to use "wild" animals for any sort of entertainment. I see the Cove won an Oscar - gut wrenching movie about the slaughter of dolphins.

I do however exclude Rover, Fido, Fifi and Snuggles from the above. They are domesticated pets and there is a vast difference. Hey, I don't even like zoo's, except if they are wildlife rehab centers set up to try and put wild animals back where they belong.