Commentor Posted December 21, 2002 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 49 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/06/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted December 21, 2002 I don't know if anyone has ever hear of this ministry before, but it's a good place about the end times and prophecy, www.endtime.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest FishMan Posted December 24, 2002 Share Posted December 24, 2002 I have listened to their radio program called Politics and Religion for some time now. Very good prophecy teaching for the most part, but they do have a different spin on a lot of aspects of Bible prophecy. FishMan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angels4u Posted December 25, 2002 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 55 Topic Count: 1,664 Topics Per Day: 0.20 Content Count: 19,764 Content Per Day: 2.38 Reputation: 12,164 Days Won: 28 Joined: 08/22/2001 Status: Offline Share Posted December 25, 2002 Hi Commentor, I tried to get to their website, but it couldn't open it, I will try again.. God Bless,Angels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abbershay Posted December 26, 2002 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 49 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 562 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/03/2002 Status: Offline Author Share Posted December 26, 2002 you may be very surprised at the things they dont believe...... i Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catsmeow Posted December 26, 2002 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 439 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 7,315 Content Per Day: 0.93 Reputation: 356 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/21/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted December 26, 2002 Abbershay: I went to their website and looked carefully at their statement of faith. It looks pretty much in order. They say (officially) that God became man in the form of Jesus Christ; also that Jesus Christ's finished work on the cross is the way to salvation. So far, it sounds good...maybe on the boards there you got somebody who was "off base". That can happen. Anyone can log into a website and chat on the boards. I read somewhere that some ex-Satanists, (who converted to Christianity) confessed that when they were in the craft, they'd visit Christian chat lines and purposely throw in divisive statements and controversial issues just to create trouble for the Christians. They do the same in churches, just to create chaos. Now, that's what I read in a book and therefore qualifies as "heresay". It's not the gospel truth. But if it is true, I wouldn't be surprised. Nevertheless, the site looks like a Christian news site; I still like WB much better. - Cat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angels4u Posted December 26, 2002 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 55 Topic Count: 1,664 Topics Per Day: 0.20 Content Count: 19,764 Content Per Day: 2.38 Reputation: 12,164 Days Won: 28 Joined: 08/22/2001 Status: Offline Share Posted December 26, 2002 Hi Commentor, I went to their website and find the articles they have very interesting. What is their statement of believe? They never mentioned the Holy Spirit? Do they believe in the Trininty? A long time ago I remember I listened to the radio to their program when I couldn't sleep (alot of times) and Fishman is right, they do put a different spin on alot of things. I wouldn't get involved with their ministry,but the news articles are very good!! :lightbulb: God Bless,Angels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catsmeow Posted December 26, 2002 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 439 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 7,315 Content Per Day: 0.93 Reputation: 356 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/21/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted December 26, 2002 Hi, Angel! Cat here...What kind of spin? I'm asking because their statement of faith sounds pretty OK, but I did notice they didn't mention the Holy Spirit. ??? Maybe they don't like charismatics, eh? *( just kiddin' arround here...lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angels4u Posted December 29, 2002 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 55 Topic Count: 1,664 Topics Per Day: 0.20 Content Count: 19,764 Content Per Day: 2.38 Reputation: 12,164 Days Won: 28 Joined: 08/22/2001 Status: Offline Share Posted December 29, 2002 Hi Cat, Here is one article about Irvin Baxter, Irvin Baxter I once met Irvin Baxter in Des Moines, Iowa. A friend invited me to see the man. At first he seemed to have some interesting information, but it didn't take long for his lecture to drift into the world of the strange and bizarre. I was so shocked by what I heard, I vowed to use extreme caution when listening to any unfamiliar prophecy speakers. Irvin Baxter is affiliated with the United Pentecostal Church, a group that denies the doctrine of the Trinity and believes its methods are the only true way to salvation. David Reagan of Lamb and lion Ministries did a wonderful job of detailing some of Baxter's twisted views of prophecy. Here is what Mr. Reagan wrote after visiting Baxter's website: It doesn't take long to discover that Mr. Baxter is a person with a very personal and unique interpretation of Bible prophecy, something we are warned against in the Scriptures (2 Peter 1:20). It would take more space than I have available to summarize and counter all of Mr. Baxter's unusual interpretations of prophecy, so I will mention only a few. He denies that Revelation is written in chronological order. He does not, therefore, believe that the Seal Judgments will be followed by the Trumpet Judgments during the first three and one-half years of the Tribulation - as the plain sense meaning of Revelation indicates. He takes this position because he argues that several of both the Seal Judgments and the Trumpet Judgments have already taken place! The normal, plain sense interpretation of Revelation 6 is that it marks the beginning of the Tribulation with the Antichrist going forth on a white horse to conquer the world. A world war ensues, and one-fourth of the world's population dies from war (the red horse), famine (the black horse), pestilence and wild beasts. Mr. Baxter argues that the fulfillment of the Seal Judgments has nothing to do with the Tribulation. He asserts that the fulfillment of these judgments began in 325 AD when the Emperor Constantine presided over a Church Council that produced the Nicene Creed (a creed, interestingly enough, that laid the foundation for the doctrine of the Trinity). In short, he identifies the white horse of Revelation 6 as Roman Catholicism, the black horse as Capitalism, and the red horse as Communism. This all makes for very interesting reading, but it simply is not sustained by the text, for it violates the plain sense meaning. Another example of Baxter's off-the-wall style of interpretation is found in his assertion that the world empires revealed to Daniel in Daniel 2 include the Holy Roman Empire. He sees the succession as Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, the Roman Empire, and the Holy Roman Empire. That is not the succession portrayed in Daniel 2. The Roman Empire is followed by an empire of iron mixed with clay - representing the unstable, final world empire of the Antichrist. The proof that this is the last empire of history is found in the fact that this is the empire that is suddenly destroyed by a stone that represents the kingdom of Jesus Christ when He returns. There is no place in the scenario for the Holy Roman Empire, which was an empire in name only. Baxter tries to insert the Holy Roman Empire because he wants to argue that it is the one that will be revived in the end times, rather than the Roman Empire. And he tries to advance this argument so that he can sustain his contention that the "fatal would that will be healed," referred to in Revelation 13:3, is a reference to the Berlin Wall being removed so that Germany (which was the heart of the Holy Roman Empire) could be reunited. Mr. Baxter does further damage to the book of Daniel when he contends that the symbols used in chapter 7 refer to Great Britain, Russian, and Germany. Again, this runs contrary to the plain sense meaning of the passage. In Daniel 7, God gives Daniel a vision of the same succession of empires as he was given in chapter 2. The difference is that in chapter 2 they are seen from the viewpoint of Man - as glorious political kingdoms - whereas in chapter 7 they are presented from the viewpoint of God - as ravenous wild beasts. One of the strangest statements on Mr. Baxter's website concerns the Rapture. In response to a question about the timing of the Rapture, he says, "Unfortunately, rapture timing debates between brothers in Christ often become divisive, and for this reason, Entime has chosen to avoid the issue for now." I was astonished by this non-answer. Here is a person with an opinion on everything in the prophetic scriptures, yet he chooses to "avoid" one of the most important issues! It didn't make any sense to me. I was even more astonished when I continued reading, for in the very next paragraph, Mr. Baxter states that he believes that the Rapture and the Second Coming are "the same event." Well, if they are the same event, then the Rapture must take place at the end of the Tribulation - so much for "avoiding" the issue. To sustain this position, Mr. Baxter proceeds to try to explain away some passages that imply a pre-Tribulation Rapture. In doing so, he presents the most peculiar and bizarre interpretation of 2 Thessalonians 2 that I have ever run across. The passage states that the Antichrist cannot be revealed until that which restrains him is removed. I believe this is talking about the Church since the Church is the entity that the Holy Spirit works through to restrain evil in the world. Mr. Baxter contends that the restrainer is "time." Yes, time! It's just not the right time for the Antichrist to be revealed, he says, and when the time is right, the revelation will occur. Well, I would agree with that, but the statement fails to deal with the question of what is going to be removed? How do you remove time? Mr. Baxter' approach to prophetic interpretation makes it clear why the plain sense meaning rule is so important. That rule states: "If the plain sense makes sense, don't look for any other sense, or you will end up with nonsense." As with Mr. Baxter, you will end up with a very personal interpretation that no other prophecy teacher is willing to endorse. I urge caution with regard to Mr. Baxter and his unique interpretations. Remember 1 Peter 1:20 - "No prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation." Frank Stagg in his book, How to Understand the Bible, says, "God does not grant private disclosures that are withheld from other people." 1 Corinthians 14:29 says that when a prophet speaks, his words are to be evaluated by others, for "the spirits of prophets are subject to prophets" (1 Corinthians 14:32). This essay has been written in the spirit of that admonition. I am thankful that Mr. Baxter is emphasizing the Lord's soon return, but at the same time I urge great caution regarding his very personal interpretations of Bible prophecy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abbershay Posted December 29, 2002 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 49 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 562 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/03/2002 Status: Offline Author Share Posted December 29, 2002 I just want to say that you did a most excellent job ...... fair without being condemming..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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